Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[YoursTrue]

Yjr NT describes Jesus and God the Father as Roman Gods, and Mary as a Roman or Canaanite Goddess.

yeah right. where do you see that? In bahaullah's or the babs teaching? is that how you know that it's in what you call the "New" Testament?

 

[YoursTrue]

The entire Bible and the Quran is dependent on the Pentateuch being a literal accurate history.

is the bab's teaching dependent on that too?

 

[YoursTrue]

. . . and in many diverse conflicting religions and the variations of different churches. To add Judaism rejects all of the above based on their own Hebrew scriptures.

how is that?

 

[YoursTrue]

OK. I was answering your question about Christmas falling near the winter solstice. I didn't invent the trope of the god or demigod dying and rising again in three days being symbolized by the sun apparently stopping and reversing direction in three days as days begin growing longer again. You might need to look into those gods listed individually elsewhere. Also, the three days isn't an essential part of the answer...

The problem is that the "proof" or article you posted spoke about 'gods' being resurrected after three days, and then it called Jesus a Roman God. If you believe that, again, as an autonomous individual that you say you are, that's up to you...the date of Jesus' birth is an interesting enough discussion for those who really want to learn. Thanks anyway.

 

[YoursTrue]

The entire Bible and the Quran is dependent on the Pentateuch being a literal accurate history.

It is?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yjr NT describes Jesus and God the Father as Roman Gods, and Mary as a Roman or Canaanite Goddess.

Other than your opinion there, what else do you have to back that statement up?

 

[shunyadragon]

Other than your opinion there, what else do you have to back that statement up?

Covered that many times over. For example the archaeological evidence specifically demonstrates a polytheistic belief of the Hebrews, before 600 BCE with the Canaanite Gods including YHWH and companion female Goddess

 

[shunyadragon]

how is that?

It is a fact ot the nature of the conflicting religious beliefs.

. . . and in many diverse conflicting religions and the variations of different churches. To add Judaism rejects all of the above based on their own Hebrew scriptures.

Do you doubt that "Judaism rejects Christian beliefs and all of the above based on their own Hebrew scriptures."

 

[YoursTrue]

It is a fact ot the nature of the conflicting religious beliefs.

. . . and in many diverse conflicting religions and the variations of different churches. To add Judaism rejects all of the above based on their own Hebrew scriptures.

Do you doubt that "Judaism rejects Christian beliefs and all of the above based on their own Hebrew scriptures."

Many professing Judaism as their basic religious affiliation do not know the scriptures at all. Or, as we see here, they view what is considered as their affiliation as based on myths. As do some so-called Christians here.

 

[YoursTrue]

Covered that many times over. For example the archaeological evidence specifically demonstrates a polytheistic belief of the Hebrews, before 600 BCE with the Canaanite Gods including YHWH and companion female Goddess

I realize that when Moses went up the mountain and the escapees were waiting for him and he took longer than they wanted, they built a golden calf. That tells me how easily they could be swayed and that they must have had affiliation with other gods even though Moses was not dealing with multiple gods.

 

[shunyadragon]

I realize that when Moses went up the mountain and the escapees were waiting for him and he took longer than they wanted, they built a golden calf. That tells me how easily they could be swayed and that they must have had affiliation with other gods even though Moses was not dealing with multiple gods.

This does not explain the evidence for the belief in polytheism and Canaanite Gods wide spread in Judaism before 600 BCE well after the time Mose lived. Judaism arose as a Canaanite religion.

 

[jimb]

Covered that many times over. For example the archaeological evidence specifically demonstrates a polytheistic belief of the Hebrews, before 600 BCE with the Canaanite Gods including YHWH and companion female Goddess

What archaeological evidence are you referring to?

 

[shunyadragon]

What archaeological evidence are you referring to?

I have cited this before:. The problem is in past exchanges you simply deny my academic references as Academia vs the Bible, I do not wxpwct anything difference in this exchange. I cite modern academic references.

Onerview. which I will follow up with specific archaeological finds:
This reference has a list of academic references. The conclusions are no different form previous academic references that documented that the Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BEC as Judaism became Monotheistic.

Yahwism - Wikipedia.

Yahwism, as it is called by modern scholars, was the religion of ancient Israel and Judah.[1] An ancient Semitic religion of the Iron Age, Yahwism was essentially polytheistic and had a pantheon, with various gods and goddesses being worshipped by the Israelites.[2] At the head of this pantheon was Yahweh—held in an especially high regard as the two Israelite kingdoms' national god—and his consort Asherah.[3] Following this duo were second-tier gods and goddesses, such as Baal, Shamash, Yarikh, Mot, and Astarte, each of whom had their own priests and prophets and numbered royalty among their devotees.[4][5]

The practices of Yahwism included festivals, ritual sacrifices, vow-making, private rituals, and the religious adjudication of legal disputes.[6] For most of its history, the Temple in Jerusalem was not the sole or central place of worship dedicated to Yahweh, with many locations throughout Israel, Judah, and Samaria.[7][8] However, it was still significant to the Israelite king, who effectively led the national religion as the national god's worldly viceroy.[9]

Yahwism underwent several redevelopments and recontextualizations as the notion of divinities aside from or comparable to Yahweh was gradually degraded by new religious currents and ideas. Possibly beginning with the hypothesized United Kingdom of Israel, the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah had a joint religious tradition comprising cultic worship of Yahweh. Later theological changes concerning the evolution of Yahweh's status initially remained largely confined to small groups,[10] only spreading to the population at large during the general political turbulence of the 7th and 6th centuries BCE. By the end of the Babylonian captivity, Yahwism began turning away from polytheism (or, by some accounts, Yahweh-centric monolatry) and transitioned towards monotheism, where Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator deity and the only entity worthy of worship.[11] Following the end of the Babylonian captivity and the subsequent establishment of Yehud Medinata in the 4th century BCE, Yahwism coalesced into what is known as Second Temple Judaism,[12][13] from which the modern ethnic religions of Judaism and Samaritanism, as well as the Abrahamic religions of Christianity and Islam, would later emerge.

Reference is longer with academic references.

Is your request sincere or are you going for the stoic stonewall of Academia vs the Bible?

 

[jimb]

I have cited this before:. The problem is in past exchanges you simply deny my academic references as Academia vs the Bible, I do not wxpwct anything difference in this exchange. I cite modern academic references.

Onerview. which I will follow up with specific archaeological finds:
This reference has a list of academic references. The conclusions are no different form previous academic references that documented that the Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BEC as Judaism became Monotheistic.

Yahwism - Wikipedia.

Yahwism, as it is called by modern scholars, was the religion of ancient Israel and Judah.[1] An ancient Semitic religion of the Iron Age, Yahwism was essentially polytheistic and had a pantheon, with various gods and goddesses being worshipped by the Israelites.[2] At the head of this pantheon was Yahweh—held in an especially high regard as the two Israelite kingdoms' national god—and his consort Asherah.[3] Following this duo were second-tier gods and goddesses, such as Baal, Shamash, Yarikh, Mot, and Astarte, each of whom had their own priests and prophets and numbered royalty among their devotees.[4][5]

The practices of Yahwism included festivals, ritual sacrifices, vow-making, private rituals, and the religious adjudication of legal disputes.[6] For most of its history, the Temple in Jerusalem was not the sole or central place of worship dedicated to Yahweh, with many locations throughout Israel, Judah, and Samaria.[7][8] However, it was still significant to the Israelite king, who effectively led the national religion as the national god's worldly viceroy.[9]

Yahwism underwent several redevelopments and recontextualizations as the notion of divinities aside from or comparable to Yahweh was gradually degraded by new religious currents and ideas. Possibly beginning with the hypothesized United Kingdom of Israel, the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah had a joint religious tradition comprising cultic worship of Yahweh. Later theological changes concerning the evolution of Yahweh's status initially remained largely confined to small groups,[10] only spreading to the population at large during the general political turbulence of the 7th and 6th centuries BCE. By the end of the Babylonian captivity, Yahwism began turning away from polytheism (or, by some accounts, Yahweh-centric monolatry) and transitioned towards monotheism, where Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator deity and the only entity worthy of worship.[11] Following the end of the Babylonian captivity and the subsequent establishment of Yehud Medinata in the 4th century BCE, Yahwism coalesced into what is known as Second Temple Judaism,[12][13] from which the modern ethnic religions of Judaism and Samaritanism, as well as the Abrahamic religions of Christianity and Islam, would later emerge.

Reference is longer with academic references.

Is your request sincere or are you going for the stoic stonewall of Academia vs the Bible?

a) Yahwism is not Judaism. The claim makes as much sense as saying that the British monarchy is the foundation of American democracy.

b) Wikipedia is hardly a legitimate academic source of information.

c) Why do you persist in your unfounded "academic" hypothesis?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

c) Why do you persist in your unfounded "academic" hypothesis?

If all one has is a crude hammer, ...

 

[shunyadragon]

Archaeological evidence:

Judean Pillar Figurines

In “JPFs: More Questions than Answers” in the September/October 2014 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Robert Deutsch provides an overview of Judean pillar figurines.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

Judean Pillar Figurines​

Puzzling artifacts from Iron Age Judah

Robin Ngo January 05, 2016 19 Comments 16723 views Share
First discovered more than one hundred years ago, Judean pillar figurines continue to be poorly understood in scholarship today. Judean pillar figurines—abbreviated JPFs—were prevalent in Judah during the First Temple period (ca. 800–586 B.C.E.). These household objects, of which thousands have been found, are not present in Judah following the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E.


Two major types of Judean pillar figurines have been found. One type has a face that’s pinched to make two eyes (Left, Photo: Israel Museum, Jerusalem). The second type has a mold-made head with defined facial features and rows of curly hair (Right, Photo: Metropolitan Museum of Art).
In “JPFs: More Questions than Answers” in the September/October 2014 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Robert Deutsch provides an overview of these puzzling pillar figurines.
To begin, the name “Judean pillar figurine”—as these objects are universally called—is somewhat of a misnomer. The land in which these pillar figurines were found was called Judah, not Judea. The name Judea emerged when the southern Levant came under Roman rule beginning in the first century B.C.E. The adjective Judahite—to describe the people and material culture of Judah—is a recent designation. Deutsch believes these Iron Age pillar figurines in question are more accurately represented by the name “Judahite pillar figurines.” They are also called JPFs for simplicity.

JPFs are clay female figurines with heads rendered largely in two major types: those that are handmade and those that are mold-made. The handmade heads are fashioned in a rudimentary way, with their faces pinched to form two eyes. The heads made from molds display hairstyles resembling Egyptian wigs, with rows of curls, and defined facial features. A solid cylindrical pillar is used for the bodies of both types of JPFs. Both types also have oversized breasts, under which the arms curve.

a) Yahwism is not Judaism. The claim makes as much sense as saying that the British monarchy is the foundation of American democracy.

Yahwism is Judaism before 600 BCE as referenced. Nothing to do with the British Monarchy or Democracy.

Failure to respond. It is a given you reject Modern scholarship and archaeological evidence as cited. You did not repond to the archaeological evidence, more to follow.

b) Wikipedia is hardly a legitimate academic source of information.

My reference had many other references. Failure o respond as usual.

c) Why do you persist in your unfounded "academic" hypothesis?

Based on objective verifiable archaeological, historical and Pentateuch references, and actual physical evidence.

Facts: (1) The Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BCE, (1) No hebrew test of the Pentateuch before 600 BCE, (3) No archaeological or text evidence of the belief of Monotheism before 600 BCE. (4) The Hebrews were a pastoral Canaanite tribe or tribes before 600 BCE. (5) Common stone and clay idols of various Gods including female goddesses. and molds for making the idols in the temples. (6) References of Canaanite Gods and the pantheon of Gods in the Pentateuch.

Your dropping back to your modus operandi of stoic stonewalling Academia ve Bible and ignoring the archaeological evidence..

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Based on objective verifiable archaeological, historical and Pentateuch references.

A quick question:

• Can you point to the book or books that (a) you've actually read and referenced, and (b) that you believe to be most probative?

 

[jimb]

Archaeological evidence:

Judean Pillar Figurines

In “JPFs: More Questions than Answers” in the September/October 2014 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Robert Deutsch provides an overview of Judean pillar figurines.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

Judean Pillar Figurines​

Puzzling artifacts from Iron Age Judah

Robin Ngo January 05, 2016 19 Comments 16723 views Share
First discovered more than one hundred years ago, Judean pillar figurines continue to be poorly understood in scholarship today. Judean pillar figurines—abbreviated JPFs—were prevalent in Judah during the First Temple period (ca. 800–586 B.C.E.). These household objects, of which thousands have been found, are not present in Judah following the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E.


Two major types of Judean pillar figurines have been found. One type has a face that’s pinched to make two eyes (Left, Photo: Israel Museum, Jerusalem). The second type has a mold-made head with defined facial features and rows of curly hair (Right, Photo: Metropolitan Museum of Art).
In “JPFs: More Questions than Answers” in the September/October 2014 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, Robert Deutsch provides an overview of these puzzling pillar figurines.
To begin, the name “Judean pillar figurine”—as these objects are universally called—is somewhat of a misnomer. The land in which these pillar figurines were found was called Judah, not Judea. The name Judea emerged when the southern Levant came under Roman rule beginning in the first century B.C.E. The adjective Judahite—to describe the people and material culture of Judah—is a recent designation. Deutsch believes these Iron Age pillar figurines in question are more accurately represented by the name “Judahite pillar figurines.” They are also called JPFs for simplicity.

JPFs are clay female figurines with heads rendered largely in two major types: those that are handmade and those that are mold-made. The handmade heads are fashioned in a rudimentary way, with their faces pinched to form two eyes. The heads made from molds display hairstyles resembling Egyptian wigs, with rows of curls, and defined facial features. A solid cylindrical pillar is used for the bodies of both types of JPFs. Both types also have oversized breasts, under which the arms curve.

Yahwism is Judaism before 600 BCE as referenced. Nothing to do with the British Monarchy or Democracy.

Failure to respond. It is a given you reject Modern scholarship and archaeological evidence as cited. You did not repond to the archaeological evidence, more to follow.

My reference had many other references. Failure o respond as usual.


Based on objective verifiable archaeological, historical and Pentateuch references, and actual physical evidence.

Facts: (1) The Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BCE, (1) No hebrew test of the Pentateuch before 600 BCE, (3) No archaeological or text evidence of the belief of Monotheism before 600 BCE. (4) The Hebrews were a pastoral Canaanite tribe or tribes before 600 BCE. (5) Common stone and clay idols of various Gods including female goddesses. and molds for making the idols in the temples. (6) References of Canaanite Gods and the pantheon of Gods in the Pentateuch.

Your dropping back to your modus operandi of stoic stonewalling Academia ve Bible and ignoring the archaeological evidence..

I know more about the standards of academia than you ever will. Hypotheses are NOT proof.

Since, unlike yourself, I don't sink to personal criticism to win an argument, a.k.a., ad hominem. I will leave you to your unfounded fantasy and put you on "ignore".

 

[Elihoenai]

Yes, supernatural is beyond nature but that does not mean it is spiritual.

spiritual
relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages

Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.

languages.oup.com

The things Above Nature are Spiritual. Supernatural means Above Nature.

I do not believe that Jesus walked on water but so what if He did?
How does it help anyone if a man can walk on water? What purpose does it serve for spirituality?

Water is a material thing, a physical thing.

Question.—It is recorded that miracles were performed by Christ. Are the reports of these miracles really to be accepted literally, or have they another meaning? It has been proved by exact science that the essence of things does not change, and that all beings are under one universal law and organization from which they cannot deviate; and, therefore, that which is contrary to universal law is impossible.

Answer.—The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared.

But in the Holy Books an especial terminology is employed, and for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent. . . . . . . . .

The outward miracles have no importance for the people of Reality. If a blind man receives sight, for example, he will finally again become sightless, for he will die and be deprived of all his senses and powers. Therefore, causing the blind man to see is comparatively of little importance, for this faculty of sight will at last disappear. If the body of a dead person be resuscitated, of what use is it since the body will die again? But it is important to give perception and eternal life—that is, the spiritual and divine life. For this physical life is not immortal, and its existence is equivalent to nonexistence. So it is that Christ said to one of His disciples: “Let the dead bury their dead;” for “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” 1

Observe: those who in appearance were physically alive, Christ considered dead; for life is the eternal life, and existence is the real existence. Wherever in the Holy Books they speak of raising the dead, the meaning is that the dead were blessed by eternal life; where it is said that the blind received sight, the signification is that he obtained the true perception; where it is said a deaf man received hearing, the meaning is that he acquired spiritual and heavenly hearing. This is ascertained from the text of the Gospel where Christ said: “These are like those of whom Isaiah said, They have eyes and see not, they have ears and hear not; and I healed them.” 2

The meaning is not that the Manifestations are unable to perform miracles, for They have all power. But for Them inner sight, spiritual healing and eternal life are the valuable and important things. Consequently, whenever it is recorded in the Holy Books that such a one was blind and recovered his sight, the meaning is that he was inwardly blind, and that he obtained spiritual vision, or that he was ignorant and became wise, or that he was negligent and became heedful, or that he was worldly and became heavenly.

As this inner sight, hearing, life and healing are eternal, they are of importance. What, comparatively, is the importance, the value and the worth of this animal life with its powers? In a few days it will cease like fleeting thoughts. For example, if one relights an extinguished lamp, it will again become extinguished; but the light of the sun is always luminous. This is of importance.

Some Answered Questions, pp. 100-102

True Religion is Faith and has Nothing to do with Science. Appeal to Science for Religious Answers Demonstrates Weak Faith. You have already admitted that you are Not Close to Elohim/God.

Please stop comparing the Baha'i Faith with Roman Catholicism. It is nothing like Roman Catholicism.

The Baha'i Faith does not Cherish the Human Nature. We attempt to rise above our material nature in service of our spiritual nature.

The Baha'i Faith recognizes that humans have two natures, a spiritual or higher nature and a material or lower nature, because that is Reality.

“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60

THE TWO NATURES IN MAN

Baha'i Faith is the same as Roman Catholicism at the Fundamental Level. The Central Point Being that Roman Catholicism and Baha'i Faith sees the Historical Yeshua/Jesus and that nobody can Become Yeshua/Jesus. Any Religion that Rejects the Real Yeshua/Jesus is a Lie and Both Bahai' Faith and Roman Catholicism Rejects the Real Yeshua/Jesus. If you Accepted Yeshua/Jesus you would be a Christian.

 

[Eli G]

True religion consists of worshiping the true God in the way He approves.

For this, several things are necessary:

1) knowing the true God from the appropriate source

2) knowing what the true God requires and trying to do it

3) trusting that our God has the necessary qualities to offer us what we really need and that He will finally do it, so we put all trust and hope in Him, despite everything that may happen to us before that happens.