Unintelligent Design

[Pudding]

No, belief in God is proved by the believer. We do not, even if we think we do, believe of our own doing. Believers are living witnesses, however good or bad they might be at it or as individuals.

From other thread:

It doesn't actually work like that. God proves, not man. If he opens your eyes, you believe, if not, you don't.Now you will ask why doesn't he. Because it depends on who you are. You are foreknown. That is not to say you do not have freewill....it is just hard to use. We follow who we are you see....hard to change that.

I find this two post is contradicting (the black colour sentence).

 

[Pudding]

I think that is a fair question. If the Bible really is God's Word, inspired by him, we would rightly expect evidence for this. Some evidence I find convincing is the scientific accuracy of the Bible, even though completed some 2,000 years ago. Historical accuracy often confirmed.by archeological discoveries, the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, and the power of the Bible to change people also convince me it is not a mere book of human wisdom. Some evidence for the authenticity of the Bible can be reviewed here.

Thanks for the explanation.
About the details of all those evidence, i'm not sure about their validity.
If you wants to convince people that what you claims is true, then it's helpful if you can elaborate them, but i understand you're not obligated to do so, and some people may say it'll derail the op and should be discuss in other thread, but this proving is related to your claims, without the proving i've no idea why your claims is true.

Some people may say i've to research it myself, i'm not sure i've the obligation to do so.
If other religion's believer make similar claims without proving why their claims is true, do i/you/anyone have the obligation to research it ourselves too?

 

[First Baseman]

When you get to Heaven you get a cloud, a harp and a golden halo. What more do you want you greedy SOB???

What do you think happens to us when we die, Demonslayer? Do you think we just cease to exist?

 

[Demonslayer]

What do you think happens to us when we die, Demonslayer? Do you think we just cease to exist?

We cease to be conscious that's for sure. I mean we don't even have consciousness when we're under anethesia and our brains are still working. We don't have consciousness when we pass out from drinking too much, or from a knock on the head, or in a coma. Why would I ever expect to have consciousness after I die when my brain...the only thing that gives me consciousness to begin with...is no longer functioning?

The coma is a good example. If we have a soul that allows us consciousness after we die, why doesn't it function when we're in a coma?

 

[rusra02]

Thanks for the explanation.
About the details of all those evidence, i'm not sure about their validity.
If you wants to convince people that what you claims is true, then it's helpful if you can elaborate them, but i understand you're not obligated to do so, and some people may say it'll derail the op and should be discuss in other thread, but this proving is related to your claims, without the proving i've no idea why your claims is true.

Some people may say i've to research it myself, i'm not sure i've the obligation to do so.
If other religion's believer make similar claims without proving why their claims is true, do i/you/anyone have the obligation to research it ourselves too?

I believe the true God wants us to "seek God, if [we] might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist." (Acts 17:27,28) Jesus said that those conscious of their spiritual need are happy. (Matthew 5:3) I believe we can only benefit ourselves by proving to ourselves what the truth is about God. Jesus said; "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

 

[Yoshua]

Even an insect is above "his" intelligence.

Hi St. Frank,

Who made the insects? the one who made those insects is of a high intelligence.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

So why all the goofs? Or do you prefer to simply ignore them?

Why I will ignore the truth that God is the intelligent designer? It should not be. Man seeks to have a mind like God ever since, but they still failed to achieve it because God is the God of the intelligent design. No one is above God.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

I would have designed better, if I had unlimited power. Functional wings would be quite handy, for instance.

Or what about eight arms like a spider? Imagine Bach fugues if he had been a arachnid

Yup! you may do your creativity in the level of your intelligence, but there is someone who give you that intelligence, no other than God.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

So is it an act of intelligence when God designs a human to die before the age 1?

Living and dying, same as the animals are all covered in God's intelligent design. He has a purpose for all of His design. We absolutely cannot comprehend all the things that God has in mind. We are (all) fall short when it comes to His knowledge.

Thanks

 

[Pudding]

I believe the true God wants us to "seek God, if [we] might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist." (Acts 17:27,28) Jesus said that those conscious of their spiritual need are happy. (Matthew 5:3) I believe we can only benefit ourselves by proving to ourselves what the truth is about God. Jesus said; "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

If any other religion's believer told their religion's God's claims (which is similar to your claims) to you without any evidence to prove whether their claims is true or not, and advise you to seek their religion's God, will you seek their religion's God too?

Or is it after a person have already successfully seek and enlighten by one religion's God, then he/she is no longer need to seek other religion's God when other religion's believer advise him/her to seek their religion's God?

 

[Useless2015]

Intelligent Design is one of those creationist terms used to describe how earth's life came about. Not through the hit-and-miss process of evolution, but "by the deliberate hand of god." God being the intelligent designer. But just how intelligent were these designs? Could they have been better? My guess is that the creationist will say, "No. Being designed by god, by default they're perfect." In contrast, unintelligent design would be something not created by god, and would more likely than not have flaws, glitches, and deficiencies of some sort. Flaws, glitches, and deficiencies that that may even be detrimental. So, are there any such less than perfect designs; traits that point away from an intelligent designer?

Having stumbled across an article in Wikipedia, I believe there are. The article points out four such examples in humans. Although it was written to describe traits inherited through natural selection that are detrimental to the organism, it also functions as an argument against intelligent design and an intelligent designer. If you're going to insist that god did it all then you have to admit he could have done a better job.

Eyes
One example in humans of unintelligent design is the eyes. The eyes perceive images by receiving light in the retina. The retina sends electrical signals to the brain through the optic nerve and people see images. The optic nerve, however, is connected to the retina on the side that receives light, essentially blocking a portion of the eye and giving humans a blind spot.[1] A better structure for the eye would be to have the optic nerve connected to the side of the retina that does not receive the light, such as in cephalopods.[2]

Throat
Another example in humans is the throat. The esophagus, the part of the throat that allows food to travel to the digestive tract, is connected to the pharynx and the larynx, the parts of the throat that allow humans to breathe and talk.[3] Because these parts are connected, choking can become a major issue. Food and other objects can sometimes get stuck in the throat blocking the air flow and not allowing much needed oxygen to enter the lungs and the rest of the body.[4] If the parts were not connected and did not share a portion of their travel paths, choking would not be an issue, as it isn’t for most other animals in the world.

Teeth
The teeth present a third example in humans alone of unintelligent design. When human beings first started developing larger brains, they had to evolve larger skulls to be able to store the larger brain. Evolution caused the skull cavity to become larger by adding bone from the jaw. In essence, the jaw became smaller to support a larger brain, but the teeth that were in the jaw did not become smaller in size.[5] The amount of teeth that used to fit in the human mouth no longer fits. Because humans generally don’t have room for all 32 teeth, problems arise when all 32 teeth grow in. Wisdom teeth are generally the most problematic due a smaller jaw size. Wisdom teeth, when growing into a jaw that no longer has room, can damage neighboring teeth or even cause serious infections of the mouth.[6] If the human jaw was larger in size there would be plenty of room inside the mouth for all 32 teeth to be present at the same time and the problems that are persistent with wisdom teeth would be less of a threat.

Spinal cord
Another issue that evolved from having a larger brain is that parts of the human body cannot heal properly. The spinal cord, for instance, cannot ever properly heal if it is damaged. Because neurons have become so specialized through evolution, they are no longer able to regrow once they reach their mature state. If the spinal cord is injured, even slightly bruised, the neurons cannot repair themselves like other body cells can. The spinal cord, if broken, will never repair itself and will result in permanent paralysis. If neuron cells had not become so specialized in the spinal cord, then they would be able to repair themselves after an injury.[7]
Link​

For more examples of unintelligent design see HERE

Why do we die? Isn't that unintelligent design aswell?
Unintelligent design does not exist.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi St. Frank,

Who made the insects? the one who made those insects is of a high intelligence.

Thanks

As far as I'm concerned, it's a combination of evolution and self-creation. The concept of a creator deity is irrelevant to my beliefs.

 

[Desert Snake]

As far as I'm concerned, it's a combination of evolution and self-creation. The concept of a creator deity is irrelevant to my beliefs.

Are you creeping closer to atheistic Satanism, or is your 'luciferianism', already atheistic?

 

[Skwim]

Why do we die? Isn't that unintelligent design aswell?

Does the reason we die have design? If so, what is it?

Unintelligent design does not exist.

Then you think the design of the four examples I gave in the OP were intelligent? That they couldn't have been designed better? If they could have then their design wasn't all that intelligent. And, if one insists these designs were god's work then it ain't saying much about god.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Are you creeping closer to atheistic Satanism, or is your 'luciferianism', already atheistic?

No, I'm not an atheist. I don't see why you would think I am.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Why do we die? Isn't that unintelligent design aswell?

Evolution depends on organisms dying. We're just gene-carriers really.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Do you think we just cease to exist?

Probably. A lot of religious belief is a response to the prospect ceasing to exist IMO.

 

[dust1n]

Living and dying, same as the animals are all covered in God's intelligent design. He has a purpose for all of His design. We absolutely cannot comprehend all the things that God has in mind. We are (all) fall short when it comes to His knowledge.

Thanks

We cannot comprehend why he does terrible things; just one of a myriad of reasons I don't bother with a supposed purpose no one knows. Thanks though.

 

[First Baseman]

We cease to be conscious that's for sure. I mean we don't even have consciousness when we're under anethesia and our brains are still working. We don't have consciousness when we pass out from drinking too much, or from a knock on the head, or in a coma. Why would I ever expect to have consciousness after I die when my brain...the only thing that gives me consciousness to begin with...is no longer functioning?

The coma is a good example. If we have a soul that allows us consciousness after we die, why doesn't it function when we're in a coma?

The first question you ask depends totally on your faith since you cannot know the answer any other way. Since your faith is in atheism this is what you believe and this is the question you are led by your conscience to ask. I cannot answer it since my own beliefs are not the same as yours, indeed they are very different, as you already know. We have been friends for a long time.

As for your second question, how do you know that your brain does not function when you are in a coma or when you are unconscious? Your body continues to live in these situations, your heart beats, you breathe and all of your body functions you need to keep you alive continue in tandem just as if you were in no coma. How do you know your brain isn't causing all of these bodily functions to continue? Maybe you are so weak in these situations that it is all your brain can manage to accomplish is to keep you alive by continuing to give the involuntary commands to the rest of your body that keep you alive.

Since you believe not in the spirit or the soul, indeed what else keeps you alive in these situations? It must be the brain fighting to stay alive, survival of the fittest, if you will.

 

[rusra02]

If any other religion's believer told their religion's God's claims (which is similar to your claims) to you without any evidence to prove whether their claims is true or not, and advise you to seek their religion's God, will you seek their religion's God too?

Or is it after a person have already successfully seek and enlighten by one religion's God, then he/she is no longer need to seek other religion's God when other religion's believer advise him/her to seek their religion's God?

It is, I think, a matter of seeking to find the true God; examining the evidence available. Most gods who were once worshipped by many are now just a memory, known only to a few, and worshipped by fewer. I think false gods and their adherents cannot prove the gods they worship are truly gods. Others who keep their adherents through threats of violence and death if one leaves that religion likewise show the impotency of their god. In contrast, the true God has acted throughout man's history, foretold future events centuries before they occurred, and then fulfilled his prophetic word. He has millions of adherents today who worship him out of love, I believe, and who are convinced he is the only true God. Once we "really find" the true God, there is no need to look elsewhere. (Acts 17:27)