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Unity in Submission to God’s Counsels.

Is Unity is Possible Without God?

  • Yes - Then explain How?

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • No - Then offer what Counsels are required?

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • Yes - no explanation

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • No - Plain and simple

    Votes: 5 27.8%
  • It does not concern me

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • This does not reflect my thoughts.

    Votes: 7 38.9%

  • Total voters
    18

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's it, to me, plain and simple it is a No.

I see the peace and security of humanity is unattainable, unless and until Unity is firmly established and that unity is not possible while humanity as a majority do not follow the Counsels given by God.

All faiths given of God, do have Counsels given of God, so what are they?

I think the one to start with is Love as in John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."

"Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship . . . This goal excelleth every other goal, and this aspiration is the monarch of all aspirations." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 288

Please discuss in the light that is Love.

Regards Tony
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes.

Unity would come from love and respect. You don't need to believe in any deity to love and respect your neighbor.

To insist everyone believe in god(and one specific god) is sure to create division, not bring unity.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes.

Unity would come from love and respect. You don't need to believe in any deity to love and respect your neighbor.

To insist everyone believe in god(and one specific god) is sure to create division, not bring unity.
Love and respect is a great foundation.

How would we administer a united world consisting of all the Nations of earth, in all our diversity?

Regards Tony
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Love and respect is a great foundation.

How would we administer a united world consisting of all the Nations of earth, in all our diversity?

Regards Tony
There's a lot of mess, isn't there.

I think first things first, we have to work on individual levels, and get it where folks care about the next guy as much as themselves.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Unless 'unity' is defined in some definitive way understood by all, this will not reflect my thoughts.
We can use the following definition to initiate what Counsels may need to be embraced.

Maybe they are all part of the list required?

Unity of all humanity, where the interests of the individual to basic life necessities are protected, free of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

So the list would already be.

Love.
Individual right to basic life necessities.
Elimination of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

With Love, that would also require the two virtues of Trustworthiness and Truthfulness, as Love is impossible without those two virtues.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Include me in the camp of "I would need to be explained what is meant by Unity and why that it is a worthy goal" as well.

Who sets all the parameters for Unity and as to what Unity should entail?

We can use the following definition to initiate what Counsels may need to be embraced.

Maybe they are all part of the list required?

Unity of all humanity, where the interests of the individual to basic life necessities are protected, free of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

So the list would already be.

Love.
Individual right to basic life necessities.
Elimination of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

With Love, that would also require the two virtues of Trustworthiness and Truthfulness, as Love is impossible without those two virtues.

Regards Tony
I used this definition in my quoted reply above.

"Unity of all humanity, where the interests of the individual to basic life necessities are protected, free of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion."

As to who sets that unity, that is up to each of us to first initiate within our own selves, would it not? Then like minded souls would be motivated to initiate this on a larger scale finally reaching the level of a global effort.

I would think the vast majority of humanity already want and would embrace this Unity, so that is the perplexity we face, how will it be brought forward to be discussed on a global scale?

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There's a lot of mess, isn't there.

I think first things first, we have to work on individual levels, and get it where folks care about the next guy as much as themselves.
That is a suggestion in post #11

Yes there is a lot of mess.

I see that is because we have neglected the fundamental Counsels that have been given in all Faiths. (Personally I see I need to add God given), as I see God is the source of virtues and morals.

Regards Tony
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
That is a suggestion in post #11

Yes there is a lot of mess.

I see that is because we have neglected the fundamental Counsels that have been given in all Faiths. (Personally I see I need to add God given), as I see God is the source of virtues and morals.

Regards Tony
Can you give me a simple and brief example of the Counsels you feel have been neglected?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We can use the following definition to initiate what Counsels may need to be embraced.

Maybe they are all part of the list required?

Unity of all humanity, where the interests of the individual to basic life necessities are protected, free of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

So the list would already be.

Love.
Individual right to basic life necessities.
Elimination of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

With Love, that would also require the two virtues of Trustworthiness and Truthfulness, as Love is impossible without those two virtues.

Regards Tony
Capitalizing words like 'Counsels' is clear indication that this is more Baha'ispeak, and nothing new, other than the same old repetitious slogans and promotion of your faith, in a new thread. For that reason, I will be out.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Capitalizing words like 'Counsels' is clear indication that this is more Baha'ispeak, and nothing new, other than the same old repetitious slogans and promotion of your faith, in a new thread. For that reason, I will be out.
I have to give a big LOL to that. , just the notion that it has anything to do with being a Baha'i. I have told you many times I am not good at English. Capitalising words is an indication of my English ability and knowledge, nothing else.

If you feel you have nothing to add to the OP, add a counsel (with I often spell Councels), that needs to be addressed, then it is a good choice not to participate.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Can you give me a simple and brief example of the Counsels you feel have been neglected?
I am yet to consider a list, it is just something I have been contemplating for quite a few years.

In a post above, I suggested some items that could be included.

So the list would already be.

Love.
Individual right to basic life necessities.
Elimination of predudices of gender, race, nation and religion.

With Love, that would also require the two virtues of Trustworthiness and Truthfulness, as Love is impossible without those two virtues.
The OP was for people to offer others, as unity of humanity will take a joint effort.

Regards Tony
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
....I would think the vast majority of humanity already want and would embrace this Unity, so that is the perplexity we face, how will it be brought forward to be discussed on a global scale?

Regards Tony
If it was that wanting and embraceful, then we would likely have been there by now.

Probably because unity in reality isn't really a universal aspect of humanity nor a common universal goal without first having a major primary cause that triggers and compels people to act in unity.

We see that in disasters all the time for instance, but is never permanent because humanity just isn't naturally wired to go in that direction in any perpetual way.

People are just not hive minded nor drone like, making unity a very limited aspect of humanity, and probably is a good thing to ensure human evolution stays in the appropriate direction as humanity develops further and branches out in various ways.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

The Quran has a verse to polytheists that believed in God (but equated others on par with him):

فَلِذَٰلِكَ فَادْعُ ۖ وَاسْتَقِمْ كَمَا أُمِرْتَ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ ۖ وَقُلْ آمَنْتُ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنْ كِتَابٍ ۖ وَأُمِرْتُ لِأَعْدِلَ بَيْنَكُمُ ۖ اللَّهُ رَبُّنَا وَرَبُّكُمْ ۖ لَنَا أَعْمَالُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَالُكُمْ ۖ لَا حُجَّةَ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ ۖ اللَّهُ يَجْمَعُ بَيْنَنَا ۖ وَإِلَيْهِ الْمَصِيرُ | So summon to this [unity of religion], and be steadfast, just as you have been commanded, and do not follow their desires, and say, ‘I believe in whatever Book Allah has sent down. I have been commanded to do justice among you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord. Our deeds belong to us and your deeds belong to you. There is no quarrel between us and you. Allah will bring us together and toward Him is the destination.’ | Ash-Shura : 15

And said to people of the book, which can agree on more than that:

قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ كَلِمَةٍ سَوَاءٍ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمْ أَلَّا نَعْبُدَ إِلَّا اللَّهَ وَلَا نُشْرِكَ بِهِ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَتَّخِذَ بَعْضُنَا بَعْضًا أَرْبَابًا مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ ۚ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَقُولُوا اشْهَدُوا بِأَنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ | Say, ‘O People of the Book! Come to a common word between us and you: that we will worship no one but Allah, that we will not ascribe any partner to Him, and that some of us will not take some others as lords besides Allah.’ But if they turn away, say, ‘Be witnesses that we have submitted [to Allah].’ | Aal-i-Imraan : 64


Since people of the book agree only God should be worshiped and we should not obey our leaders while disobeying God as that would be metaphorically taking them as Lord, that's a working point.

For atheists, I would say the starting point would be, to feed the poor and strive for justice for the hungry and oppressed or help free the captives and justice in general. The Quran says if people are good, God will reward their goodness.

When people ask the wicked what put you in hell they say:

We use to not pray/connect.
And We use to deny the day of judgment
And we did not enjoy feeding the poor
And we use to vainly talk/act with the vain talkers/doers.

The Quran by this is saying, pick any of these and do the opposite, and you won't be in hell.

In another verse it says:

وَأَنْزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ ۖ فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ ۚ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنْكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَٰكِنْ لِيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَا آتَاكُمْ ۖ فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ ۚ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ | We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it of the Book and as a guardian over it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires against the truth that has come to you. For each [community] among you We had appointed a code [of law] and a path, and had Allah wished He would have made you one community, but [His purposes required] that He should test you in respect to what He has given you. So race in all good works. To Allah shall be the return of you all, whereat He will inform you concerning that about which you used to differ. | Al-Maaida : 48


Said elsewhere:

لَيْسُوا سَوَاءً ۗ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ أُمَّةٌ قَائِمَةٌ يَتْلُونَ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ آنَاءَ اللَّيْلِ وَهُمْ يَسْجُدُونَ | Yet they are not all alike. Among the People of the Book is an upright nation; they recite Allah’s signs in the watches of the night and prostrate. | Aal-i-Imraan : 113

يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَيُسَارِعُونَ فِي الْخَيْرَاتِ وَأُولَٰئِكَ مِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ | They have faith in Allah and the Last Day, and bid what is right and forbid what is wrong, and they are active in [performing] good deeds. Those are among the righteous. | Aal-i-Imraan : 114

وَمَا يَفْعَلُوا مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَلَنْ يُكْفَرُوهُ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِالْمُتَّقِينَ | Whatever good they do, they will not go unappreciated for it, and Allah knows well the Godwary. | Aal-i-Imraan : 115

And else where said:

"Whoever believes in God, God guides his heart"


So there all sorts of doors to heaven.

A door is to not take idols among humans and seek truth. Another door, is to seek justice and the heart will be soft for truth if we are humble enough to take side of oppressed. If we care about hungry, another way to soften heart and make it luminous.


Allah is the Goal but there is all sorts of avenues and doors that open the heart to guidance.

Another door is to simply pray to God humbly for guidance. Another is to reflect over the creation of God.

These are all doors.

At the end, it's not about intellectually knowing the truth. Its about having a heart that is luminous, soft, and good.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
An easy door per Quran is just to simply desire the next world and distance yourself from vain attachment to that which disappears. Desire God's face and permanent stay.

Sunnis and Shias for example can agree on that. So we can work from what we agree upon.
 
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