Unbridled Capitalism is self-destructive

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, but then we could keep posting that "Irony" gif back and forth, since you've made many similarly ironic comments. It's just part of your style. It's irritating but it kind of grows on one after a while.

You will do what calls to you.

 

[Nakosis]

Not only Christians but also atheists (thinkers, mainly) have reached the awareness that the 20th century (and this 21st) have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that economic growth is a good thing. But it cannot be restless and infinite, because we are mortal beings and because we live in a finite world.
So it's like applying limitless and restless criteria on a limited, finite world.
It's absolutely contradictory: unbridled Capitalism benefits from eternal, restless and continuous growth. More people are on Earth, more customers will buy Capitalists' products, and more profit will be made.
But, the more world population grows, the more we need to increase the production of goods and services. The more we need to exploit waters, to raise farm animals, to grow plants, to cut down trees, to deplete seas.
And the more we will increase the production, the more workers we will need, so more and more workforce. More and more millions and millions of workers.
And more and more people on Earth, more and more Capitalism. It's a vicious cycle. A self-destructive vicious cycle because sooner or later all petroleum, all resources, all trees will run out.

Profit Maximization → More workers needed → Population needs to increase → More and more production to support the population growth → more and more workers → more and more population → more and more production → profit maximization

Imagine another scenario: small communities where all cooperate. There is a very limited and state-controlled capitalism. People invest and make profit for the community's sake, and not for their own personal gain. Since there is not the obsession with profit maximization, people will produce only what they need.
Less and less workers needed. Less and less births. Less and less production.

I think unbridled capitalism and profit maximization are evil concepts. That belong in minds with a very low degree of awareness.

I think unbridled anything is generally a bad idea. We've seen the destruction unbridled socialism can cause. However it is too bad you feel the need to give more power to the state to bridal in your excesses. All you are doing is unbridling the state.

The people should bridal in the state, not the other way around. If individuals cannot bridal in their excesses, what makes you think that folks given power in the government will be any better at controlling their greed?

I think unbridled government and power maximization are evil concepts. What you don't seem to understand is that this people whom you seem not to trust, your are willing to these same folks, unable to bridal their excesses control over your life that have the addition of being able to enforce these excesses.

 

[Nakosis]

Strong in their faith these socialists are.
No matter that failure dogs their every
attempt, there's always an excuse & hope
that this time, they'll get an authoritarian
economic system right.

Socialism is like a religious belief. Faith in things unseen.

 

[Stevicus]

You mistakenly attribute things to capitalism.
You think that because I find your arguments
vapid & irrelevant that this is to duck & dodge
them. Just a misunderstanding.

Of course, I don't agree with your opinion that my arguments are vapid and irrelevant, but even then, that's really no excuse not to address them. Otherwise, how can anyone know that you even understand these arguments well enough that you can come up with a finding that they're vapid and irrelevant? In all honesty, it really does look like a duck and dodge.

As far as what I attributed those things to, I attribute them to greed and a lust for power and control. Didn't you bring up human nature earlier and speak of how socialism works against it? For the past 300-400 years, human societies have also tried to grow and develop beyond their primitive nature, and we've seen enormous advancements as a result. Should we just stop doing that and give up thinking that we can't change human nature any more than we already have?

 

[Revoltingest]

Socialism is like a religious belief. Faith in things unseen.

Aye, tis the lack of evidence that makes the analogy cromulent.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course, I don't agree with your opinion that my arguments are vapid and irrelevant, but even then, that's really no excuse not to address them.

I addressed the relevant portions.
I ignore the many irrelevant ones, eg, your unsupported
claim that life in the USSR was better than under the Tsar.
It's irrelevant to my claim that capitalism offered superior
liberty & prosperity to socialism.
Moreover, this actually did address your claims.

 

[Audie]

I addressed the relevant portions.
I ignore the many irrelevant ones, eg, your unsupported
claim that life in the USSR was better than under the Tsar.
It's irrelevant to my claim that capitalism offered superior
liberty & prosperity to socialism.
Moreover, this actually did address your claims.

Socialists and creationists are much alike with
their naive yearning for a fantasy world where their
ideals will reign.

 

[Viker]

BTW, unbridled anything is destructive.

 

[Audie]

BTW, unbridled anything is destructive.

Of course. And as if "unbridled capitalism"
has ever had any existence outside of lala land.

 

[Stevicus]

You actually think your envy
has nothing to with being greedy?
Droll.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying that I'm greedy, envious, or both? What does that have to do with anything?

It's your envy that drives your cant n rant.
It's you I'm addressing not yonder peasants.

My personal feelings (whatever you imagine them to be) are of no importance here. This is about the economic system of a country you no longer live in. You have no stake in this. As for me, my conscience is clear. I've always worked since I was 16 (even through high school and college, full time), always paid my own way, I pay my taxes, follow the law, and I've never taken a dime in welfare, unemployment, or any other public monies for that matter. That's how I can live with myself and sleep well at night.

That you've no success in business is evident.
I could buy everything you own and give it to charity.
No envy? Your posts drip with it.

I think your projections reveal more of what's on your mind than anything about what my posts "drip" with. I honestly don't know what you're getting at.

I have no obligation to justify my existence to you. I don't know what you define as "success in business," and I won't ask where your money comes from. Why not just stick to the topic instead of making the subject about me? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I responded in kind, so let's just try to stay civil, shall we?

And, "social darwinism"? That is bs for sure. So is
pretending it's me came up with it!

Well, no, I didn't say you came up with it. It's the typical capitalist mantra relating to an adherence to natural law. The usual "human nature" argument that's central to the capitalist ideology. Even you demonstrate your adherence to this mindset by setting yourself up as a "success in business" while looking on down on working stiffs. Nature's competition, survival of the fittest. Where do you think that will lead? You seem to think that you're smart and that you've studied history, so knowing what you do about human nature, how do you see things developing in the coming years? Do you think that it's wise to maintain reckless policies?

This isn't about me or you or who's envious or greedy, but it's about the future. I won't live that long, but I still care about the future. Don't you? Or do you just care about a life of luxury and fun?

Run business for charity? Droll as droll can be.
You surely do prove your point with such drivel.
Not the point you think, tho.

So, you deny that businesses are in business to make money.

You think you know how things work? Ever sit on
a corporate board? Invest in anythjng bigger tha a car ?
Start an enterprise, provide jobs?

Have you done any of these things? I think you've said that your family was in real estate, so your experience may be different from mine.

But yes, I think I know how things work. That doesn't change the basic point: Businesses are in business to make money. That's the whole idea. And you're saying I'm wrong about that? You're saying that proves I don't know how things work?

Ha. As if.

I'll admit I didn't get a flat in Repulse Bay,
another here in S'pore, and the money I play with by working in a noodle factory. It's nice to get a head start.

But hey. You know so much?You come to Hong Kong, try your hand.
In business. Find out which of us knows what
they're talking about. I do it for fun. I've a feeling
you would not have fun.

My cousin lives in Singapore, and he also has a place near Kuala Lumpur. He's in business, and does quite well for himself. He likes capitalism, and that's fine for him. On my other side of the family, a lot of my kin made a lot of money in the oil business. Now, there's a solid enterprise. Oil is the lifeblood of industry. So, I'm not exactly a stranger to wealth or wealthy people. My mother worked in Hollywood and hobnobbed with some of the rich and famous from that region, and quite frankly, that's where many of my early impressions of capitalism were formed. That was during the Nixon era.

I learned as much as I could about the land in which I was born, and my views regarding capitalism and socialism were forged very early in life. But it is also strongly informed by the historical context of how it all came about. You're just speaking of one aspect and making it highly personalized, but you're failing to take into account the larger picture.

 

[Stevicus]

I addressed the relevant portions.
I ignore the many irrelevant ones, eg, your unsupported
claim that life in the USSR was better than under the Tsar.
It's irrelevant to my claim that capitalism offered superior
liberty & prosperity to socialism.
Moreover, this actually did address your claims.

The basic claim that I addressed was that socialism made Russia worse than the government and political system they had before. The underlying argument is that "socialism always makes things worse," and this is the claim that I would take issue with and find to be unsupported by a careful examination of the actual historical facts.

I never claimed that socialism in the USSR made things as luxurious or comfortable in that country as the United States or other developed Western industrialized countries. The reasons for that have more to do with the practical realities of history, not really due to any abstract "system," since it likely would have been the same issues either way. But nevertheless, there was marked improvement in their industrial output, literacy rate, compulsory education and an expansion of higher education, winning WW2, the first country to send a rocket into space.

I'm not defending the atrocities of that regime, but perhaps if there hadn't been the atrocities and excesses of Stalin, they might have done even greater things. Stalin was paranoid, but he was also in a position where he felt surrounded by enemies. That's not due to socialism. That's just mental illness.

 

[Audie]

That's your opinion.



If you don't understand the subject you're discussing, then your best bet is to bow out and not make bizarre, nonsensical statements. I find most of your posts to be incoherent.

It has nothing to do with envy at all. It has to do with people on the streets without homes, and people without enough money for food. The reason they don't have enough money is not because of envy or being a non-achiever or any other social Darwinist BS you can come up with. That's a load of crap, and you know it.

Every business is in business to make money. Do you deny this? If so, then prove to me that businesses are in business for strictly charitable purposes. If not, then my point is proven and my argument is valid.

And that's it.

Here's where you say I came up with social
Darwinist bs

Between not knowing what you've said
and making things up then denying it, it's no
wonder you'd find others' posts incoherent.

 

[Stevicus]

Here's where you say I came up with social
Darwinist bs

Between not knowing what you've said
and making things up then denying it, it's no
wonder you'd find others' posts incoherent.

I know what I said, and I have not denied anything.

 

[Audie]

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying that I'm greedy, envious, or both? What does that have to do with anything?



My personal feelings (whatever you imagine them to be) are of no importance here. This is about the economic system of a country you no longer live in. You have no stake in this. As for me, my conscience is clear. I've always worked since I was 16 (even through high school and college, full time), always paid my own way, I pay my taxes, follow the law, and I've never taken a dime in welfare, unemployment, or any other public monies for that matter. That's how I can live with myself and sleep well at night.




I think your projections reveal more of what's on your mind than anything about what my posts "drip" with. I honestly don't know what you're getting at.

I have no obligation to justify my existence to you. I don't know what you define as "success in business," and I won't ask where your money comes from. Why not just stick to the topic instead of making the subject about me? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I responded in kind, so let's just try to stay civil, shall we?




Well, no, I didn't say you came up with it. It's the typical capitalist mantra relating to an adherence to natural law. The usual "human nature" argument that's central to the capitalist ideology. Even you demonstrate your adherence to this mindset by setting yourself up as a "success in business" while looking on down on working stiffs. Nature's competition, survival of the fittest. Where do you think that will lead? You seem to think that you're smart and that you've studied history, so knowing what you do about human nature, how do you see things developing in the coming years? Do you think that it's wise to maintain reckless policies?

This isn't about me or you or who's envious or greedy, but it's about the future. I won't live that long, but I still care about the future. Don't you? Or do you just care about a life of luxury and fun?



So, you deny that businesses are in business to make money.



Have you done any of these things? I think you've said that your family was in real estate, so your experience may be different from mine.

But yes, I think I know how things work. That doesn't change the basic point: Businesses are in business to make money. That's the whole idea. And you're saying I'm wrong about that? You're saying that proves I don't know how things work?



My cousin lives in Singapore, and he also has a place near Kuala Lumpur. He's in business, and does quite well for himself. He likes capitalism, and that's fine for him. On my other side of the family, a lot of my kin made a lot of money in the oil business. Now, there's a solid enterprise. Oil is the lifeblood of industry. So, I'm not exactly a stranger to wealth or wealthy people. My mother worked in Hollywood and hobnobbed with some of the rich and famous from that region, and quite frankly, that's where many of my early impressions of capitalism were formed. That was during the Nixon era.

I learned as much as I could about the land in which I was born, and my views regarding capitalism and socialism were forged very early in life. But it is also strongly informed by the historical context of how it all came about. You're just speaking of one aspect and making it highly personalized, but you're failing to take into account the larger picture.

So..wrong, I have a considerable stake in the American economy. You just made that up.

I dont look down on working people.

I didn't come up with any social darwinist bs.

And I certainly don't deny that biz is
( in part) to make money. You made that up too.

Do you think that's all there is to it?


You made up some other stuff too, but never mind.

If I need a dose of socialist cant I will
give my ex red guard uncle a call.

 

[Stevicus]

So..wrong, I have a considerable stake in the American economy. You just made that up.

I dont look down on working people.

I didn't come up with any social darwinist bs.

And I certainly don't deny that biz is
( in part) to make money. You made that up too.

Do you think that's all there is to it?


You made up some other stuff too, but never mind.

If I need a dose of socialist cant I will
give my ex red guard uncle a call.

No point in repeating myself. I've said my peace.

As for social Darwinism: Social Darwinism - Wikipedia

Social Darwinism is the study and implementation of various theories and societal practices that purport to apply biological concepts of natural selection and survival of the fittest to sociology, economics and politics, and which were largely defined by scholars in Western Europe and North America in the 1870s.[1][2] Social Darwinism holds that the strong see their wealth and power increase while the weak see their wealth and power decrease. Social Darwinist definitions of the strong and the weak vary, and also differ on the precise mechanisms that reward strength and punish weakness. Many such views stress competition between individuals in laissez-faire capitalism, while others, emphasizing struggle between national or racial groups, support eugenics, racism, imperialism and/or fascism.[3][4][5]

 

[Estro Felino]

I think unbridled anything is generally a bad idea. We've seen the destruction unbridled socialism can cause. However it is too bad you feel the need to give more power to the state to bridal in your excesses. All you are doing is unbridling the state.

The people should bridal in the state, not the other way around. If individuals cannot bridal in their excesses, what makes you think that folks given power in the government will be any better at controlling their greed?

I think unbridled government and power maximization are evil concepts. What you don't seem to understand is that this people whom you seem not to trust, your are willing to these same folks, unable to bridal their excesses control over your life that have the addition of being able to enforce these excesses.

On question: what would you do in this hypothetical situation?
hypothetical situation: your daughter comes back home with her arms severely bruised. She tells you it's her teacher who hit her with a stick.

 

[Nakosis]

On question: what would you do in this hypothetical situation?
hypothetical situation: your daughter comes back home with her arms severely bruised. She tells you it's her teacher who hit her with a stick.

First move her to a different school.
One which didn't allow that kind of punishment.

 

[Estro Felino]

First move her to a different school.
One which didn't allow that kind of punishment.

Wouldn't you reprimand the teacher?

 

[Nakosis]

Wouldn't you reprimand the teacher?

Perhaps but no guarantee that would do any good.
Most people do whatever they think is right.
I'd imagine the teacher thought they were acting within their right.

Perhaps even my fault for not looking into what discipline was allowed in the first place.

 

[Estro Felino]

Perhaps but no guarantee that would do any good.
Most people do whatever they think is right.
I'd imagine the teacher thought they were acting within their right.

Perhaps even my fault for not looking into what discipline was allowed in the first place.

I am not getting it.
A teacher severely hits the arms of a little child who happens to be your daughter and you do nothing?

Most people would really reprimand the teacher, because you can use the words to correct a child. Not violence.

That's why a very powerful and authoritative State is needed: the State defends the weakest from the violent, those wealthy élites who exploit the poor. The State will put these violent people in their place.