U.K. Doctors Could Soon Face Action over "Misleading" Social Media Posts

[Wildswanderer]

Of course one only takes medicine when necessary. The problem is that science deniers often do not understand "when necessary'. There is a lot that one can do with proper diet and exercise. But one cannot always do everything. People quite often need modern medicine, and the older that they get the more likely it is that they will need it.

Im not against medicine. But it's overused. They tend to treat the symptoms not the actual problems also.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All a study is is a bunch of anecdotes put together. If it's a 300 person trial, it's enough for a study but if you have millions claiming side effects in this case it's ignored... doesn't make sense.

No, it really is not. Please, you are only painting yourself as a science denier more and more.

Mediccal studies have to be statistically significant to claim to have results. That means that they are not just anecdotes. You may be projecting here because that is all that science deniers have.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Im not against medicine. But it's overused. They tend to treat the symptoms not the actual problems also.

Do you have evidenced that supports that claim? And how do you know what they treat and what they don't? I will even grant that obesity can be the cause of many problems. How do you treat obesity? People get overweight often because they refuse to eat and exercise properly. How do you force them to do that?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you have evidenced that supports that claim? And how do you know what they treat and what they don't? I will even grant that obesity can be the cause of many problems. How do you treat obesity? People get overweight often because they refuse to eat and exercise properly. How do you force them to do that?

You tell them that proper eating and exercise is the only way to get better. You don't prescribe pills.
Not just obesity in general but overprocessed foods are a big reason why people are unhealthy.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No, it really is not. Please, you are only painting yourself as a science denier more and more.

Mediccal studies have to be statistically significant to claim to have results. That means that they are not just anecdotes. You may be projecting here because that is all that science deniers have.

I'm not a science denier. ***STAFF EDIT*** How many people do you know who are vaccinated and got sick anyway? How many still have side effects? These aren't isolated incidents.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You tell them that proper eating and exercise is the only way to get better. You don't prescribe pills.
Not just obesity in general but overprocessed foods are a big reason why people are unhealthy.

But it isn't and it is not guaranteed. A doctor is not supposed to lie to his or her patents. There are many problems totally unrelated to diet and exercise, what do they do then?

Modern medicine can control or help all sorts of problems. People do not have to die painful deaths because we do not know how to treat various diseases.

And you make a lot of claims. They are mostly nonsense. Can you support any of them with proper evidence? If you do not understand what proper evidence would be in the health fields I can help you with that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not a science denier. The science says this vaccine doesn't work well and causes problems. How many people do you know who are vaccinated and got sick anyway? How many still have side effects? These aren't isolated incidents.

You are extremely wrong. The evidence tells us that the vaccines work extremely well and have very minor problems Here is a challenge. See if you can find any scientific evidence for your claims. I will then demonstrate the scientific evidence for mine.

By the way, you should not be telling people that you do not understand how vaccines work ahead of time. It only makes your job harder.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Lots of foods are medicinal. Fish for example.
Maintenance of health happens by proper exercise, eating and taking modern medicine only if necessary.

Fish itself is not a medicine. The medicinal value we derive from fish comes from the omega-3 fatty acids they contain, which our bodies do not produce on their own.
How do we know this? Science!

This doesn't suddenly make "herbal remedies" superior to actual medicine.

 

[SkepticThinker]

All a study is is a bunch of anecdotes put together. If it's a 300 person trial, it's enough for a study but if you have millions claiming side effects in this case it's ignored... doesn't make sense.

No, they're not. Scientific studies are controlled (and tested against placebo). Anecdotes are not. They're just someone's say-so.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So the millions with actual side effects are silenced because, well, because we don't want to hear stories that contradict the official narrative.

I didn't say anything like that at all.

Same thing happens in the medical field in general. If an alternative cure works for a huge percentage we can just ignore that. " Oh it's just anecdotal."

Nonsense.

What's an "alternative cure" anyway? Are we still talking about untested "herbal remedies?"

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn't say anything like that at all.


Nonsense.

What's an "alternative cure" anyway? Are we still talking about untested "herbal remedies?"

Or as Tim Minchin said: "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Only these weren't. They were rushed through. The mass public were the trial phase and then the negative results were largely ignored.

None of the regular steps carried out in clinical trials were skipped or rushed through. What they did do was conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule, so that data could be gathered faster. A lot of people were interested in signing up for these trials, given the situation at the time. It didn't hurt that they already had a decades-worth of mRNA vaccine research under their belts.

And no, the mass public were not the "trial phase." Clinical trials were carried out on tens of thousands of volunteers before the vaccine was released to the public.
Clinical Trial For SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine (COVID-19) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints | Pfizer

But at this point in time, more than 11 billion COVID vaccine shots have been administered worldwide.


As to your claim that COVID vaccines have caused countless miscarriages ... The actual studies don't bear that out. And hey, since you love anecdotes so much, I personally know four women who were vaccinated while pregnant, and later gave birth to healthy babies.
Spontaneous Abortion Following COVID-19 Vaccination During Pregnancy
No indication of an increased risk of miscarriage after vaccination against COVID-19


If a person is pregnant, studies show that contracting COVID is a pretty big health risk:

"Experts emphasize that most pregnant individuals who get Covid-19 do not have severe outcomes, but the risk of requiring hospitalization and death is dramatically higher for pregnant patients with Covid-19 than pregnant patients without. Pregnant patients with Covid were about five times more likely (5.2 percent compared to 0.9 percent) to visit the intensive care unit (ICU) than pregnant patients without Covid, and about 15 times more likely to die in the hospital (0.1 percent versus less than 0.01 percent.) The study did not explore whether the patients were vaccinated."
Seven Things to Know About Covid-19 and Pregnancy | Science| Smithsonian Magazine

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not a science denier. The science says this vaccine doesn't work well and causes problems. How many people do you know who are vaccinated and got sick anyway? How many still have side effects? These aren't isolated incidents.

The science says the exact opposite of that.
In this case, you are a science denier.


"How many people who are vaccinated got sick anyway?"
This sentence shows that you don't know how vaccines are supposed to work. The actual question you should be asking there is, "how many people who were vaccinated ended up hospitalized and/or dead?"

As to your claim about vaccine side effects, are you aware of actual documented long-term side effects from having COVID? It's an actual thing:
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects
DEFINE_ME

Weird how you don't seem to care about that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You tell them that proper eating and exercise is the only way to get better. You don't prescribe pills.
Not just obesity in general but overprocessed foods are a big reason why people are unhealthy.

Thanks Doc!

What do you do if the patient actually needs pills? Oh, maybe they should just take some untested "herbal remedies."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Or as Tim Minchin said: "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine."

LOL I was literally about to post those exact words!

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of the regular steps carried out in clinical trials were skipped or rushed through. What they did do was conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule, so that data could be gathered faster. A lot of people were interested in signing up for these trials, given the situation at the time. It didn't hurt that they already had a decades-worth of mRNA vaccine research under their belts.

And no, the mass public were not the "trial phase." Clinical trials were carried out on tens of thousands of volunteers before the vaccine was released to the public.
Clinical Trial For SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine (COVID-19) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov
Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints | Pfizer

But at this point in time, more than 11 billion COVID vaccine shots have been administered worldwide.


As to your claim that COVID vaccines have caused countless miscarriages ... The actual studies don't bear that out. And hey, since you love anecdotes so much, I personally know four women who were vaccinated while pregnant, and later gave birth to healthy babies.
Spontaneous Abortion Following COVID-19 Vaccination During Pregnancy
No indication of an increased risk of miscarriage after vaccination against COVID-19


If a person is pregnant, studies show that contracting COVID is a pretty big health risk:

"Experts emphasize that most pregnant individuals who get Covid-19 do not have severe outcomes, but the risk of requiring hospitalization and death is dramatically higher for pregnant patients with Covid-19 than pregnant patients without. Pregnant patients with Covid were about five times more likely (5.2 percent compared to 0.9 percent) to visit the intensive care unit (ICU) than pregnant patients without Covid, and about 15 times more likely to die in the hospital (0.1 percent versus less than 0.01 percent.) The study did not explore whether the patients were vaccinated."
Seven Things to Know About Covid-19 and Pregnancy | Science| Smithsonian Magazine

This

And to emphasize a point. One of the reasons that new vaccines usually take a long time to get approved is due to the need to get funding. Usually one has to finish a step in testing. Publish it. Wait while others read and analyze your research, and then after everyone said "Okay" they could try to find funding for next step. That can easily add years. For the vaccines the funding was guaranteed. And as @SkepticThinker pointed out, once a trial was partially done they were able to move ahead and test the next step. By the way, they did not stop the early tests when they moved on. They finished each test since there was a possibility of showing that the medicine did not work or was harmful. But by the time that they were released they had been fully tested.

They were not experimental vaccines. When someone makes the false claim that it was experimental in a debate they have already lost.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This

And to emphasize a point. One of the reasons that new vaccines usually take a long time to get approved is due to the need to get funding. Usually one has to finish a step in testing. Publish it. Wait while others read and analyze your research, and then after everyone said "Okay" they could try to find funding for next step. That can easily add years. For the vaccines the funding was guaranteed. And as @SkepticThinker pointed out, once a trial was partially done they were able to move ahead and test the next step. By the way, they did not stop the early tests when they moved on. They finished each test since there was a possibility of showing that the medicine did not work or was harmful. But by the time that they were released they had been fully tested.

They were not experimental vaccines. When someone makes the false claim that it was experimental in a debate they have already lost.

Yes thank you! I left that part out.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Thanks Doc!

What do you do if the patient actually needs pills? Oh, maybe they should just take some untested "herbal remedies."

Many herbal remedies have been tested by millions of people.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The science says the exact opposite of that.
In this case, you are a science denier.


"How many people who are vaccinated got sick anyway?"
This sentence shows that you don't know how vaccines are supposed to work. The actual question you should be asking there is, "how many people who were vaccinated ended up hospitalized and/or dead?"

As to your claim about vaccine side effects, are you aware of actual documented long-term side effects from having COVID? It's an actual thing:
COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects
DEFINE_ME

Weird how you don't seem to care about that.

Of course I do. Doesn't change what I said.

 

[Wildswanderer]

This

And to emphasize a point. One of the reasons that new vaccines usually take a long time to get approved is due to the need to get funding. Usually one has to finish a step in testing. Publish it. Wait while others read and analyze your research, and then after everyone said "Okay" they could try to find funding for next step. That can easily add years. For the vaccines the funding was guaranteed. And as @SkepticThinker pointed out, once a trial was partially done they were able to move ahead and test the next step. By the way, they did not stop the early tests when they moved on. They finished each test since there was a possibility of showing that the medicine did not work or was harmful. But by the time that they were released they had been fully tested.

They were not experimental vaccines. When someone makes the false claim that it was experimental in a debate they have already lost.

Apparently I'm not allowed to comment further on these issues, so moving on!