Ukraine has become a dictatorship, it's official

[Estro Felino]

Russia doesn't allow it.

There must be a ceasefire first, I guess.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am from Flanders, so not sure who "you guys" is supposed to be.
I can assure you that more people in Flanders want independence then people in Donbas.
I'm not one of them.

You speak French, right?
You can always move to Wallonie, if you don't like an independent Flanders.

 

[Magic Man]

Mr Zely has never done any referendum.
A referendum like "do you want the war to continue, or do you want peace with Russia".

Democracy and Zely are as distant as me and Leonardo Di Caprio (my love).

And again, you criticize Zelenskyy for things you love Putin for. Tell me again that you don't like double standards.

 

[Stevicus]

You're absolutely incorrect on this point. I am stating facts. Continuing to make false claims won't magically make them true.

I see no need to read any further.

 

[Stevicus]

Done. I did that before I started posting. Now it would be best for you to stop defending Russia.

I never started.

But even if I had been, what's it to you? Do you think I'm some kind of Russian agent or something?

 

[lukethethird]

Isn't it ironic that neo-nazi's in europe are in fact russian sympathisers?
They are against aid for ukraine, against sactions against russia and swallow the russian propaganda like it's candy.

You should think things through.

If Ukraine was indeed ruled by neo-nazi's, and if the attack of Russia against Ukraine really was about that, then the neo-nazi's of Europe would be up in arms about it.
Instead, these neo-nazi's are the only allies Putin has in Europe.

Why is it that the Kremlin rejoices when neo-nazi's in Europe win elections?
Why does Orban visit Moscow?

You should pay more attention

Most nazis despise Russians. A cursory understanding of events of the second world war would make that obvious as to why.

 

[lukethethird]

What's asinine is blatantly not understanding that criticizing Ukraine is clearly a way to softly justify Russia's invasion. Sure, it's possible to criticize Ukraine without defending Russia, but that's not what's happening. This thread is specifically a criticism of Ukraine in an attempt to justify the invasion.

Oh! Sorry, I didn't realize you said "not really"! Well, obviously that's a COMPLETELY different thing! It's funny to me that you actually typed this out and hit post thinking it made sense.

Your little rant has become very tiresome, not to mention tedious.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think answering questions should be something mutual.

Then you should answer more of the ones posed to you.

 

[Magic Man]

I see no need to read any further.

Correct. That's all that needs to be said. I provide facts, and you pretend they're opinions because you don't like being corrected.

 

[Magic Man]

I never started.

But even if I had been, what's it to you? Do you think I'm some kind of Russian agent or something?

You did. You started with that whole "they're just defending themselves!" nonsense. What it is to me is you spreading false information that defends Russia and its invasion in an inaccurate way. I prefer to have the actual facts out there, rather than misinformation.

 

[Magic Man]

Your little rant has become very tiresome, not to mention tedious.

Your attempts to dismiss legitimate criticisms and corrections has become very tiresome, not to mention tedious. Your false rhetoric became tiresome and tedious a long time ago. So, if you're tired of it, good. Just stop.

 

[Estro Felino]

Then you should answer more of the ones posed to you.

Ask away.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ask away.

I'd prefer that you just address the
unanswered questions I'd already posed.
Offhand, I don't recall what they were.
But hereafter, you could strive to answer
all new ones posed.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'd prefer that you just address the
unanswered questions I'd already posed.
Offhand, I don't recall what they were.
But hereafter, you could strive to answer
all new ones posed.

Or you can answer mine, for once.
For example: if USA invaded Serbia to rescue Sovors, why can't Russia save Ukraine to rescue Donbas people?

 

[Revoltingest]

Or you can answer mine, for once.

I don't answer specious questions that pursue whataboutism.
This should not excuse your ignoring questions relevant
to the issue under discussion.

 

[lukethethird]

I see no need to read any further.

Me too. I was warned about the medieval mindset a long time ago by a school teacher of mine. There are lessons to be had here in the psychology of belief. They are more revealing than the actual discussion at hand.

 

[Kathryn]

You might want to brush up on history.

Russia first had a pact with Hitler. They didn't mind Nazi's at all.
They only started fighting when Hitler invaded Russia.

Before Nazi Germany invaded Russia, the Soviet Union was its ally in the war against Poland.

They didn't mind Nazi ideology at all. They minded being attacked.

I don't need to brush up on history, but thanks ever so. The fact remains that they ended up being our ally and they lost millions and millions of people.

 

[Kathryn]

We already know those from the russian state propaganda.

It's lies upon lies upon lies.

Source please? Thanks.

 

[oldbadger]

The presidential elections were scheduled for March 31st, but they will not be held.
And please, spare me the martial law thing: a wartime can even last twenty years. That would make twenty years of martial law.
And by the way, martial law is itself, dictatorship, because there is no democratic vote.

Look at Russia. They are at war, but they still held elections.

So........what?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I know what most of the western press reports about the maidan coup. Western corporate media elites share the same elitist interests as the politicians they protect. Wikipedia contradicts itself, it is not reliable half the time when it comes to topics such as religion and politics.

• Which brings Cohen to another prevailing media myth: that what occurred on Maidan in February 2014 was a “democratic revolution.” Whether it was in fact a “revolution” can be left to future historians, though most of the oligarchic powers that afflicted Ukraine before 2014 remain in place four years later, along with their corrupt practices. As for “democratic,” removing a legally elected president by threatening his life hardly qualifies. Nor does the peremptory way the new government was formed, the constitution changed, and pro-Yanukovych parties banned. Though the overthrow involved people in the streets, this was a coup. How much of it was spontaneous and how much directed, or inspired, by high-level actors in the West also remains unclear. But one other myth needs to be dispelled. The rush to seize Yanukovych’s residence was triggered by snipers who killed some 80 or more protesters and policemen on Maidan. It was long said that the snipers had been sent by Yanukovych, but it has now been virtually proven that the shooters were instead from the neofascist group Right Sector among the protesters on the square. (See, for example, the reports of the scholar Ivan Katchanovski.) bold is mine

Curious how this person apparently decided to omit literally all the events leading up to the revolution. i.e: deliberately omitting the reasons why the protests happened. Seems pretty weird. Also notice the language "How much of it was spontaneous and how much directed, or inspired, by high-level actors in the West also remains unclear", which might as well just read "There is literally no evidence to suggest this was directed in any way by 'the West', but I want to leave the implication that it definitely was".

I mean, seriously, is this the best you've got? Some guy saying "Well, he may have enacted a lot of draconian laws, been accused of massive state corruption, failed to follow through on multiple campaign promises, enforced closer ties with an imperialist neighbour (under the instruction of the imperialist neighbour), brought in foreign soldiers to kill his own people, attempt to shut down opposition parties and enact censorship laws that were draconian by any reasonable standard, but he WAS voted in democratically, so the fact that people ousted him was wrong".

Also, incidentally, here is a full UN briefing into the killings of protesters that directly identifies over a dozen Russian agents:

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2021-01/Briefing%20note%20on%20Maidan%20investigations%20ENG%20final.pdf

Pathetic.

Ivan Katchanovski​

The 'Snipers' Massacre' on the Maidan in Ukraine

This academic investigation concludes that the massacre was a false flag operation, which was rationally planned and carried out with a goal of the overthrow of the government and seizure of power. It found various evidence of the involvement of an alliance of the far right organizations, specifically the Right Sector and Svoboda, and oligarchic parties, such as Fatherland. Concealed shooters and spotters were located in at least 20 Maidan-controlled buildings or areas. The various evidence that the protesters were killed from these locations include some 70 testimonies, primarily by Maidan protesters, several videos of “snipers” targeting protesters from these buildings, comparisons of positions of the specific protesters at the time of their killing and their entry wounds, and bullet impact signs. The study uncovered various videos and photos of armed Maidan “snipers” and spotters in many of these buildings.

The paper presents implications of these findings for understanding the nature of the change of the government in Ukraine, the civil war in Donbas, Russian military intervention in Crimea and Donbas, and an international conflict between the West and Russia over Ukraine.

You will literally just accept any conspiratorial nonsense that backs-up your pro-imperialist position.

Try mixing in some factual reporting with the garbage tankie nonsense you read every once in a while. Funnily enough, the only sources I can find at the time alleging this was all a false-flag or a Western-backed coup are (surprise, surprise) RUSSIAN. Gee, I wonder why this "scholar" would publish a paper like this?

You're really bad at this whole "propaganda" thing.

Once again 108 protesters lost their lives to the police and Russian-backed agents, and you deliberately omit them from any analysis about the revolution in Ukraine. Why?