Unity in Submission to God’s Counsels.

[TransmutingSoul]

What do you think that event will be?

I live and teach that Baha'u'llah has come. That's my only job aside from my day job. Those who have heard that can take it from there.

Hard to say Trailblazer what it will be as it is an "unforeseen calamity".

In pilgrim notes, it is recorded that Shoghi Effendi said it will be an "interpretation of the news" it will happen overnight.

I am interested in the new science of the Tectonic plates, the new thoughts of the formation of this planet. It seems logical that it could be a major shift of the earth surface on the global scale that shakes the limbs on mankind. This also could, as the Bible prophecy has recorded, make the earth wobble like a drunkard.

Any city on the coastal fringes would be in grave danger, or for that matter, any city with massive high rise buildings.

That is all pure speculation.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly which "billions across nations" do you think have been "unified"? Please name the specific group(s).

I don't think that @TransmutingSoul means that "billions of nations" have been unified.
I think he means that certain religions such as Christianity and Islam have united billions of people who live in many nations.
In other words, Christians and Muslims are united in the sense that they share a common religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I can't count how many times I've thought of this cartoon while reading posts from our Baha'i members:

Having worked in Work Helath and Safety. I can offer it is very possible to adopt universal standards. It does work.

But I can also offer it is always made harder and is always held back by those that do not like change and skeptics who would rather rubbish the attempts than embrace and implement them.

Food for thought.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think that @TransmutingSoul means that "billions of nations" have been unified.
I think he means that certain religions such as Christianity and Islam have united billions of people who live in many nations.
In other words, Christians and Muslims are united in the sense that they share a common religion.

Members of faiths will appreciate this unity. You can travel to any country and visit homes of people that will embrace you as part of the family.

I have experience that unity across nations myself.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Exactly which "billions across nations" do you think have been "unified"? Please name the specific group(s).

Both Christianity and Islam have achieved a unity based on a Message given by God. Hinduism is a bit more complex, but has unity in practice, as offered on this forum by adherents.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes.
Unity in truth. We agree on what the speed of light is. We agree on the value of work, the value of education. The population has reached over 8 billion through agreement and working together.

Now we need to administer this across Nations, any idea how that may happen and on what principles will lay the foundation for global cooperation to foster the peace and security of all humanity?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Members of faiths will appreciate this unity. You can travel to any country and visit homes of people that will embrace you as part of the family.

I have experience that unity across nations myself.

Regards Tony

Christians and Muslims are united in the sense that they share a common religion, but since they are so divided in their beliefs they are not truly united.

Baha'is are united in the sense that they share a common religion but we also share the same beliefs.
We can travel to any country and visit homes of people that will embrace us as part of the family.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Christians and Muslims are united in the sense that they share a common religion, but since they are so divided in their beliefs they are not truly united.

Baha'is are united in the sense that they share a common religion but we also share the same beliefs.
We can travel to any country and visit homes of people that will embrace us as part of the family.

Yes, division is not part of their teachings though. Both their scriptures advise them of how to acheive unity and brother/sisterhood.

In saying that, there is a teaching to eschew fellowship with the ungodly, that is a can of worms though, as who are the ungodly? My idea on that would be the Covernant Breakers, not a person who is yet to embrace a particular faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, division is not part of their teachings though. Both their scriptures advise them of how to acheive unity and brother/sisterhood.

That might be true but I think it is too late for them to achieve unity and brotherhood now, since they are so divided.

In saying that, there is a teaching to eschew fellowship with the ungodly, that is a can of worms though, as who are the ungodly? My idea on that would be the Covernant Breakers, not a person who is yet to embrace a particular faith.

Godless is lack of Virtues.

God is likened to the Sun, the source of light and life. Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death. So from a faith perspective, Godliness is being made alive in the light of God which is all the virtues. In that context, a person of faith is to look for the light, from no...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Pete in Panama]

That's it, to me, plain and simple it is a No.

I see the peace and security of humanity is unattainable, unless and until Unity is firmly established...

We agree on that.

...and that unity is not possible while humanity as a majority do not follow the Counsels given by God....

Please help me understand what you mean here.

Are you saying that the majority of humankind don't follow the counsels given by God? If that's what you're saying then please explain how you could possibly know what 4 billion+ people have in their hearts? fwiw, my take is that I don't know for sure what the majority of humankind feels, but what I do see is an improving world and since I believe that this would only be possible if people were turning to God then I'd conclude that most people do in fact obey God's commands.

Do you feel I'm missing something?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Both Christianity and Islam have achieved a unity based on a Message given by God. Hinduism is a bit more complex, but has unity in practice, as offered on this forum by adherents.

Regards Tony

Both Christianity and Islam have people killing each other over doctrinal differences.

I don't know what your understanding of "unity" is, but it's sure nothing like mine.

 

[CG Didymus]

You're going to have to define "unity" and "god's counsels"

Then you bring god into it...

Religion is inherently divisive. It can never be a foundation of unity.

That being said, people thinking "humanity could work together so much better if everyone just accepted my religion" have been around as long as religion has.

Religion - including your religion - doesn't help unity between people. It just gets in the way.

I can't count how many times I've thought of this cartoon while reading posts from our Baha'i members:

What a mess... "God's" counsels? Each religion and each sect within a religion can have a different belief about Gods, God or no Gods. Some religions reject the religions of other people. Some Gods and religions, I would hope, that most of us can agree on, are mythical.

The cartoon is very accurate to the Baha'i situation. They do have a way to reconcile most all religions, but in the end those people in the other religions would then be expected to accept the Baha'i Faith as being the true and real fulfillment of their religion.

For those that believe in Krishna, Baha'u'llah is the return of Krishna as the Kalki Avatar. For Buddhist, for Christians and most all religions, Baha'u'llah is believed to be the one that was promised to return in those religions also.

Some people in those other religions have accepted Baha'u'llah as the one promised in their old religion. But do they still believe and practice their old religion? Maybe a few, but there is no need. The new "counsels" of God have given them new laws and beliefs to live by. Baha'is then, for all sorts of backgrounds are now "united" as Baha'is.

Trouble is... What about those people that don't believe Baha'u'llah is the return of their "promised" one? And they still believe in their old religion? Exactly what that cartoon shows, the Baha'is have just added themselves to the long list of religions. All claiming to have the truth and to know the truth. And they are all slightly to greatly different from each other.

Accept them all and don't worry about the contradictory beliefs? That's not going to happen as long as there are "fundamentalists" in some of the religions that don't want to be united with any of the other religions. And probably even believe that most or all those other religions are false and teach of false Gods.

The other way that could work, would be for everyone to accept the Baha'i Faith. Then the "counsels" of God that would become important for us would be anything the Baha'i Faith says. But, because like other religions that had a bunch of "God-given" laws, will it work? Lots of people were killed off in those other religions for breaking "God's" laws.

Except for murder and arson, at least with the Baha'is, I don't think there's capital punishment for anything else. But... because they do have laws against those things and so many more, how unified is that Baha'i world going to be? And it's recommended by Baha'u'llah that after a third offense that a thief gets a tattoo on his forehead and gets kicked out of town. Oh, and of course, no gay marriages, no drugs or alcohol... the normal religious kind of laws. Law that society has ever been able to live by. But at least we'll have religious unity.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I see it is possible and I see it will commence without religion, it will need to happen. The only thing I can add to that is that the way it needs to happen has already been given to us. So when humanity does commence the process, it will have to follow those guidelines, otherwise it will eventually break down and will not work.

Humanity has twice tried to foster a global peace based on National unities. First the League of Nations and secondly the United Nations. Both were founded on some of the Councels God has already given, but the mandates did not cover then all, thus they were always going to fall short of what they wanted to acheive.

This passage from Baha'u'llah contains a significant amount of Counsels that I see will ensure the peace and security of all humanity.

"...The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny.… The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language and one common script. When this is achieved, to whatsoever city a man may journey, it shall be as if he were entering his own home. These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action.... That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."

(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, pp. 249-250)

I think people can see the wisdom contained in that passage, the more the world tends towards conflict, the more that wisdom stands out.

Regards Tony

I don't see how, because it's just simply not in human nature to be drones like ants and bees are. We are social animals, not drones drivin by sheer instinct making unity all but impossible for our species.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Both Christianity and Islam have people killing each other over doctrinal differences.

I don't know what your understanding of "unity" is, but it's sure nothing like mine.

If people choose to look only at the negative, then that is all they will find.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

If people choose to look only at the negative, then that is all they will find.

Regards Tony

Conversely, if people only look at the positive they might end up being disappointed.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Conversely, if people only look at the positive they might end up being disappointed.

Perhaps it's not healthy to frown at the positive. My thinking is that most people are healthy and that means they rejoice at the good news and are disappointed at the bad news.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't see how, because it's just simply not in human nature to be drones like ants and bees are. We are social animals, not drones drivin by sheer instinct making unity all but impossible for our species.

Luckily, I see we do have the potential and we will choose to embrace unity. I see future generations will embrace the Oneness of humanity.

This shift in our mindset, at the moment, seems to require catastrophic events.

Regards Tony

We agree on that.

Please help me understand what you mean here.

Are you saying that the majority of humankind don't follow the counsels given by God? If that's what you're saying then please explain how you could possibly know what 4 billion+ people have in their hearts? fwiw, my take is that I don't know for sure what the majority of humankind feels, but what I do see is an improving world and since I believe that this would only be possible if people were turning to God then I'd conclude that most people do in fact obey God's commands.

Do you feel I'm missing something?

I see you are missing that the world is yet to find unity, thus the passage quoted would indicate that as humanity we are not following those Counsels. It is not about the judgement of any individual Pete, so it is incorrect to steer the OP in that direction.

I am thinking it is the instructions required for the Lesser Peace, but many thoughts come to mind when one reads this link, especially in the sequence they are posted.

Peace | Bahá’í Reference Library

A Compilation Prepared by the Research Department of the Universal House of Justice

www.bahai.org

I am thinking a list could be made from those quotes, as to what those Councels may be.

I am also sure we could find quotes reflecting this requirement in other scriptures. Life is bust at the moment, work and building.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Conversely, if people only look at the positive they might end up being disappointed.

There is no disappointment in a positive attitude, sometimes one faces a delay of the inevitable.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

My thinking is that most people are healthy and that means they rejoice at the good news and are disappointed at the bad news.

Yes, I think is what most people do.
I meant that if people only expect the good news they might be disappointed when they get bad news.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If people choose to look only at the negative, then that is all they will find.

Regards Tony

If our bar for what counts as "unity" is so low that Christianity have achieved it despite the Troubles of Ireland and Muslims have achieved it despite the Yemeni Civil War, then I'd say that we've already achieved worldwide "unity" across all of humanity without God.

You just have to choose to look at the positive to see it.