Ukraine has become a dictatorship, it's official

[Mock Turtle]

Who did it, then?
Morgan le Fay?

One simple question: would you cut off your own penis?

Because that's what the Russians allegedly did: they cut off their vital source of economic support from Germany.

Germany was not going to have any resources from them anyway - as per most other NATO countries - so hardly an issue.

 

[lukethethird]

I doubt if many here believe Putin is on some path as to world domination but I think many might believe that Putin does want to see what the USSR had in the way of territory. Which would go against all those nations that have voted (and seemingly want) to be apart from Russia, and rightfully so, given that Putin doesn't seem capable of understanding the concept of democracy or even wanting such, and where his aims are mostly about his personal concept of Russia regardless if this has any basis in reality. Doing this by his ludicrous - because these peoples speak Russian and therefore belong within the Russian borders - could be applied worldwide as to some also ludicrous situations arising.

So how far would you like to see the roll-back as to what the USSR used to be?

"many might believe that Putin does want to see what the USSR had in the way of territory." Maybe the flat earthers came up with that notion, I don't know.

 

[Mock Turtle]

"many might believe that Putin does want to see what the USSR had in the way of territory." Maybe the flat earthers came up with that notion, I don't know.

His behaviour shows he holds grudges - the deaths of Litvinenko and poisoning attempts in Salisbury with Novichok - so it's hardly strange to find he has a grudge over the fall of the USSR too, and that his ultimate aim might be to reform this.

 

[lukethethird]

I used to side with Ukraine.
Then I watched the interview with Putin by Tucker Carlson...and I found out some servant of the éLites prevented, impeded, hindered the peace process between Russia and Kiev,
So I am disgusted by the warmongers forcing Ukrainians to fight until they all die.

I have always been on the side of peaceful resolutions, warmongers on all sides be damned.

 

[Estro Felino]

I have always been on the side of peaceful resolutions, warmongers on all sides be damned.

Also because my heart bleeds every time a Ukrainian dies, and a Russian dies. In equal measure.

 

[lukethethird]

His behaviour shows he holds grudges - the deaths of Litvinenko and poisoning attempts in Salisbury with Novichok - so it's hardly strange to find he has a grudge over the fall of the USSR too, and that his ultimate aim might be to reform this.

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories. A border dispute between Russia and Ukraine is taking place while the west is exploiting the situation for its own interests. The west always seems to need a bogeyman, real or imagined to pursue its interests.

 

[lukethethird]

By "took with them" you mean "declared independence after overwhelming support in a democratic vote, including the majority of the vote in the eastern regions".

1991 Ukrainian independence referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Those scoundrels. How dare they execute their democratic rights.


"A bloody correction". This is just a flat-out disgusting way of describing an imperialist nation invading its neighbour.

The fact that you continue to pretend - and even convince some posters - that you're anti-imperialist is laughable.


Which is also hilarious.


Because it's wrong to suggest a country is engaging in imperialism if it only engages in a bit of imperialism.

Good logic. Very sound.

Meanwhile, the rest of us reasonable people will continue to believe that Putin doesn't have to necessarily be engaging in an act intended towards total global domination - like a James Bond villain - in order to suggest that invading and annexing a sovereign state on your border is not a reasonable or morally justified thing to do.

Unimaginable, I know.

"declared independence after overwhelming support in a democratic vote, including the majority of the vote in the eastern regions". Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk regions have since voted in referendums to join Russia.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"declared independence after overwhelming support in a democratic vote, including the majority of the vote in the eastern regions". Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk regions have since voted in referendums to join Russia.

You mean, after been invaded by Russia, with no oversight whatsoever and absolutely no suggestion of a secure and fair election?

Makes total sense.

Do you not think it's very odd how you're deliberately downplaying an independence vote carried out with little to no threat of force or foreign invasion with significant oversight, but deliberately playing-up a vote carried out under very direct threat of violence by a foreign army and while effectively under occupation by them?

Weird, that.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories. A border dispute between Russia and Ukraine is taking place while the west is exploiting the situation for its own interests.

"I don't buy into conspiracy theories. Except this one."

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

War zones usually come under martial law. With elections delayed untill peace.
I would not expect Ukraine to be able to hold elections when large tracts of its land is under occupation.

 

[lukethethird]

You mean, after been invaded by Russia, with no oversight whatsoever and absolutely no suggestion of a secure and fair election?

Makes total sense.

Do you not think it's very odd how you're deliberately downplaying an independence vote carried out with little to no threat of force or foreign invasion with significant oversight, but deliberately playing-up a vote carried out under very direct threat of violence by a foreign army and while effectively under occupation by them?

Weird, that.

Of course these processes are only democratic when it suits you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Of course these processes are only democratic when it suits you.

You mean, like when they're not under direct duress from a foreign invading army and the vote is carried out with no independent oversight?

You're right. What an unreasonable standard. Meanwhile, your standard, which is "votes carried out under violent duress with no oversight are fine, but votes carried out with substantial scrutiny and independent oversight are worthless" is perfectly reasonable.

 

[lukethethird]

You mean, like when they're not under direct duress from a foreign invading army and the vote is carried out with no independent oversight?

You're right. What an unreasonable standard. Meanwhile, your standard, which is "votes carried out under violent duress with no oversight are fine, but votes carried out with substantial scrutiny and independent oversight are worthless" is perfectly reasonable.

Whatever suits you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Whatever suits you.

Well, clearly not imperialism. That seems to suit you better.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have always been on the side of peaceful resolutions, warmongers on all sides be damned.

Peaceful resolutions, sure... but at what expense?
If one side insists on fighting unless it gets its way, do you then just give it its way - whatever that may be?

Or are there sometimes things worth fighting for?

 

[Estro Felino]

The funny thing is that I was hoping that the disastrous electoral defeat would push some elitist leftist party to embrace the pacifist approach.
No...they want to undo-themselves.

...completely.
People want peace. Crave for peace.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't buy into the conspiracy theories. A border dispute between Russia and Ukraine is taking place while the west is exploiting the situation for its own interests. The west always seems to need a bogeyman, real or imagined to pursue its interests.

It's not a border dispute. It's Russia trying to take over Ukraine. Even if you just mean the Donbas region, that's only an armed conflict because Russia supported a very marginal group who wanted to break away from Ukraine.

The west is supporting Ukraine against the invading Russians. Sometimes western countries create bogeymen. Sometimes they create their own enemies. In this case, Putin and Russia don't need help in that department. The west didn't create him; he is a bogeyman because he's genuinely a dictator who wants more power and land.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's not a border dispute. It's Russia trying to take over Ukraine. Even if you just mean the Donbas region, that's only an armed conflict because Russia supported a very marginal group who wanted to break away from Ukraine.

The west is supporting Ukraine against the invading Russians. Sometimes western countries create bogeymen. Sometimes they create their own enemies. In this case, Putin and Russia don't need help in that department. The west didn't create him; he is a bogeyman because he's genuinely a dictator who wants more power and land.

I imagine that Russia wants to conquer all of Europe, besides Ukraine, right?
Including Italy?

 

[Magic Man]

I imagine that Russia wants to conquer all of Europe, besides Ukraine, right?
Including Italy?

I'm not sure he's quite that ambitious, but I'm sure he'd go for it, if he deemed it possible.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm not sure he's quite that ambitious, but I'm sure he'd go for it, if he deemed it possible.

Putin has never wanted to conquer any European country.