Ukraine has become a dictatorship, it's official

[TagliatelliMonster]

Mr Zely has never done any referendum.
A referendum like "do you want the war to continue, or do you want peace with Russia".

Democracy and Zely are as distant as me and Leonardo Di Caprio (my love).

Whatboutism.


Did Putin do a referendum to see if Russian would like to invade Ukraine?
Did Belgium, France, Poland, etc do a referendum like "do you want the war to continue, or do you want peace with Hitler"?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There must be a ceasefire first, I guess.

Then they still don't allow it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You speak French, right?
You can always move to Wallonie, if you don't like an independent Flanders.

No.

 

[lukethethird]

Curious how this person apparently decided to omit literally all the events leading up to the revolution. i.e: deliberately omitting the reasons why the protests happened. Seems pretty weird. Also notice the language "How much of it was spontaneous and how much directed, or inspired, by high-level actors in the West also remains unclear", which might as well just read "There is literally no evidence to suggest this was directed in any way by 'the West', but I want to leave the implication that it definitely was".

I mean, seriously, is this the best you've got? Some guy saying "Well, he may have enacted a lot of draconian laws, been accused of massive state corruption, failed to follow through on multiple campaign promises, enforced closer ties with an imperialist neighbour (under the instruction of the imperialist neighbour), brought in foreign soldiers to kill his own people, attempt to shut down opposition parties and enact censorship laws that were draconian by any reasonable standard, but he WAS voted in democratically, so the fact that people ousted him was wrong".

Also, incidentally, here is a full UN briefing into the killings of protesters that directly identifies over a dozen Russian agents:

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2021-01/Briefing%20note%20on%20Maidan%20investigations%20ENG%20final.pdf

Pathetic.


You will literally just accept any conspiratorial nonsense that backs-up your pro-imperialist position.

Try mixing in some factual reporting with the garbage tankie nonsense you read every once in a while. Funnily enough, the only sources I can find at the time alleging this was all a false-flag or a Western-backed coup are (surprise, surprise) RUSSIAN. Gee, I wonder why this "scholar" would publish a paper like this?

You're really bad at this whole "propaganda" thing.

Once again 108 protesters lost their lives to the police and Russian-backed agents, and you deliberately omit them from any analysis about the revolution in Ukraine. Why?

I totally expected you to double down on your beliefs when confronted with new information, religious fundamentalist mindsets, gotta luv em.

 

[Revoltingest]

So........what?

Her point is that Russia is a thriving democracy
that adheres faithfully to its own laws.
Also, Putin is a lovable hunk, as is Trump.

 

[Magic Man]

This seems like a good time to repost this:

I feel like there should be a post here laying out the situation factually. Here's the source.

1) Ukraine publicly stated they want to join NATO, which was met with Russian aggression. Russia has acted aggressively toward other countries in the area who wanted to join NATO too, like Georgia.

2) Tensions came to a head in 2014 after Ukrainians ousted a Russia-aligned president. Russia – under the dubious claim of protecting ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers from Ukrainian persecution – annexed the Crimea region of Ukraine in a move widely condemned by the international community.

3) At about the same time, Russia fomented dissension in the Donbas area of eastern Ukraine, backing a separatist movement in the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk that resulted in armed conflict.

4) Putin recognized the Russian-backed breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, both located in the disputed Donbas area, as “independent” people’s republics and ordered so-called “peacekeeping” troops into those areas.

5) Russia amassed tens of thousands of troops along the border of Ukraine.

6) Biden talked to Putin twice. NATO and the UN Security Council tried to de-escalate.

7) Putin, specifically, does not want Ukraine to join NATO “not because he has some principled disagreement related to the rule of law or something, it's because he has a might makes right model,” adds Bradley Bowman, the senior director of the Center on Military and Political Power at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a non-partisan research institute focused on national security and foreign policy.
“He believes, ‘Hey, Ukraine, I'm more powerful than you, and because I'm more powerful than you, Ukraine, I can tell you what to do and with whom to associate,’” Bowman says.

8) Russia invades.

 

[oldbadger]

Her point is that Russia is a thriving democracy
that adheres faithfully to its own laws.
Also, Putin is a lovable hunk, as is Trump.

 

[oldbadger]

Her point is that Russia is a thriving democracy
that adheres faithfully to its own laws.
Also, Putin is a lovable hunk, as is Trump.

Whhaaaaatttt?!!!!
You missed out N.Korea's Kim baby.....cuddly or what?

Oh well....ok...... I guess it takes all kinds of folks to make a world.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I totally expected you to double down on your beliefs when confronted with new information, religious fundamentalist mindsets, gotta luv em.

By "new information" you mean "the opinion of one person".

Meanwhile, your reaction to new information was literally to deny those facts exist.

 

[lukethethird]

By "new information" you mean "the opinion of one person".

Meanwhile, your reaction to new information was literally to deny those facts exist.

The following is an opinion followed by just some of the facts. A link to facts as they happened provided below, "white hats versus black hats" indeed.



"The propaganda frame that Western politicians and media use to explain the war is a classic "white hats versus black hats" narrative: Russia's guilt for the invasion doubles as proof of the West's innocence and righteousness."

• "The 2015 Minsk II peace accord achieved a stable ceasefire line and steady reductions in casualties, but Ukraine failed to grant autonomy to Donetsk and Luhansk as agreed. Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel and former French President François Hollande now admit that Western leaders only supported Minsk II to buy time for NATO to arm and train Ukraine's military to recover Donbas by force."
• 
  
  • During the week before the invasion, OSCE monitors in Donbas documented a huge escalation in explosions around the ceasefire line. Most of the 4,093 explosions in four days were in rebel-held territory, indicating incoming shell-fire by Ukrainian government forces. U.S. and British officials claimed these were "false flag" attacks, as if Donetsk and Luhansk's forces were shelling themselves, just as they later suggested that Russia blew up its own pipelines.
• After the invasion, instead of supporting Ukraine's efforts to make peace, the U.S. and U.K. blocked or stopped them in their tracks. Boris Johnson said they saw a chance to "press" Russia and wanted to make the most of it, and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said their goal was to "weaken" Russia.

• https://www.salon.com/2023/02/14/media-spin-and-politicians-lies-are-fueling-a-bloody-of-attrition-in-ukraine/

Reporting that the neo-Nazi Right Sector was at the forefront of the violent overthrow, The New York Times (NewsGuard green check) wrote earlier that day:​

“Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of Right Sector, a coalition of hard-line nationalist groups, reacted defiantly to news of the settlement, drawing more cheers from the crowd.
‘The agreements that were reached do not correspond to our aspirations,’ he said. ‘Right Sector will not lay down arms. Right Sector will not lift the blockade of a single administrative building until our main demand is met — the resignation of Yanukovych.’ He added that he and his supporters were ‘ready to take responsibility for the further development of the revolution.’ The crowd shouted: ‘Good! Good!’

Evidence of US-Backed Coup in Kiev Evidence of US-Backed Coup in Kiev​

 

[oldbadger]

The presidential elections were scheduled for March 31st, but they will not be held.
And please, spare me the martial law thing: a wartime can even last twenty years. That would make twenty years of martial law.
And by the way, martial law is itself, dictatorship, because there is no democratic vote.

Look at Russia. They are at war, but they still held elections.

Do you think that the Russian elections were fair and impartial?

Where do you live?

 

[беспокойный путешественни]

The strange dichotomy of "free elections or dictatorship" does surprise me a little in a sub-forum on European politics. Or did you vote for Ursula von der Leyen?

 

[Estro Felino]

The strange dichotomy of "free elections or dictatorship" does surprise me a little in a sub-forum on European politics. Or did you vote for Ursula von der Leyen?

No. The EU is a technocratic dictatorship.

 

[Estro Felino]

This seems like a good time to repost this:

I feel like there should be a post here laying out the situation factually. Here's the source.

1) Ukraine publicly stated they want to join NATO, which was met with Russian aggression. Russia has acted aggressively toward other countries in the area who wanted to join NATO too, like Georgia.

2) Tensions came to a head in 2014 after Ukrainians ousted a Russia-aligned president. Russia – under the dubious claim of protecting ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers from Ukrainian persecution – annexed the Crimea region of Ukraine in a move widely condemned by the international community.

3) At about the same time, Russia fomented dissension in the Donbas area of eastern Ukraine, backing a separatist movement in the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk that resulted in armed conflict.

4) Putin recognized the Russian-backed breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, both located in the disputed Donbas area, as “independent” people’s republics and ordered so-called “peacekeeping” troops into those areas.

5) Russia amassed tens of thousands of troops along the border of Ukraine.

6) Biden talked to Putin twice. NATO and the UN Security Council tried to de-escalate.

7) Putin, specifically, does not want Ukraine to join NATO “not because he has some principled disagreement related to the rule of law or something, it's because he has a might makes right model,” adds Bradley Bowman, the senior director of the Center on Military and Political Power at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a non-partisan research institute focused on national security and foreign policy.
“He believes, ‘Hey, Ukraine, I'm more powerful than you, and because I'm more powerful than you, Ukraine, I can tell you what to do and with whom to associate,’” Bowman says.

8) Russia invades.

Here a video of Zelenskyy.
Find me a positive comment below the video. Just one.

 

[Magic Man]

Here a video of Zelenskyy.
Find me a positive comment below the video. Just one.

Ah, yes, the videos. And you don't seem to understand the difference between comments on YouTube videos and the views of the general populace. You also ignore the fact that there is a concerted Russian disinformation/trolling effort online.

 

[Estro Felino]

Ah, yes, the videos. And you don't seem to understand the difference between comments on YouTube videos and the views of the general populace. You also ignore the fact that there is a concerted Russian disinformation/trolling effort online.

With all due respect...but I have already told you that Putin said: "in Italy there hasn't been that caveman-like russophobia there has been in other countries". So those comments explain it.

 

[Magic Man]

With all due respect...but I have already told you that Putin said: "in Italy there hasn't been that caveman-like russophobia there has been in other countries". So those comments explain it.

With all due respect, I have already told you that I don't buy into Putin's propaganda like you do, so I don't care what he has to say about anything, because, you know, all he does is spread misinformation to pump himself and Russia up.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Here a video of Zelenskyy.
Find me a positive comment below the video. Just one.

What type of comments you find on a youtube video is in general influenced very heavily by all kinds of things

So to pretend this is somehow representative of general public opinion or statistically relevant in any way, is delusional at best and dishonest at worst.

 

[Estro Felino]

What type of comments you find on a youtube video is in general influenced very heavily by all kinds of things

So to pretend this is somehow representative of general public opinion or statistically relevant in any way, is delusional at best and dishonest at worst.

Isn"t it delusional to believe that his people loves him?
His people hates him.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Isn"t it delusional to believe that his people loves him?
His people hates him.

More baseless assertions.

First of all, I didn't make that claim... I was just responding to your own insinuation about the youtube comment section pretending it can be extrapolated towards larger public opinion statistics. So why you even bring this up is a mystery in and of itself.

Secondly...
Show me statistics that demonstrate this.
Last I checked, he still had approval ratings of well over 65%.
This is in direct contradiction with your bare claims.