• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

UK EU Referendum - Stay in or leave?

mindlight

mindlight

See in the dark
A Greased Scotsman said:
I'm not sure. I get the impression the other members of the EU would be quite glad to see the back of us, to be honest.
Click to expand...

A lot of German people back the idea of reforming the EU. East Europeans are also quite positive about EU membership. Germans on the whole do not want the UK to leave

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...rlaesst-grossbritannien-die-eu-a-1078471.html

Bad, definitely bad. Right now we have a minority-elected Tory government field-stripping away our rights & legal protections with breath-taking abandon:

  1. Unions can only authorise strike action if they have a majority in favour from every member of that union (basically not-voting or not returning your ballot will count as a 'no' to industrial action); where the Tories gained a Parliamentary majority on 37% of the vote (and that's rounding up).
  2. The Tories have recently redefined what child poverty is; and then claimed they're dealing with the problem. They aren't.
  3. They've also redefined what constitutes a 'living wage'. They're now telling us the living wage will be £7.20 - whereas the Living Wage Foundation's calculations show that the actual living wage should be £8.25. It's also worth pointing out that the Conservative Party's new living wage only applies to over-25s. Apparently under-25s aren't as productive as us older folks.
Click to expand...
Scotland and Europe are perhaps both far more socialist than most English people in practice. Maybe BREXIT would also therefore trigger the breakup of the Union. That has to be a factor in considering this question. England would lose the Holyrood nuclear base also and about 10% of its international economic weight with the loss of Scotland also. But effectively the loss of Scotland and Europe would entrench a Tory government for the foreseeable future as the Tories have a natural majority in England and especially with the return of UKIP Defectors.
 
The Emperor of Mankind

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
mindlight said:
A lot of German people back the idea of reforming the EU. East Europeans are also quite positive about EU membership. Germans on the whole do not want the UK to leave

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...rlaesst-grossbritannien-die-eu-a-1078471.html
Click to expand...

Well that's news to me. Thanks for sharing!


Scotland and Europe are perhaps both far more socialist than most English people in practice. Maybe BREXIT would also therefore trigger the breakup of the Union. That has to be a factor in considering this question. England would lose the Holyrood nuclear base also and about 10% of its international economic weight with the loss of Scotland also.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume that in the last sentence you mean the UK when you say "England". The UK would lose 10% of its tax base from citizens; but it'd lose the whisky industry, the oil fields in Scotland's territorial waters etc. It'd lose a lot more than that.

But effectively the loss of Scotland...would entrench a Tory government for the foreseeable future as the Tories have a natural majority in England and especially with the return of UKIP Defectors.
Click to expand...

I've snipped out the part about Europe since they don't actually vote in our General Elections, thus have no influence either way. The rest, however, is completely untrue. Because of the sheer number of seats England has in the Commons compared to everyone else, it doesn't matter what way Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland vote (even collectively). There are 533 seats in England out of 650 total in the UK. England is the sole factor in determining what party is in governance in Westminster.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Since the Uk joined the EU. Every thing we do, every law we have, every agreementand treaty we have, and every regulation we have is completely entwind with that of our partners.. as is every institution.
I can see no reason to suppose that the other members will see any
advantage in giving such disentanglement and re negotiation any priority at all. And certainly not in our favour.

Those countries that have chosen us for inward investment to gain a foothold in the EU, will have to reassess the wisdom of such a position, and look to establishing another way into Europe for themselves.

The UK has never in all its history managed to operate on a self sustainable level. Through out the 18th and 19th centuries into the 20th. It grew wealthy on the power of its Navy and its conquest of what was to become it's empire. Through a system of enforced trade in the form of, manufacturing goods for sale made out of imported raw materials. And from the procedes of the slave trade and sugar, tea and rubber plantations. And the import of Gold silver diamonds, timber and copper, from our colonies.

None of this is available to us to day except at world prices.
Our manufacturing industries are largely foreign owned. Even our aerospace industries are largely component manufacturers for larger international corporations.

Were we to leave the EU it would give foreign companies a field day, in cherry picking among the ruins of our supporting and defunct companies.

We would also have lost any chance of deciding the terms and conditions of trade with the EU. like other countries we will have to meet all their regulations concerning, quality, manufacturing standards, finance and safety.

It will be an extremely costly and fraught process, for which we neither have the capital norr credit, nor any other way to pay for, except taxation and debt.
 
mindlight

mindlight

See in the dark
Spiny Norman said:
I was intrigued by that decision. I believe Boris has got his eye on the top job, and I wonder what his strategy is here?
Click to expand...

George Osborne is in the for camp and Boris in the against. So either choice the Tories have their bases covered when Cameron steps down. Boris as mayor of London is cosmopolitan, as half American he is transAtlantic and as Eton educated aware of some of the finest traditions of the British people including democracy which he claims are being eroded by Europe.

It is possible genuinely believes what he wrote in the Telegraph supporting BREXIT.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-the-change-we-want-vote-to-leave-the-EU.html
 
Last edited:
mindlight

mindlight

See in the dark
Terrywoodenpic said:
Since the Uk joined the EU. Every thing we do, every law we have, every agreementand treaty we have, and every regulation we have is completely entwind with that of our partners.. as is every institution.
I can see no reason to suppose that the other members will see any
advantage in giving such disentanglement and re negotiation any priority at all. And certainly not in our favour.

Those countries that have chosen us for inward investment to gain a foothold in the EU, will have to reassess the wisdom of such a position, and look to establishing another way into Europe for themselves.

The UK has never in all its history managed to operate on a self sustainable level. Through out the 18th and 19th centuries into the 20th. It grew wealthy on the power of its Navy and its conquest of what was to become it's empire. Through a system of enforced trade in the form of, manufacturing goods for sale made out of imported raw materials. And from the procedes of the slave trade and sugar, tea and rubber plantations. And the import of Gold silver diamonds, timber and copper, from our colonies.

None of this is available to us to day except at world prices.
Our manufacturing industries are largely foreign owned. Even our aerospace industries are largely component manufacturers for larger international corporations.

Were we to leave the EU it would give foreign companies a field day, in cherry picking among the ruins of our supporting and defunct companies.

We would also have lost any chance of deciding the terms and conditions of trade with the EU. like other countries we will have to meet all their regulations concerning, quality, manufacturing standards, finance and safety.

It will be an extremely costly and fraught process, for which we neither have the capital norr credit, nor any other way to pay for, except taxation and debt.
Click to expand...

Exactly the ways we recovered in the past from our tendency to consume more than we produce are no longer available if we quit Europe. There is no easy money from colonial conquest or banking investment schemes to save us now. The British capacity to adapt is considerable but overall the costs of leaving seem higher than the benefits here.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Scotland might see their interests better served by leaving the union and joining the EU.

it would generate some interesting employment opportunities for us guarding the border. They, as new members, would be be required to join the schengen area.
 
The Emperor of Mankind

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Terrywoodenpic said:
Scotland might see their interests better served by leaving the union and joining the EU.

it would generate some interesting employment opportunities for us guarding the border. They, as new members, would be be required to join the schengen area.
Click to expand...

Would Scotland leaving the Union dissolving the Common Travel Area between the then rUK, Scotland, Guernsey, Jersey, Eire and Isle of Man? Would Scotland just be kicked out and the area otherwise continue as normal?

I remember the pro-Union camp threatening closed borders and pretty much everything short of armed checkpoints during the indyref. I wonder if we'll see the same again...
 
Sultan Of Swing

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
A Greased Scotsman said:
Would Scotland leaving the Union dissolving the Common Travel Area between the then rUK, Scotland, Guernsey, Jersey, Eire and Isle of Man? Would Scotland just be kicked out and the area otherwise continue as normal?

I remember the pro-Union camp threatening closed borders and pretty much everything short of armed checkpoints during the indyref. I wonder if we'll see the same again...
Click to expand...
If Scotland joins the Schengen area then having borders with Scotland isn't some conceited threat, it's a security necessity.
 
mindlight

mindlight

See in the dark
A Greased Scotsman said:
Would Scotland leaving the Union dissolving the Common Travel Area between the then rUK, Scotland, Guernsey, Jersey, Eire and Isle of Man? Would Scotland just be kicked out and the area otherwise continue as normal?

I remember the pro-Union camp threatening closed borders and pretty much everything short of armed checkpoints during the indyref. I wonder if we'll see the same again...
Click to expand...

The main feature of migration flows is that the people flock to genuine opportunity. Britain and Germany are both creating jobs hence their attractiveness to migrants. But if you look at the British migration patterns you will see that they almost all go to London and the South East. That is the real economic engine of the UK. The Scots economy does not grow as well , has a higher dependency culture and welfare costs. So even as members of the EU I am not sure that they would be a migration destination unless people thought they could get to England through Scotland. Also independence , with the collapse in the price of oil does not really cost out for Scotland regardless of what happens in the EU. It is possible that the Scots would reject independence even like last time and choose to remain in the UK even outside the EU.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top