USA - The Good Samaritan

[Gabethewiking]

Because it's extremely relevant. Nation-wide poverty obviously correlates with shoddy infrastructure, which is why the earthquake hit them so badly in the first place. The quake itself wasn't really that extreme. We've had worse ones up here in the states that barely damaged anything, but because they're too poor to afford modern well-constructed buildings, even a small earthquake in Haiti can kill thousands. Their poverty is relevant because that's the real reason they're in such a mess right now.

It has nothing to do with feeling better about myself, and I don't even know how you could have reached that conclusion.

I apologize if i sound harsh but i really do not understand the point as a relation to the topic at hand. Yes, they are poor, poverty usually included poor infrastructure and so on, we are not talking about the actual poverty here, we know that, it is like you want to talk about how we could SOLVE the poverty, but how is that related to this? Hence my confusion.

I am currently down in Peru and we had a earthquake a little while back but no real problem really.

 

[Gabethewiking]

However you look at it, I pay way more than that in taxes every year so I don't owe it as she claims. I would be willing to bet that I pay more taxes in a year than many of the folks posting in this thread make in a year. That pretty much means I am paying my share and yours (for those that actually live in the US).

I live in the U.S, I am an American but currently down in Peru. I wonder, when i see your post, the angry man behind it. I am not attacking you, it is just that all your post is filled with anger. You clearly do not want to help people, we "get it", you are your own nation, your own castle and all that, but you live in a society that exist because of our human tribal needs.

You pay taxes, these taxes goes to infrastructure in the country, be it roads or schooling, sure, our schools are not the best but that is generally religious thoughts fault wanting to prevent proper education. You know, as soon as I am in a third world country and see other Americans i understand why people consider us **********. Oh, and they do enchanted, Trust me, I travelled, I know what the general consensus is about us.

And I would agree, Listen to yourself, "I have more money in my wallet now then El Salvadors government" ignoring WHY El Salvador is poor (Check U.S HISTORY), you seem completely unaware of what we as a nation do and have done, as well as seem to think that we are some magic kingdom where problems do not occure. you should go over to Europe and see how our "mighty dollar" is compared to the Euro, which after around 10 years is now the most circulated money (in value) in the world.... You do know how much we get for our dollar right?......

Maybe some courtesy for the rest of the world would do you good. one second you talk about how "poor you are/where" and you had to do "everything for yourself" (yet I bet your computer you are using is japanese, no no, you would have a low budget american one..... See the irony?) and the next second you pay more taxes then the entire forum, a Forum with Thousands of individuals from various areas of the world much wealthier then the country you are from. Some courtesy... Or just... Think a bit before opening your mouth?

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Even elementary school?

I went to a private elementary school. It was not free.

I live in the U.S, I am an American but currently down in Peru. I wonder, when i see your post, the angry man behind it. I am not attacking you, it is just that all your post is filled with anger. You clearly do not want to help people, we "get it", you are your own nation, your own castle and all that, but you live in a society that exist because of our human tribal needs.

You pay taxes, these taxes goes to infrastructure in the country, be it roads or schooling, sure, our schools are not the best but that is generally religious thoughts fault wanting to prevent proper education. You know, as soon as I am in a third world country and see other Americans i understand why people consider us **********. Oh, and they do enchanted, Trust me, I travelled, I know what the general consensus is about us.

And I would agree, Listen to yourself, "I have more money in my wallet now then El Salvadors government" ignoring WHY El Salvador is poor (Check U.S HISTORY), you seem completely unaware of what we as a nation do and have done, as well as seem to think that we are some magic kingdom where problems do not occure. you should go over to Europe and see how our "mighty dollar" is compared to the Euro, which after around 10 years is now the most circulated money (in value) in the world.... You do know how much we get for our dollar right?......

Maybe some courtesy for the rest of the world would do you good. one second you talk about how "poor you are/where" and you had to do "everything for yourself" (yet I bet your computer you are using is japanese, no no, you would have a low budget american one..... See the irony?) and the next second you pay more taxes then the entire forum, a Forum with Thousands of individuals from various areas of the world much wealthier then the country you are from. Some courtesy... Or just... Think a bit before opening your mouth?

I am not claiming to be wealthy. I have a family to take care of so I don't get to keep the money I do make. In fact we struggle. My point is that when people that live with their mommies and have no responsibility toss a figure like $4,000.00 out there thinking it is an unattainable amount, I have fired back telling how I have paid that and more annually. I have nothing against those in college, but often in a debate like this they try to toss book theory around knowing nothing about actual practical economics. You cannot mature and you cannot truly be wise until you build your own nest and survive a winter in it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My point is that when people that live with their mommies and have no responsibility toss a figure like $4,000.00 out there thinking it is an unattainable amount, I have fired back telling how I have paid that and more annually. I have nothing against those in college, but often in a debate like this they try to toss book theory around knowing nothing about actual practical economics.

I'm fairly certain that Alceste doesn't "live with her mommy", and I don't think she's in college.

I'm glad you explained what you meant by your response, because when I first read it, it sounded like a misunderstanding of basic arithmetic: like "I can't owe $4000 because I paid more than that in tax!"

And frankly, the way you defend military spending makes me wonder how good you are with practical economics yourself. It comes off a lot like someone saying "but I need an Escalade! How else will I get my kids to school?!"

You cannot mature and you cannot truly be wise until you build your own nest and survive a winter in it.

It seems like you're assuming that people in this thread who don't agree with you do so out of naivity or lack of experience. Why?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I never got a free education. I had to work for everything.

What about grades K-12?

I have never taken a Government hand out as an adult. I see it as I have been blessed. I also see helping others as a blessing. The amount of resources that the average American uses is a crime against or planet and humanity. We must give to others or else this country of ours is a leach. We would end up standing alone against the rest of the world. American power not only comes from military might but the support of are allies.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

However you look at it, I pay way more than that in taxes every year so I don't owe it as she claims. I would be willing to bet that I pay more taxes in a year than many of the folks posting in this thread make in a year. That pretty much means I am paying my share and yours (for those that actually live in the US).

I will bet you I pay as much or more then you do. So what! I should! I love my country and I have been given a lot. Should I not be willing to give Back. It seems like your saying that both rich and poor should pay the same amount of taxes. This is not how any successful modern country works. It's clear, you have no understanding of Macro Economics.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have never taken a Government hand out as an adult.

Everybody takes a government handout in one form or another.

For instance, gasoline taxes aren't enough to fully fund roads. If you drive, or even if you buy products that are shipped by truck, you've indirectly received the benefit of a government "handout".

 

[Gabethewiking]

I went to a private elementary school. It was not free.

I am not claiming to be wealthy. I have a family to take care of so I don't get to keep the money I do make. In fact we struggle. My point is that when people that live with their mommies and have no responsibility toss a figure like $4,000.00 out there thinking it is an unattainable amount, I have fired back telling how I have paid that and more annually. I have nothing against those in college, but often in a debate like this they try to toss book theory around knowing nothing about actual practical economics. You cannot mature and you cannot truly be wise until you build your own nest and survive a winter in it.

To start with I would like to apologize, I was far to harsh in previous comment and reading your current response I see what you mean/meant a bit better.


Saying that I would like to point out some things regarding your views:


1. - "I am not claiming to be wealthy."

Why in the name of god would anyone here care if you are poor or wealthy?
How is it relevant to anyone debating here? How does it change the facts of the world if Penguin or Yogi are poor or rich? Why are you telling us about your money or lack thereof?


2. - "My point is that when people that live with their mommies and have no responsibility toss a figure like $4,000.00 out there thinking it is an unattainable amount"

Why and how is anyones private in real life related to the debate at hand? It seems that you use the claimed excuse that "they" have not lived or done or seen what you have and therefore any opinion they have is irrelevant or flat out wrong.

Is this not the way you potray your point?


Final. - "You cannot mature and you cannot truly be wise until you build your own nest and survive a winter in it"

I agree with you completely on this!
But that is also my own subjective opinion, many people would not agree and give logical and well thought out reasons to why they do not agree. My view (subjective) is that you need to "build your own nest" before you truly "get it", but that is formed by my own experiences in life, I lived in complete poverty as well as been financially independent, I had nothing to eat in the middle of Africa and refused to ask anyone for help, I feel that my experiences and mishaps in life has made me grow as a man, I am on my Second Wife at the moment, I hope it will work out and I love her dearly, but you never know what will happen in life and I take it as it goes and have become extremely relaxed in my life (no stomach acid here) all of this is fine and dandy but also my own experiences and opinions, I could arrogantly claim it to be "truth" and that other people that has not travelled or seen what I have can possible understand, but do I truly have the right to do that? On what authority am I right?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Who do you think the largest contributor of UN funds is? HINT: It isn't Canada.

http://static.globalissues.org/i/aid/2009/net-oda-2008.png

The above Graphs show that all though the U.S. gives a lot of Aid in total dollars. When it comes to percentage of Income we lag behind the rest of the developed world.

 

[Gabethewiking]

http://static.globalissues.org/i/aid/2009/net-oda-2008.png

The above Graphs show that all though the U.S. gives a lot of Aid in total dollars. When it comes to percentage of Income we lag behind the rest of the developed world.

I love how Germany with around 80 million people are half of our budget when we sit with 300 million people. It seems he (enchanted) does not include the fact that we have a large population and counting percentage of capita we give the LEAST.

Irony at its best. See that does evil Scandinavians are the highest aid givers in the world whiles we are the lowest.. Surprise!!! No wait, I KNEW THAT!!!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Everybody takes a government handout in one form or another.

For instance, gasoline taxes aren't enough to fully fund roads. If you drive, or even if you buy products that are shipped by truck, you've indirectly received the benefit of a government "handout".

Of course your right! That you for making this importent point... I have spent most of my life working for non-profits who received some of their funding from Government agencies. So I more then most understand this principle. The point I was trying to express is that I have never been on welfare or food stamps.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Everybody takes a government handout in one form or another.

For instance, gasoline taxes aren't enough to fully fund roads. If you drive, or even if you buy products that are shipped by truck, you've indirectly received the benefit of a government "handout".

That is wrong. I currently drive a truck and I will tell you how it works. They tax the heck out of trucks. We need permits to travel highways within many states. We are forced to be a part of IFTA which means if we buy our fuel in a state where it is taxed less that we pay the tax to the state they feel we should have bought it in anyway. Each truck on the road pays about $40,000.00 worth of road taxes per year through various programs. The cost is passed on to you, the consumer, in the form of increased prices on the finished product in your local store.

But, now...some of you have seriously helped derail this thread away from the original topic.

The point of this thread is us sending money to help another country when we don't have the money to begin with. You can nitpick all the programs and charities you want. You can praise the poor people of Haiti all you want. The fact remains that we do not have the money we are sending. We are just printing more money which devalues every cent in the pocket of every American. Can we please get back on track here?

 

[Gabethewiking]

The point of this thread is us sending money to help another country when we don't have the money to begin with. You can nitpick all the programs and charities you want. You can praise the poor people of Haiti all you want. The fact remains that we do not have the money we are sending. We are just printing more money which devalues every cent in the pocket of every American. Can we please get back on track here?

This goes against your original stance. You said that United States of America is the greatest on the planet, did you not?

So this means we can give and help others as THE REST OF THE WORLD do the same? Backwards nations like Norway, Sweden, Denmark give the most in AID, surely WE who are WEALTHY and SUPER and "THE BEST(TM)" should be able to do better then does guys....

Or are you now saying that We are NOT the best? Please explain.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

This goes against your original stance. You said that United States of America is the greatest on the planet, did you not?

So this means we can give and help others as THE REST OF THE WORLD do the same? Backwards nations like Norway, Sweden, Denmark give the most in AID, surely WE who are WEALTHY and SUPER and "THE BEST(TM)" should be able to do better then does guys....

Or are you now saying that We are NOT the best? Please explain.

We can't give when there is nothing to give. If your wallet is empty you cannot throw a twenty in the piano man's jar. The United States has an empty wallet and the credit cards are maxed.

 

[Gabethewiking]

We can't give when there is nothing to give. If your wallet is empty you cannot throw a twenty in the piano man's jar. The United States has an empty wallet and the credit cards are maxed.

So you are saying we are one of the poorest nations in the world then?

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Right now we are bankrupt and we need to be on a dept repayment plan.

Here is what happens when you print money whenever you run out:
Zimbabwe currently has an inflation rate of 100,000%. A loaf of bread costs Z$10,000,000.00 and a sausage sandwich will run you Z$30,000,000.00. A 30 pound bag of potatoes cost Z$90,000,000.00 in March 2008, but is up to Z$160,000,000.00 as of the time the article was written because they WON'T STOP PRINTING MONEY! Zimbabwe has also released $100,000,000,000.00 banknotes for general circulation so people will not have to carry sacks of currency to go grocery shopping anymore. This same thing happened in Germany when they printed fiat currency to pay for their war debt after WWII. There, a loaf of bread cost a whole wheelbarrow full of currency. People, they say that you are wise if you learn from your own mistakes. You can be brilliant if you allow yourself to learn from the mistakes of others. Unfortunately, when Washington pees into the wind it not only blows back on their own legs but it is landing on all of our legs as well.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Right now we are bankrupt and we need to be on a dept repayment plan.

Here is what happens when you print money whenever you run out:
Zimbabwe currently has an inflation rate of 100,000%. A loaf of bread costs Z$10,000,000.00 and a sausage sandwich will run you Z$30,000,000.00. A 30 pound bag of potatoes cost Z$90,000,000.00 in March 2008, but is up to Z$160,000,000.00 as of the time the article was written because they WON'T STOP PRINTING MONEY! Zimbabwe has also released $100,000,000,000.00 banknotes for general circulation so people will not have to carry sacks of currency to go grocery shopping anymore. This same thing happened in Germany when they printed fiat currency to pay for their war debt after WWII. People, they say that you are wise if you learn from your own mistakes. You can be brilliant if you allow yourself to learn from the mistakes of others. Unfortunately, when Washington pees into the wind it not only blows back on their own legs but it is landing on all of our legs as well.

I visited Zimbabwe just last year actually.

Well our currency, which is known as fiat currency when we went away from gold standard is based on economic stability. That is, we use our Nation as the basis for our Currency rather then "hard cash" (metaphor for resources).

That the U.S currency is weak is not because we "print more money", it is because we do not produce anything and our economy is not really based on anything stable like the Europeans, Japanese or Chinese etc. Our Historic wealth is based on World War Two and our opportune to use nations that just had been in a devastating war, we took the chance of the worlds most advanced and powerful nations rebuilding their nations and wanted to suck them dry, the price we pay is what you see, they have rebuilt and as you can see, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Japan and so on are all advanced wealthy nations whiles We are Not because we do not produce high quality cars, advanced cellphone technology, most medical research come from European or Asian companies all heavily cooperating whiles we are "King of the Hill" character trying to be "lone warriors" in a world that demands cooperation.

We could solve this by asking for help by our European friends, They would help us, if we took the courage, and courage it is, to finally Ask for Help we need our allies and even enemies would have no problems helping us and supply a stable future for our economy.

But you wouldn't knowwhat I talk about, because as you said earlier, "We give the most"... Right..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is wrong. I currently drive a truck and I will tell you how it works. They tax the heck out of trucks. We need permits to travel highways within many states. We are forced to be a part of IFTA which means if we buy our fuel in a state where it is taxed less that we pay the tax to the state they feel we should have bought it in anyway. Each truck on the road pays about $40,000.00 worth of road taxes per year through various programs. The cost is passed on to you, the consumer, in the form of increased prices on the finished product in your local store.

You say you pay $40,000 worth of taxes a year. How many miles per year are you doing?

Let's say that highway reconstruction is $3.6 million per mile (estimate for rural freeway reconstruction, given here), which would work out to $0.9 million per lane-mile (assuming two lanes per direction). A tractor trailer generates around 1.2 ESALs (equivalent single axle loads - this is an average assuming that the trailer's empty 1/3 of the time). A well-built, normal freeway might have a useful life of 10 million ESALs between reconstructions.

So... do the math and this means that an average tractor-trailer causes around $0.11 per mile in wear and tear to the roads it travels on, and that's just the cost to fix the damage it causes. It doesn't include the cost to build the road in the first place (the general rule of thumb for that is $1-2 million for linear kilometer of freeway and $5-10 million per interchange).

If you're doing around 300,000 miles per year, I'd say $40,000 is just about your fair share. You're just paying for the cost that driving your truck creates. If you do most of your driving in the city, then at 300,000 miles per year, you'd be getting a discount.

But, now...some of you have seriously helped derail this thread away from the original topic.

The point of this thread is us sending money to help another country when we don't have the money to begin with. You can nitpick all the programs and charities you want. You can praise the poor people of Haiti all you want. The fact remains that we do not have the money we are sending.

I see it as hypocritical for you to argue this, when quite a bit of military spending represents a huge optional (yes, optional) expense that you aren't willing to consider cutting, despite the fact that it contributes more to the debt that just about anything else, and despite the fact you keep going on about how you don't have the money.

If you've got the money for the most expensive armed forces in the world, you've got the money for a bit of emergency aid.

We are just printing more money which devalues every cent in the pocket of every American.

For the second time, that's not how government debt works. They don't just print more money. The government issues debt instruments like bonds, which get bought by purchasers inside and outside the US.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Backed currency will never devalue. That is why we had no inflation from the time we became a nation until 1933 when they took the gold away. You can have all the theories you want about people trusting in our nation. They are only your own theories. The dollar has devalued continuously from the time we went off the gold standard through current day because we just print all we want. Most Americans may be dumb enough to swallow all that junk about our economy somehow backing our money, but the rest of the world does not. Since we trade with other countries, they do not have to accept faith in our economic stability as payment. (By the way, our economy here isn't so stable.) That is why the amount of dollars we need to pay other countries (for those that will still accept our dollars) is equivalent to the number of dollars it costs to buy the amount of gold that the nation we are trading with wants for payment of their goods or services. Oh, and if you do some research, you will see that an ounce of gold will buy the same amount of the same quality of goods and/or services as an ounce of gold bought in 1776. The reason? We can't just print more gold.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Backed currency will never devalue. That is why we had no inflation from the time we became a nation until 1933 when they took the gold away. You can have all the theories you want about people trusting in our nation. They are only your own theories. The dollar has devalued continuously from the time we went off the gold standard through current day because we just print all we want. Most Americans may be dumb enough to swallow all that junk about our economy somehow backing our money, but the rest of the world does not. Since we trade with other countries, they do not have to accept faith in our economic stability as payment. (By the way, our economy here isn't so stable.) That is why the amount of dollars we need to pay other countries (for those that will still accept our dollars) is equivalent to the number of dollars it costs to buy the amount of gold that the nation we are trading with wants for payment of their goods or services. Oh, and if you do some research, you will see that an ounce of gold will buy the same amount of the same quality of goods and/or services as an ounce of gold bought in 1776. The reason? We can't just print more gold.

enchanted, I think you do not realize why we changed from gold standard to fiat currency. Do you understand the system?