UPenn transgender swimmer continues dominant season with more record-breaking wins

[Aštra’el]

How many cis men have broken records in male sports? More than 1%?

If they can't set a record, then what's even the point of training and competing in the first place? Maybe we should create a separate male divison for all the male athletes who can't hack it in the top 5 of their chosen sport.

I see you intentionally left out the part about winning the gold and dominating the competition, which obviously happens much more frequently.

As far as records go. There are all-time records, there are seasonal and annual records, personal records, and others. There are those who lead their teammates to victory, and there are those who’ve proven to themselves as valuable assets beside them.

If I had identified as female in high school, I could have broken that school’s all-time female records for bench press, squat,100 meter dash, 200 meter dash, the 400 and maybe even the 800. This is the case for many of my male friends as well. Athletics was everything to us and we lived in the gym and on the field. Training combined with genetics meant that were it reversed, the same would not happen. Not a single girl from that school would have broken any of our records if she’d begun transitioning into a boy. It’s just reality.

I’ve worked out with and trained hard beside many female athletes over the years, then and now. I’ve encouraged and inspired many of them and they’ve done exactly the same for me, so don’t even try to bring up the narrative of “oh he doesn’t really care about women’s sports, he just looking for reason to be bigoted towards trans people”. I’ve heard that before but it has no basis in reality. I do care. I respect their achievements and I think it’s awesome when anyone pushes their body to the max and then some, and then goes out there and does something great with it.

This is the acknowledgement of biological differences between those born male and those born female, and what it means when creating divisions in sports between males and females.

____

And then there is this -

If they can't set a record, then what's even the point of training and competing in the first place?

What an exciting question.

Is the answer not obvious? To become bigger, faster, stronger, and the best you can become. To transform your body into a powerful machine so that you are better prepared for whatever comes at you, and for whoever comes at you, and to see how far that machine can take you, and in some cases, your team.

Because it feels good. Because the desire to be better, stronger, faster etc and the journey in doing so is a hunger that never goes away, but it is an adventure, with victories, setbacks, and then more victories. And countless memories adding value to your life so that there is nothing to regret. No what if’s. No what could have beens. Only what happened and what is happening. What will happen. Purpose.

There is also the achievement of victory. The victories when you compete of course- but also, and for some more importantly- the victory at the end of the day. The smaller victories during the workout, each and every time you make progress, when you remember what you were and you realize what you’ve become, and what you are becoming.

The image in my avatar, the goddess I depicted as an angelic demon prepared for battle, is the embodiment of all of this.

 

[Kooky]

I see you intentionally left out the part about winning the gold and dominating the competition, which obviously happens much more frequently.

Yes? Just how many cis male athletes have not only won gold, but done so by "dominating the competiton"?
Feel free to cite sources.

 

[Kooky]

If I had identified as female in high school, I could have broken that school’s all-time female records for bench press, squat,100 meter dash, 200 meter dash, the 400 and maybe even the 800.

No, you couldn't have. And I know this because I can tell that you are operating under a fundamental misconception just what legally transitioning towards the female gender factually entails in the US and most of the Western world.

You claiming you "identify as female" would have been the bare minimum first step on a years-long journey that you wouldn't even habe been allowed to complete before your 18th birthday in many Western countries.

You are resting your argument on the notion that trans women are not women, but simply men in dresses claiming to be women for ****s and giggles, which is simply a counterfactual notion without any basis in verifiable fact.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, you couldn't have. And I know this because I can tell that you are operating under a fundamental misconception just what legally transitioning towards the female gender factually entails in the US and most of the Western world.

You claiming you "identify as female" would have been the bare minimum first step on a years-long journey that you wouldn't even habe been allowed to complete before your 18th birthday in many Western countries.

You are resting your argument on the notion that trans women are not women, but simply men in dresses claiming to be women for ****s and giggles, which is simply a counterfactual notion without any basis in verifiable fact.

That sounds Kooky to me.

 

[Aštra’el]

.
You are resting your argument on the notion that trans women are not women, but simply men in dresses claiming to be women for ****s and giggles, which is simply a counterfactual notion without any basis in verifiable fact.

No, that’s just the way you are misrepresenting my position. But what’s new.

 

[Kooky]

No, that’s just the way you are misrepresenting my position. But what’s new.

Did you completely miss what I said about your baseless claim that simply claiming to be a woman would have allowed you to take part in female-only competitions?

Here are the relevant portions of my post that you missed:

You claiming you "identify as female" would have been the bare minimum first step on a years-long journey that you wouldn't even habe been allowed to complete before your 18th birthday in many Western countries.

Would you like to address your misconceptions, or are you good pretending you know everything you can about trans women and transitioning?

 

[Aštra’el]

@Kooky

Male athletes have a significantly easier time excelling in women’s sports after transitioning into a woman/ girl, than a woman/girl who was born female. There are genetic factors as well, but overall those genetic factors tend to favor those who were born male. It makes sense to me to keep everyone who was born male out of women’s sports, out of respect and consideration for the females who train just as hard as any man to make something of themselves.

That is my position on the subject.

 

[ElishaElijah]

A man will always be a man, all he can do is mess himself up by trying to look and act like a female by trying to transition himself medically, surgically and by a lot of make-up.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Because God created them male and female.

Sure, but sometimes things go wrong. Look at intersex people.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Sure, but sometimes things go wrong. Look at intersex people.

That isn’t this swimmer dude.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That isn’t this swimmer dude.

But at least you admit that it's not always black and white and that things go wrong at times?

 

[ElishaElijah]

But at least you admit that it's not always black and white and that things go wrong at times?

What we are talking about with this swimmer and other men competing in women’s sports is black and white.
As for the intersexual person you are referencing, you would have to show an example on what you’re talking because this is probably rare and similar to a birth defect not what is going on now with people like the swimmer.

 

[Kooky]

@Kooky

Male athletes have a significantly easier time excelling in women’s sports after transitioning into a woman/ girl, than a woman/girl who was born female. There are genetic factors as well, but overall those genetic factors tend to favor those who were born male. It makes sense to me to keep everyone who was born male out of women’s sports, out of respect and consideration for the females who train just as hard as any man to make something of themselves.

Female athletes with high testosterone levels have a significantly easier time excelling in women’s sports than athletes with low testosterone levels. I take it you also support policies that prevent cis women with high testosterone levels from competing in all-female athletic divisions, correct? After all, it is only fair that certain cis women be kept from competing with other cis women if they have too much of an unfair advantage due to their biological bodies. Don't you think?

 

[Kooky]

A man will always be a man, all he can do is mess himself up by trying to look and act like a female by trying to transition himself medically, surgically and by a lot of make-up.

And gods will always be imaginary, but that's not stopping you from assuming they're real in spite all evidence to the contrary. If you really believe that transgender people are made up, then it shouldn't be too hard to extend the same courtesy towards them that people show you by indulging your fantasies about supernatural beings. Don't you think?

 

[ElishaElijah]

And gods will always be imaginary, but that's not stopping you from assuming they're real in spite all evidence to the contrary. If you really believe that transgender people are made up, then it shouldn't be too hard to extend the same courtesy towards them that people show you by indulging your fantasies about supernatural beings. Don't you think?

What I think is people like yourself talk like that because they haven’t known God for themselves so to them He is imaginary.
What God says in Scripture:
“The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread, And do not call on the Lord? There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous. You shame the counsel of the poor, But the Lord is his refuge.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭14:1-6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What we are talking about with this swimmer and other men competing in women’s sports is black and white.
As for the intersexual person you are referencing, you would have to show an example on what you’re talking because this is probably rare and similar to a birth defect not what is going on now with people like the swimmer.

I'm not referring to anyone in particular. I'm just pointing out that biological sex isn't always black and white and that things can go wrong. Transsexualism appears to be a medical condition, perhaps a sort of intersex condition. We're not sure what causes it. Now, I will also say that not everyone who calls themselves "trans" or "transgender" is a transsexual. That's a very specific thing and very rare. At this point, most of the people calling themselves that are not transsexuals.

 

[Revoltingest]

What God says in Scripture:
“The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. ‬‬

That's quite a judgmental piece of work.
It strikes me as virulent hate speech & bigotry.
I hope that few believe it.

 

[Aštra’el]

That's quite a judgmental piece of work.
It strikes me as virulent hate speech & bigotry.
I hope that few believe it.

“Virulent hate speech and bigotry”? Seriously?

 

[Revoltingest]

“Virulent hate speech and bigotry”? Seriously?

Very serious.
Red the text.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's quite a judgmental piece of work.
It strikes me as virulent hate speech & bigotry.
I hope that few believe it.

I hope people would reflect on what the Scriptures say but how is that judgemental, hate speech and bigotry? Please explain.
In our society I find this to be quite accurate. The other thing is that by your comment you still have a conscience, this also is evidence of God and a gift from Him.