universal salvation makes no sense without reincarnation

[Starlight]

I believe that universal salvation, the belief that all humans is saved in the end makes no sense without reincarnation

I believe that if hell is temporary and reincarnation is false then there is no true justice. And many people may think that their actions does not matter since they only will suffer temporary in hell

Any thoughts?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Universal salvation, the belief that all humans is saved in the end makes no sense without reincarnation

Because if hell is temporary and reincarnation is false then there is no true justice. And many people may think that their actions does not matter since they only will suffer temporary in hell

Any thoughts?

Justice? The world is what it is. Everything is as God intended, why would any of us be punished for what God intended?

 

[Starlight]

Justice? The world is what it is. Everything is as God intended, why would any of us be punished for what God intended?

We humans is created in God's image. God is just and loving. Because of that we humans believe justice is important

 

[The Sum of Awe]

We humans is created in God's image. God is just and loving. Because of that we humans believe justice is important

Isn't God also beyond our understanding? Maybe God's idea of justice is beyond our understanding too, and it's written into this world.

 

[dybmh]

Universal salvation, the belief that all humans is saved in the end makes no sense without reincarnation

Because if hell is temporary and reincarnation is false then there is no true justice. And many people may think that their actions does not matter since they only will suffer temporary in hell

Any thoughts?

This is how I understand it. The length of time in the temporary hell, and the experience while there is determined by what a person does in their life. And of course, there are certain transgressions which render a complete disconnect to any afterlife.

In addition to this, during each person's life when they transgress, their soul accumulates a layer of unholy "stuff" for lack of a better word. This stuff is kind of like a callous. It renders the soul less sensitive, it is less able to appreciate the pleasure of holy pursuits. It is also less able to appreciate the pain of the transgression. The soul, itself, is less sensitive and is more likely to transgress again and again.

So the justice is happening on multiple levels. Here, while alive, a person is punished for their transgressions by not enjoying things as much as they can, and they are punished by the increased potential to increase and continue their transgressions. Then later, after death all of that "stuff" the soul accumulated needs to be removed. And that takes time and is supposed to be very painful. And all of this happens without any need for reincarnation at all. There is justice without reincarnation. At least in theory.

Now, I beleive reincarnation is possible. Though, I don't think it's required. And there's details here that I have skipped, and of course there's probably a lot I don't know about this lofty topic.

 

[Valjean]

Before discussion salvation, shouldn't we establish what it is we're to be saved from?

 

[Starlight]

Before discussion salvation, shouldn't we establish what it is we're to be saved from?

Universal salvation is the belief that all humans in the end go to heaven. So it is to be saved from hell

 

[Valjean]

How confident are we that this threat is actually real?

 

[Starlight]

How confident are we that this threat is actually real?

I am very confident that this threat is actually real

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

We humans is created in God's image. God is just and loving. Because of that we humans believe justice is important

You lost me when you said that we are created in your God's image and that your God is just and loving.

 

[Starlight]

You lost me when you said that we are created in your God's image and that your God is just and loving.

Do you not believe God is just and loving?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Do you not believe God is just and loving?

No, I don't believe that your God is just and loving.

 

[Starlight]

No, I don't believe that your God is just and loving.

What do you believe about God?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Universal salvation, the belief that all humans is saved in the end makes no sense without reincarnation

Because if hell is temporary and reincarnation is false then there is no true justice. And many people may think that their actions does not matter since they only will suffer temporary in hell

Any thoughts?

My only comment is that you have made several assertions of "facts" without providing anything that might make me think that they are true, let alone facts.

 

[Starlight]

My only comment is that you have made several assertions of "facts" without providing anything that might make me think that they are true, let alone facts.

Im sorry I have editet my post now to *I believe that universal salvation..* and *I believe that if hell is temporary and reincarnation..*

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

What do you believe about God?

I believe that your God, assuming that he exists, is a barbaric, sadistic, genocidal, morally depraved psychopath. In my opinion, the God of the Bible makes every single bloodthirsty tyrant throughout human history look like a revered holy man worthy of sainthood. And I say that as a former devout Christian.

 

[Starlight]

I believe that your God, assuming that he even exists, is a barbaric, sadistic, genocidal, morally depraved psychopath. As far as I'm concerned, the God of the Bible makes every single bloodthirsty tyrant throughout human history look like a revered holy man worthy of sainthood. And I say that as an ex-Christian.

So you do not believe in God, you are an atheist?

It is possible to believe in a God who is not the God of the bible. Both Deists and omnists believe God is beyond religion, that God has no spesific religion.

 

[Valjean]

Do you not believe God is just and loving?

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.​

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.​

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?" -- Epicurus.​

 

[Jimmy]

I believe that your God, assuming that he exists, is a barbaric, sadistic, genocidal, morally depraved psychopath. As far as I'm concerned, the God of the Bible makes every single bloodthirsty tyrant throughout human history look like a revered holy man worthy of sainthood. And I say that as an ex-Christian.

I think you’ve read the Bible wrong. I think you’ve interpreted it to literally. Or perhaps your parents did. Gotta keep things light.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

So you do not believe in God, you are an atheist?

It is possible to believe in a God who is not the God of the bible. Both Deists and omnists believe God is beyond religion, that God has no spesific religion.

No, I am not an atheist. I'm more of an agnostic when it comes to deities, but I do practice Wicca and follow spiritualism.