UN Human Rights compared to Islamic Human Rights

[icehorse]

So, by your measure, are we to consider Catholics a lewd bunch of child molesters?

This seems like a change of topics, but okay, yes, I think much of the Catholic clergy are reprehensible pedophiles.

 

[icehorse]

Are you people blind? He's posted links at least twice! The OIC has even signed the UN declaration of LBGT rights, which I found very quickly following his links that ya'll can't see right in front of your faces.

Shadow Wolf, I always reserve the right to be wrong I looked at the links steeltoes provided, and I was not able to find the spot where the OIC abandoned the CDHRI. If you can point me to it, I'd be grateful.

 

[YmirGF]

Shadow Wolf, I always reserve the right to be wrong I looked at the links steeltoes provided, and I was not able to find the spot where the OIC abandoned the CDHRI. If you can point me to it, I'd be grateful.

Well, at least both of us are confused about this claim. I read the link fairly closely and didn't see any reference to the abandoning of the CDHRI thingy.

 

[paarsurrey]

Islam claims to be a total solution to life. Islam is not just religion (as you well know). So what powerful Muslims *do* in the real world - in the name of Islam - must be considered to be a part of Islam. You don't get to choose the parts you like. The Cairo Declaration was made - in the name of Islam.

Islam claims to be a total solution to life

Please quote from Quran in this connection.

Regards

 

[icehorse]

Please quote from Quran in this connection.

Regards

Hi paarsurrey, Are you of the opinion that the Hadith do not need to be considered when discussing Islam? I'm aware that some Muslims believe that ALL of Islam is contained in the Quran, but my understanding is that MOST Muslims believe that Islam can only be described by using the Quran and the Hadith in combination.

Which approach do you believe in?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi paarsurrey, Are you of the opinion that the Hadith do not need to be considered when discussing Islam? I'm aware that some Muslims believe that ALL of Islam is contained in the Quran, but my understanding is that MOST Muslims believe that Islam can only be described by using the Quran and the Hadith in combination.

Which approach do you believe in?

Hadith did not exist in the time of Muhammad. It was collected 250/300 years after Muhammad. Like all other supportive disciplines Hadith is useful but is accepted if it does not mention something that differs with Quran. Everything for guidance in ethical, moral and spiritual domains is mentioned in Quran and Hadith cannot supersede Quran.

Regards

 

[icehorse]

Hadith did not exist in the time of Muhammad. It was collected 250/300 years after Muhammad. Like all other supportive disciplines Hadith is useful but is accepted if it does not mention something that differs with Quran. Everything for guidance in ethical, moral and spiritual domains is mentioned in Quran and Hadith cannot supersede Quran.

Regards

I think many Muslims would disagree with you. For example, isn't it true that many parts of Sharia are based on the Hadith?

 

[oldbadger]

I disagree.

Elst you couldn't have gotten away with saying what you did.

Hi...... Jaiket is right about Human Rights becoming more unpopular by the day in the UK. You would be surprised about how many Brits want the EU Human Rights Law and the Brit Human Rights Act to be scrapped. True. 'Tis true.
I like the Brit HR Act, but because Judges have refused to eject certain criminals from the UK because they might be in danger if they are sent home, loads of Brits campaigned for our HR Act to be repealed!

 

[oldbadger]

.........................

Quite simply, very few people even want universal rights at all.

...and there you have it, in a nutshell!
People only want Human Rights when it suits them!
For instance, relatives of a road crash death-victim where the other driver was at fault often want the convicted driver to be given a prison sentence which exceeds a double-murderers.... true!
And when newspaper readers see that a nasty convict is to get a new flat-screen telly in his cell and double prridge for breakfast they go mad!

Human Rights? Blow hot, blow cold.

And it's up to theocracies to build their HR policies upon their laws, not ours. If we don't like it, then we shouldn't go there.

 

[icehorse]

...and there you have it, in a nutshell!
People only want Human Rights when it suits them!...

Human Rights? Blow hot, blow cold.

And it's up to theocracies to build their HR policies upon their laws, not ours. If we don't like it, then we shouldn't go there.

Where's this "there" you mention? You got a separate planet you're not telling anyone about? Or do you imagine that honor killings in Pakistan don't impact you?

 

[oldbadger]

Where's this "there" you mention? You got a separate planet you're not telling anyone about? Or do you imagine that honor killings in Pakistan don't impact you?

The 'there' that I refer to is the UK, where the HR Act and EU HR legislation has been heavily criticised by many.

I like the UK HR Act. I have repeatedly debated on RF against honour attacks, forced marriage and oppressive education in the UK.

Now, less of the sarcasm and come to the point...... you don't like Theocratic legislation in Pakistan..... I've got that. Now just tell us what you want to do about it.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Can't understandthe Quranwellwithout knowingthe talk
Especially the reasons come down
For example theincidentbetrayedAishaMohamed
Howyou can understandanyideas
You will not be ableto knowthe meaning of thisverse
Unless you knowtalk
The Muslim opposition to human rights is from the Quran and not just talk

 

[Father Heathen]

And it's up to theocracies to build their HR policies upon their laws, not ours. If we don't like it, then we shouldn't go there.

And what about those who are born there? Should the rest of the world turn a blind eye to the abuses committed against women, homosexuals, and religious minorities in such countries?

 

[xkatz]

"The organisation states that it is "the collective voice of the Muslim world" and works to "safeguard and protect the interests of the Muslim world in the spirit of promoting international peace and harmony".[1]
The OIC has a permanent delegation to the United Nations. The official languages of the OIC are Arabic, English and French." wiki


"In June 2008, the OIC conducted a formal revision of its charter. The revised charter set out to promote human rights, fundamental freedoms, and good governance in all member states. The revisions also removed any mention of the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. Within the revised charter, the OIC has chosen to support the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and international law." wiki


Promoting international peace and harmony, that is so unreasonable, better to bomb the ef out of them.

I see what you mean by "unreasonable demands," obviously the U.S. will have none of it.

Do you have any idea of the human rights records of most of the OIC nations and how the Cairo Declaration is inferior to the UDHR?

Also, I think it's silly and somewhat shameful that we need supranational organization to "declare" what human rights are to begin with.

 

[oldbadger]

And what about those who are born there? Should the rest of the world turn a blind eye to the abuses committed against women, homosexuals, and religious minorities in such countries?

Good question.....
But first we need to sort our own crap out. If you can't think of any atrocities local to our own communities, them come on back and I'll do my best to show some.

 

[Father Heathen]

Good question.....
But first we need to sort our own crap out. If you can't think of any atrocities local to our own communities, them come on back and I'll do my best to show some.

Sure, no society is perfect, but let's not pretend that there aren't vast differences in proportions when it comes to levels of severity and frequency.

 

[oldbadger]

Sure, no society is perfect, but let's not pretend that there aren't vast differences in proportions when it comes to levels of severity and frequency.

OK..... Ask me a question, like 'Oldbadger, do you want to live within a rigid theocracy with very severe restrictions, blah blah....'
Answer:- 'Ummmm.... errr... not today, thankyou.'
But here in the UK we do have big HR difficulties at this time, and I for one would sooner concentrate upon those rather than point fingers at others, that's all.

Here's an example. You mentioned people born into lands where they would or could be repressed, mistreated, with unacceptable degrees of human rights. Now turn it round and ask, 'Are we making it easy enough for such folks to take refuge in our countries?' 'What are we doing to help such people?' Answer: Both our lot and your lot make it very very difficult for all refuge seekers to obtain permanent safety in our countries....... = a HR issue where we could do something but don't.

SandandFoam could tell you a few ideas about UK HR..... better than I could, but equally, if you type something like 'american Indian injustice' into the www you'll probably get a page or two of results.

 

[paarsurrey]

I think many Muslims would disagree with you. For example, isn't it true that many parts of Sharia are based on the Hadith?

Only those traditions or Hadith can form part of Sharia that don't differ with Quran.
You are simply mistaken.

Regards

 

[icehorse]

Hi paarsurrey,

Isn't it true that often the Quran skips over a certain topic and the Hadith is used to fill in these blank areas?

 

[icehorse]

OK..... Ask me a question, like 'Oldbadger, do you want to live within a rigid theocracy with very severe restrictions, blah blah....'
Answer:- 'Ummmm.... errr... not today, thankyou.'
But here in the UK we do have big HR difficulties at this time, and I for one would sooner concentrate upon those rather than point fingers at others, that's all.

Here's an example. You mentioned people born into lands where they would or could be repressed, mistreated, with unacceptable degrees of human rights. Now turn it round and ask, 'Are we making it easy enough for such folks to take refuge in our countries?' 'What are we doing to help such people?' Answer: Both our lot and your lot make it very very difficult for all refuge seekers to obtain permanent safety in our countries....... = a HR issue where we could do something but don't.

SandandFoam could tell you a few ideas about UK HR..... better than I could, but equally, if you type something like 'american Indian injustice' into the www you'll probably get a page or two of results.

Hey there badger,

I'm the first to agree that there are lots of big problems in the world. We're just saying that this is one of them and we shouldn't pretend it's not a problem. And if a person has a mind to, this is perfectly acceptable problem to grapple with.