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US officially quits Paris climate accord

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Evidence does, it's just the evidence I care about doesn't have a 2,000 year "cap". I've studied some data as old as 10,000 years. We're still cooler than then, so to me "climate change" is hype. If anything the Sun has far more impact on these events than what we're having.

Of course we are still cooler. There was a warming trend around that time. http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ngeo2953

There are many factors that effect our climate, and the balance within the carbon cycle is one of them. Given the correlation between carbon emissions by humans and climate trends, it is likely our industrial activity is affecting our environment. And not just climate, but in toxicity and disruption of other systems. Ignoring the data is irresponsible.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Please do not fall into this "sky is falling" trap. No where in the articles you cited do they provide one scintilla of proof that "climate change" was instrumental in causing one death anywhere! You can believe whatever you wish, but facts, especially scientific facts, are tricky little devils. Where's the proof? It's a hoax...


Please dont get onto this rose tinted sunglasses crap. Those articles were clear enough and there is more to see is you could be bothered

Fact, global temperature rise
Fact, warming oceans
Fact, shrinking ice sheets
Fact, glacial retreat
Fact, decreased snow cover
Fact, rising sea levels
Fact, declining arctic sea ice
Fact, extreme temperature events
Fact, ocean acidification

No hoax is killing people
 

leov

Well-Known Member
US Formally Notifies United Nations of Withdrawal From Paris Climate Accord - State Department
"US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo confirmed Monday that the US had kicked off the formal withdrawal process, while stressing that Washington is proud of its "record as a world leader in reducing all emissions".
Attributing long-term sea-level rise to Paris Agreement emission pledges
"The multicentennial sea-level rise commitment of pledged near-term emission reduction efforts under the Paris Agreement has not been quantified yet. We here estimate this sea-level rise commitment and find that pledged emissions until 2030 lock in 1-m sea-level rise in the year 2300. Our analysis highlights the defining role of present-day emissions for future sea-level rise and points to the potential of reducing the long-term sea-level-rise commitment by more ambitious national emission reduction targets."
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Please do not fall into this "sky is falling" trap. No where in the articles you cited do they provide one scintilla of proof that "climate change" was instrumental in causing one death anywhere! You can believe whatever you wish, but facts, especially scientific facts, are tricky little devils. Where's the proof? It's a hoax...
If you do not understand the sciences you really should not be debating.

First off science is based upon evidence. There is no "proof" in science. There is overwhelming evidence for AGW. Second since weather varies quite a bit it is impossible to blame any storm on AGW, but AGW does have a pattern that is making things worse. You can't win a debate by using your ignorance of a subject as a weapon and that is what you just tried to do.

Can we say that any particular fire was sparked by AGW in California? No, but we can show that the pattern of firs is worse.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Please dont get onto this rose tinted sunglasses crap. Those articles were clear enough and there is more to see is you could be bothered

Fact, global temperature rise
Fact, warming oceans
Fact, shrinking ice sheets
Fact, glacial retreat
Fact, decreased snow cover
Fact, rising sea levels
Fact, declining arctic sea ice
Fact, extreme temperature events
Fact, ocean acidification

No hoax is killing people


Okay. Have a nice day...
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
If you do not understand the sciences you really should not be debating.

First off science is based upon evidence. There is no "proof" in science. There is overwhelming evidence for AGW. Second since weather varies quite a bit it is impossible to blame any storm on AGW, but AGW does have a pattern that is making things worse. You can't win a debate by using your ignorance of a subject as a weapon and that is what you just tried to do.

Can we say that any particular fire was sparked by AGW in California? No, but we can show that the pattern of firs is worse.

There's no proof in science??? Well, no wonder we can't have an intelligent discussion....

Ok, name one scientist that has gone public and declared that climate change has killed anyone. One scientist by name...anyone...just one out of the great consensus in the scientific community? Just one scientist by name....
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
???

We are talking trump here, not south American populism which trump is so scared of he wants a wall. But i do agree some of that site mirrors trump very well...

Just as importantly, however, such governments have also made a point of undermining informal democratic norms, such as conflict of interest laws, financial transparency, or respect for opposition. Here the damage may go deeper and be far less reversible: such norms and informal rules are the product of decades of elite and popular interactions. Once such trust and consensus disappears, it is not be easy to bring it back.
I'm not trying to pick sides for everybody on religious forums... I just think Trump has done this one thing.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
There's no proof in science??? Well, no wonder we can't have an intelligent discussion....

Ok, name one scientist that has gone public and declared that climate change has killed anyone. One scientist by name...anyone...just one out of the great consensus in the scientific community? Just one scientist by name....
Making foolish demands only makes you look foolish. I just explained to you why they could not make that claim and you repeated your error.

And talk to any scientist. They will explain to you how nothing is proven absolutely in the sciences. You should have learned this in high school.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
"The United States produced 5.14 billion metric tons of carbon-dioxide equivalent greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in 2017, the lowest since the early 1990s,[1] but still the second largest in the world after greenhouse gas emissions by China and amongst the worst countries by greenhouse gas emissions per person."
Greenhouse gas emissions by the United States - Wikipedia
That is true but we have reduced our CO2 emissions more than rest of the world which is what Trump meant by world leader in reduced CO2 emissions.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Of course not. When the real trouble hits he will long be dead. Has there ever been a President with less empathy than tRump?
That's why narcissists , sociopaths and Psychopaths, in general arguably make the best leaders. They make decisions that no one else can without the emotional Hang-Ups.

It's a double-edged sword I would say but no one can deny that Trump is getting things done where nothing was done before.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That is true but we have reduced our CO2 emissions more than rest of the world which is what Trump meant by world leader in reduced CO2 emissions.
None of which can be attributed to Trump, and in fact there was a rather large jump in carbon dioxide production by the U.S. last year.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That's why narcissists , sociopaths and Psychopaths, in general arguably make the best leaders. They make decisions that no one else can without the emotional Hang-Ups.

It's a double-edged sword I would say but no one can deny that Trump is getting things done where nothing was done before.
You mean worst leaders. They may be charismatic, but the actions they take often take years to put right.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I hinted the information might be out there... If you care, that's enough. We don't live in the age where someone has to put a list of citations with their post. If you think they're wrong see what they're reading and see why they think what they do.

There are still plenty of real scientists doing work and they put a lot of the information on the Internet -- unfortunately, they don't live anywhere in the USA. That is applicable toward a number of fields, BTW, not just "climate change" nonsense, but also psychology and other medical fields. In the USA, the academic powers that be have given up science for politics or religion. So, yes, I generally will immediately seek contrary information to their claims -- because I don't believe a damn thing they say unless other sources back them up. There are about 20 "academic research" organizations that just rubber stamp whatever nonsense NOAA or NASA put out and tow the political line. Don't blame me for having an issue with that, anyone truly rational should. Realize also that if climate change is complete bull these guys lose a lot of money. It's not so much that they're into the truth, but that they're into the funding. Just Occam's Razor in effect here... I have nothing to gain either way by hinting that they're not presenting the whole story, so think whatever you want. These are the same guys that said the ice caps are melting, that we'd be in a desert in the middle of the country by now, and that low-lying areas at the coast would be submerged. They were wrong on all that -- why am I supposed to trust another damn thing coming out of their mouths? Citations or not, it's just absurd to take them at their word for anything.

NOAA, especially, has been going back and "refactoring" their historical temp data and other such nonsense for awhile. We have copies of data before 1970, and we know what those numbers are -- they are not the numbers they publish. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it's just bull**** is what it is. :D
Funny. I didn't see a single scientific link or paper in this post.

Who has the evidence, again?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Please do not fall into this "sky is falling" trap. No where in the articles you cited do they provide one scintilla of proof that "climate change" was instrumental in causing one death anywhere! You can believe whatever you wish, but facts, especially scientific facts, are tricky little devils. Where's the proof? It's a hoax...
You are hilarious.

You respond to posts of people who present absolutely no evidence, but happen to agree with you, with snide statements like "How dare you bring facts into this argument!", and then any time anybody presents something that contains links to actual, scientific studies and sources, you just assert "there's no proof! It's a hoax!"

Your double-standard is absurd.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What he has done is quit an international forum because he thinks (despite the evidence) that he is better
He thinks he can do it right and that the Paris Accord was unfair to America, but said he'd be a great example to the rest of the world in reducing emissions.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
He thinks he can do it right and that the Paris Accord was unfair to America, but said he'd be a great example to the rest of the world in reducing emissions.

Only problem with that is combatting climate change is a global affair

We shall see, can't say he has been a great example at anything except in his own mind
 
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