USA Death Penalty

[McBell]

All governments, whether they have a death penalty or not, make decisions that cause inadvertent deaths.

What is it you think is "inadvertent" about the death penalty?

 

[Shaul]

What is it you think is "inadvertent" about the death penalty?

Why would I think a death penalty was intentionally designed to kill inadvertently?

 

[Altfish]

That is a separate problem requiring a separate solution. The logical solution for people with ongoing murderous intent is to eliminate them, and thereby eliminate the ongoing threat they pose to everyone else.

Again, this is not the issue at hand. If our judicial system is failing us, then we need to fix it. But that is a subject for another thread. This thread is about the execution of people convicted of murder. And my opinion is that we should only execute those that have shown themselves to pose an ongoing threat to the lives of others. That would be people that commit mass murder, serial murder, terroristic murder, and thrill killers that abduct and torture people. Most murderers are not of this type, and should not be executed, in my opinion, because they do not pose an ongoing threat to the lives of others, and they could even be a benefit to others while incarcerated. They also could be reformed to the point of being let back among society again.

The problem is, there will always be miscarriages of justice. New evidence comes to light, evidence is corrupted or hidden, etc.
Money has a way of influencing decisions; pressure put on the police to 'get a result', a public clamor for justice (aka revenge) all lead to bad convictions.

 

[Shaul]

The problem is, there will always be miscarriages of justice. New evidence comes to light, evidence is corrupted or hidden, etc.
Money has a way of influencing decisions; pressure put on the police to 'get a result', a public clamor for justice (aka revenge) all lead to bad convictions.

All of which is applicable to any adjudication and is not unique to death penalty cases.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's how I view the death penalty overall outside of rare instances

Basically. I had in mind how public executions used to be the entertainment for the week, or the Black Mirror episode White Bear, but I can see your point.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, if innocent people are being convicted, then we need to fix our judicial system....

It's never been perfect.
It's never been fixed.
Can't assume that it ever will be.
Killing might satisfy some, but
it's not worth the cost.

 

[Heyo]

All governments, whether they have a death penalty or not, make decisions that cause inadvertent deaths.

Some governments, whether they have a death penalty or not, try to minimize inadvertent deaths.

 

[Heyo]

Since we have no idea, according to you, who is innocent and who is not, there can be no possible answer to your foolish question.

You seem to have an aversion to answer questions that, I assume, cause cognitive dissonance in you.
Case in point, my question in post #290.

 

[Altfish]

All of which is applicable to any adjudication and is not unique to death penalty cases.

Correct, but there is a finality about the death sentence.
Most of the miscarriages I listed were later released and compensated.

 

[PureX]

The problem is, there will always be miscarriages of justice. New evidence comes to light, evidence is corrupted or hidden, etc.
Money has a way of influencing decisions; pressure put on the police to 'get a result', a public clamor for justice (aka revenge) all lead to bad convictions.

Perfection is not an ideal what we humans can ever reasonably demand. Nevertheless, we still need to make decisions and act on them logically and reasonably even knowing that perfection is not possible for us.

 

[PureX]

It's never been perfect.
It's never been fixed.
Can't assume that it ever will be.
Killing might satisfy some, but
it's not worth the cost.

Keeping them alive is not worth the risk they pose to everyone else.

 

[PureX]

You seem to have an aversion to answer questions that, I assume, cause cognitive dissonance in you.
Case in point, my question in post #290.

It's a stupid question. I don't bother answering stupid questions. If anyone deliberately breaks the laws or rules of the current judicial system to falsely convict somone, they can already be prosecuted for that. If someone is wrongfully convicted even as the system was followed properly, we cannot hold anyone responsible since they were doing as they were being instructed to do by the rules of the system. And if people are breaking those rules and still not being prosecuted for it then we need to fix this problem. Or fix the rules if they aren't doing what they are intended to do. Either way, this issue has nothing to do with the question of what to do with convicted murderers.

 

[McBell]

Keeping them alive is not worth the risk they pose to everyone else.

How many innocent deaths are acceptable?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All of which is applicable to any adjudication and is not unique to death penalty cases.

The difference is that in the death penalty you can not reverse the decision and set the innocent free. Or compensate them.
Death is irreversible.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's a stupid question. I don't bother answering stupid questions. If anyone deliberately breaks the laws or rules of the current judicial system to falsely convict somone, they can already be prosecuted for that. If someone is wrongfully convicted even as the system was followed properly, we cannot hold anyone responsible since they were doing as they were being instructed to do by the rules of the system. And if people are breaking those rules and still not being prosecuted for it then we need to fix this problem. Or fix the rules if they aren't doing what they are intended to do. Either way, this issue has nothing to do with the question of what to do with convicted murderers.

Of course miscarriages of justice can have everything to do with convicted murderers.
Literally hundreds of such convictions have proved in error and innocents executed.

 

[PureX]

Of course miscarriages of justice can have everything to do with convicted murderers.
Literally hundreds of such convictions have proved in error and innocents executed.

None of them were mass murderers, serial murderers, or terroristic murderers, though.

 

[Heyo]

If anyone deliberately breaks the laws or rules of the current judicial system to falsely convict somone, they can already be prosecuted for that.

Can they? Are they?
I really don't know. I've been under the impression that "qualified immunity" covers even that.

Does anyone know of suits against cops who falsified evidence or against DAs who withheld evidence? (Especially if that led to a wrongful execution.)

 

[PureX]

Can they? Are they?
I really don't know. I've been under the impression that "qualified immunity" covers even that.

Does anyone know of suits against cops who falsified evidence or against DAs who withheld evidence? (Especially if that led to a wrongful execution.)

Yes. There were several of these against both cops and prosecutors in Chicago years ago. The cops were using torture to get confessions and the prosecutôrs were burying information. People were exonerated and let out of prison because of it. And it resulted in a state ban on executions. This was decades ago.

 

[Revoltingest]

Keeping them alive is not worth the risk they pose to everyone else.

You've never provided any evidence that a
murderer serving life without parole got
out to kill again, & that this is a bigger
problem than government's trying to kill
innocent people who were victimized by
justice system incompetence & corruption.

 

[PureX]

You've never provided any evidence that a
murderer serving life without parole got
out to kill again, & that this is a bigger
problem than government's trying to kill
innocent people who were victimized by
justice system incompetence & corruption.

Why would I make your argument for you? You have a computer, use it. Anyway, it's irrelevant to the possibility of it happening in the future.

Also, didn't one escape in PA. just six months ago? I remember there was a big manhunt for a convicted murderer.