US officially quits Paris climate accord

[Notanumber]

Meanwhile back in the real world.

First UK deep coal mine in decades to go ahead

West Cumbria Mining said on its website: "A study in America showed a coal mine with 300 employees indirectly creates at least twice as many jobs in the region, as employees have more disposable income than previously, which impacts on local spending with retail, leisure, construction etc.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Only problem with that is combatting climate change is a global affair

We shall see, can't say he has been a great example at anything except in his own mind

That's fine... we can remain divided.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's fine... we can remain divided.

It is foolish to make oneself not.part of the process. We cannot have any say on how this problem is handled internationally, we are going to be on the outside looking in. And members of this could use this agreement to hit the U.S. with tariffs or other punishments if we did not toe their line.

Do you really think that this is a smart thing to do?

 

[robocop (actually)]

It is foolish to make oneself not.part of the process. We cannot have any say on how this problem is handled internationally, we are going to be on the outside looking in. And members of this could use this agreement to hit the U.S. with tariffs or other punishments if we did not toe their line.

Do you really think that this is a smart thing to do?

I don't know how to get other countries on board except either restrict them or set an example.

 

[Shad]

And if we don't make some inconvenient sacrifices now, it will basically assure these great grandchildren will be living under dictators who will force them to, and to far greater extents.

There is the issue if the sacrifice is by choice or government edict. So far India and China get to keep building coal power plants and have peak emission around 2030 when everyone else must "sacrifice". Where is their sacrifice? India opened about 130 new coal plant over the last decade. Where is their sacrifice of having to reduce power consumption to build cleaner energy sources? Both nations' goal of 1st world status overrides any idea of sacrifice compared to other nations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't know how to get other countries on board except either restrict them or set an example.

But the restrictions we could introduce on our own would be very limited. And since we are not part of the accord they could put restrictions on us.

 

[ChristineM]

That's fine... we can remain divided.

Divided is not the answer to climate change but hey, ho, what more can we expect from trump. Hopefully your next president will have more sense

 

[Notanumber]

As if, China is not going to take advantage of the CO2 fiasco.

 

[metis]

Why should we do what is known to be harmful just because some others are doing harmful things? Also, in this case especially, there's much to be gained even in other areas by reducing carbon emissions.

Not everything needs to be done all at once as we gradually put ourselves into this mess, thus we can gradually work our way out of it. But we do need to start right away because if we screw this up by just talking, our children and grandchildren may pay a horrible price down the line. Ignorance and carelessness have consequences, so just sitting around and playing with our navels is not likely to be a good idea.

IOW, to just do nothing makes no sense based on what the science is rather clearly telling us.

 

[Notanumber]

11,000 scientists, really?

 

[metis]

So, the scientists at the NAS, NASA, and even our the scientific advisers to our own Department of Defense are either total fools or are dishonest or both, eh? And the myriads of articles I've read on global warming over the last couple of decades in "Scientific American" and other science sources are based on nothing but the supposed ignorance and/or dishonesty of climate scientists, eh?

But put out an editorial piece that's not backed up with any peer-reviewed evidence is all fine & dandy, eh?

Sorry that I'm not impressed, and neither would a good friend who works in Antarctica for 6-9 months of the year be impressed.

 

[Notanumber]

So, the scientists at the NAS, NASA, and even our the scientific advisers to our own Department of Defense are either total fools or are dishonest or both, eh? And the myriads of articles I've read on global warming over the last couple of decades in "Scientific American" and other science sources are based on nothing but the supposed ignorance and/or dishonesty of climate scientists, eh?

But put out an editorial piece that's not backed up with any peer-reviewed evidence is all fine & dandy, eh?

Sorry that I'm not impressed, and neither would a good friend who works in Antarctica for 6-9 months of the year be impressed.

Who is paying the wages of your good friend?

 

[metis]

Scientific programs are usually funded through multiple sources, directly or indirectly.

 

[Notanumber]

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The Hell they did. Most of them wanted to eat the next day...

I think you give far too little credit to the hopes of people, then or now. Even Shakespeare, 4 centuries ago, could use people's concern for their progeny in a memorable speech (from Richard II):

Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
That lift your vassal hands against my head
And threat the glory of my precious crown.

 

[BSM1]

I think you give far too little credit to the hopes of people, then or now. Even Shakespeare, 4 centuries ago, could use people's concern for their progeny in a memorable speech (from Richard II):

Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
That lift your vassal hands against my head
And threat the glory of my precious crown.

Yeah, I'm surprised that I forgot to bring Shakespearean characters into the discussion...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yeah, I'm surprised that I forgot to bring Shakespearean characters into the discussion...

You may be as tongue-in-cheek as you like, and I don't mind. But I will say first that I am a huge lover of the Bard, have written my own one-man show working my way through his life and work (in which I quote some 2 solid hours of the plays, sonnets and poems), and in which I find a treasure trove of wisdom.

But my real point was to respond to your suggestion that people before the present age weren't concerned for their children's futures, but only for the present. I just don't happen to think that's true, and I think that's a positive thing about human nature.

 

[Shad]

Yeah, I'm surprised that I forgot to bring Shakespearean characters into the discussion...

Just type thee and thou a lot.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is incredible and saddening that there is still Climate Change denial in 2019.

It is if anything even more of a shame than the anti-vaccine movement.

 

[BSM1]

You may be as tongue-in-cheek as you like, and I don't mind. But I will say first that I am a huge lover of the Bard, have written my own one-man show working my way through his life and work (in which I quote some 2 solid hours of the plays, sonnets and poems), and in which I find a treasure trove of wisdom.

But my real point was to respond to your suggestion that people before the present age weren't concerned for their children's futures, but only for the present. I just don't happen to think that's true, and I think that's a positive thing about human nature.

You're entitled to your opinion, I guess..