Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[Shadow Wolf]

This many vaccines injected all at once means a lot of aluminum all at once, along with the collective mix of other toxins in that number of vaccines.

That article did not mention aluminum.

I don't think it is as ambiguous or implying as many unknowns as you are making it out to.

Yes, it is. I read it. She is the first patient described with such a condition, and I even directly quoted the "it is uncertain" part.

So because anything in large amounts can be dangerous that makes it okay to inject known toxins into the body?

The key is in the amount. Alcohol is known as a toxin, but in moderation it actually has health benefits. Sun exposure is potentially lethal. Even rattle snake venom has been medically experimented with. Small amounts of nicotine are known for having some benefits. We all need iron, but too much will make you ill and can be destructive. Dextromethorphane, a common cough-syrup ingredient, helps suppress a cough, but it too is destructive and deadly at high amounts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

How do you know that ?.

Um, because you keep saying vaccines cause autism. And also you are not autistic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Here are a few:

86 Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link

Published by Ginger Taylor

Media reports have claimed that there is no scientific evidence supporting the link between vaccines and autism. Here we provide...
*The list has been updated and now contains 99 citations.


Along with the above there is evidence that aluminum which accumulates in the brain is connected with Alzheimer's. Autism and Alzheimer's have many similarities and both neurological diseases also have shockingly similar signs to those of aluminum toxicity. Aluminum is an adjuvant in vaccines which may even be more dangerous than the preservative Thimerosal mercury, which has been reduced in some childhood vaccines, but no reduction has taken place in the Flu, Men C, A, and Tetanus. Mercury and aluminum are known neurotoxins. Both autism and Alzheimer's have become epidemic in this country while at the same time the number of mandated childhood vaccines/boosters is about 50 by school age and the flu shots are pushed on seniors every year.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141013090451.htm

What do Alzheimer's and Autism Spectrum Disorder have in common???

 

[InChrist]

Given that there are a lot of influenza vaccines which don't contain thiomersal, and it has been recommended to have been removed from childhood vaccines for over a decade, do you have any evidence to show that those that do contain mercury are used as vaccines for infants?

Thimerosal has been removed from some most childhood vaccines, yet they may still contain trace amounts. My question is why was such a toxic substance included in the first place and what took so long to remove it?? Also, these Thmerosal vaccines which were already manufactured were not destroyed, but still used in vaccination programs for children, many in third world countries. There are some influenza vaccines available which don't contain Thimerosal, but many do. So it is very likely that unless a parent specifically asks for one which is mercury free, there is no guarantee that their child or unborn infant gets a Thimerosal free injection. This does not even address the aluminum which children have injected into their bodies through multiple vaccinations, which I think may be as bad or worse than mercury.

*Today, the only childhood vaccines used routinely in the United States that contain thimerosal (mercury) are flu vaccines in multi-dose vials. These vials have very tiny amounts of thimerosal as a preservative.
CDC - Vaccine Ingredients - Making the Vaccine Decision - Parents - Vaccines

But before I get distracted, how many of those articles referenced would I need to debunk before you see the list for what it is, i.e. something to scare with not something used to educate? Ten? Twenty? Tell you what, why don't you actually read all those 99 citations, pick the most relevant ten and I'll tell you why they don't mean what Ginger Taylor claims they mean. But.. if I succeed in explaining why the articles you choose are not "research papers supporting the vaccine autism link", you agree to admit that there is no evidence for vaccines causing autism, and do what a person with integrity would and change your opinion based on evidence.

..and even if they were.. how many graphic examples of children, say, dying from whooping cough because they didn't get a vaccination would you need to counter each case study? Because hundreds or even thousands of times as many children were harmed by disease than have ever been harmed by vaccines. Which is why individual case studies, even if vaccine damage can be shown (remember, nobody here is arguing that vaccines are completely risk-free, just that they are orders of magnitude safer than the diseases they protect against) do not prove your point.

Until you can convince me that it's okay to inject viruses and things like aluminum, mercury, polysorbate 80 or any number of other additives directly into the human body by-passing all the body's outer defense mechanisms, then it doesn't matter how many articles you "debunk'". You will also have to convince me that there is no conflict of interest going on between those who have leadership positions in the CDC and FDA while also holding profit making positions at pharmaceutical companies. As far as your point of so many children harmed from disease were it not for vaccines, I just don't buy the stories you've bought into which I think really are based on fear tactics to push vaccines upon the population.


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[InChrist]

Why was/is something like Thimerosal mercury in vaccines at all?

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[InChrist]

What do Alzheimer's and Autism Spectrum Disorder have in common???

Alzheimer's and autism are both neurological diseases, both affect the brain, and both have been shown to be the result of some form of attack upon the immune system.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Why was/is something like Thimerosal mercury in vaccines at all?

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The answer is in the video. It's a preservative. It was used so multiple doses could be stored in a single vial.

 

[InChrist]

That article did not mention aluminum.

But we were talking about aluminum apart from the article and you said everyone knows aluminum is toxic.

Yes, it is. I read it. She is the first patient described with such a condition, and I even directly quoted the "it is uncertain" part.

Well, the court was not uncertain:
Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award - CBS News


[/QUOTE]The key is in the amount. Alcohol is known as a toxin, but in moderation it actually has health benefits. Sun exposure is potentially lethal. Even rattle snake venom has been medically experimented with. Small amounts of nicotine are known for having some benefits. We all need iron, but too much will make you ill and can be destructive. Dextromethorphane, a common cough-syrup ingredient, helps suppress a cough, but it too is destructive and deadly at high amounts.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but mercury has no known benefit to human health and is known to be toxic.

I find it ironic or even hypocritical that you are so in favor of vaccines because you assume they protect and save lives, yet you post something below like this, elsewhere in another thread.

'Even if 90% did not reproduce, we would still be just fine as that would still leave millions spreading the virus of life. With such a high number, we'd probably be much better off as that would allow for a massive dying off of humans which would substantially increase and improve the quality of the earth, which improves the quality of life for all inhabiting the earth"

 

[philbo]

Thimerosal has been removed from some most childhood vaccines, yet they may still contain trace amounts. My question is why was such a toxic substance included in the first place and what took so long to remove it??

Because it works. Because what harm that it does is at such small levels, it's still not certain that it does any harm at all. But not getting vaccinated does cause harm orders of magnitude higher.

Also, these Thmerosal vaccines which were already manufactured were not destroyed, but still used in vaccination programs for children, many in third world countries.

It's still a question of balancing risk: the risk from mercury in vaccines is thousands of times lower than the risks of not getting vaccinated, and that's even more true in places where vaccination rates are lower.

*Today, the only childhood vaccines used routinely in the United States that contain thimerosal (mercury) are flu vaccines in multi-dose vials. These vials have very tiny amounts of thimerosal as a preservative.
CDC - Vaccine Ingredients - Making the Vaccine Decision - Parents - Vaccines

Very surprised to find there are four states over there that mandate flu vaccines for children: the overwhelming majority of places in the world (and the US) don't include influenza as a standard, and only vaccinate against prevalent strains when an outbreak occurs. Again, it's a question of relative risk. But as you point out, if a parent is worried about mercury, even in the quantities used as a preservative, they can request a vaccine without.

Until you can convince me that it's okay to inject viruses and things like aluminum, mercury, polysorbate 80 or any number of other additives directly into the human body by-passing all the body's outer defense mechanisms, then it doesn't matter how many articles you "debunk'".

Look, that was what you chose to prove vaccines harmful. If none of them hold up, you're left without any supporting evidence for your contention that vaccines cause harm, and continuing to hold that position with your own claims debunked and unable to answer the ones which show vaccine safety is intellectual dishonesty of the highest degree. Basically, you're saying that you don't know what are in those articles, because you've not actually looked at them but because somebody who makes money from being a vaccine scaremonger has compiled this list, you're going to spread the fear around without even understanding why you're doing it, just because it supports your precious delusion. What about Ginger Taylor's conflict of interest, then?

As far as your point of so many children harmed from disease were it not for vaccines, I just don't buy the stories you've bought into which I think really are based on fear tactics to push vaccines upon the population.

WHAT KIND OF CARP ARE YOU EGESTING HERE? Are you really saying that people didn't get polio? Get measles? And die from both of those diseases in the millions? Are you trying to pretend that the world's epidemiologists are making it up to scare people into getting vaccinated?

I am truly gobsmacked.

 

[InChrist]

The answer is in the video. It's a preservative. It was used so multiple doses could be stored in a single vial.

So there are no such things as preservatives which are not known toxins?

 

[philbo]

So there are no such things as preservatives which are not known toxins?

Preservatives have to be toxic to microbes, otherwise they don't work.

BTW, how do you explain history books which describe influenza epidemics killing tens of millions, measles killing thousands, hundreds of thousands killed and left disfigured by polio before anyone had come up with the idea of vaccination?

 

[SkepticThinker]

But we were talking about aluminum apart from the article and you said everyone knows aluminum is toxic.



Well, the court was not uncertain:
Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award - CBS News


The key is in the amount. Alcohol is known as a toxin, but in moderation it actually has health benefits. Sun exposure is potentially lethal. Even rattle snake venom has been medically experimented with. Small amounts of nicotine are known for having some benefits. We all need iron, but too much will make you ill and can be destructive. Dextromethorphane, a common cough-syrup ingredient, helps suppress a cough, but it too is destructive and deadly at high amounts.

Yes, but mercury has no known benefit to human health and is known to be toxic.

I find it ironic or even hypocritical that you are so in favor of vaccines because you assume they protect and save lives, yet you post something below like this, elsewhere in another thread.

'Even if 90% did not reproduce, we would still be just fine as that would still leave millions spreading the virus of life. With such a high number, we'd probably be much better off as that would allow for a massive dying off of humans which would substantially increase and improve the quality of the earth, which improves the quality of life for all inhabiting the earth"

It's not a mere assumption. It's a demonstrable claim. As discussed over and over in this thread.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, the court was not uncertain:
Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award - CBS News

Courts do not decide what is science. In your post, the authors themselves stated there are many uncertainties involved in the case studies. The courts should not have ruled until these uncertainties were figured out.

I find it ironic or even hypocritical that you are so in favor of vaccines because you assume they protect and save lives, yet you post something below like this, elsewhere in another thread.

Wow....just...wow. You completed misread that and took it way out of context.

 

[psychoslice]

Um, because you keep saying vaccines cause autism. And also you are not autistic.

Yes I am schizo, but that doesn't mean I know everything about being schizo, or how we are born that way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes I am schizo, but that doesn't mean I know everything about being schizo, or how we are born that way.

Schizophrenia is typically caused by a number of things, including a genetic predisposition and certain environmental triggers, which in the typical case causes the onset of the condition approximately around late teens to mid 20s.

 

[psychoslice]

Schizophrenia is typically caused by a number of things, including a genetic predisposition and certain environmental triggers, which in the typical case causes the onset of the condition approximately around late teens to mid 20s.

Mmmm, interesting, I myself wasn't diagnosed until my late thirties, but I was always a bit odd most of my life, I feel that smoking weed may have helped it to fully develop ?.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Mmmm, interesting, I myself wasn't diagnosed until my late thirties, but I was always a bit odd most of my life, I feel that smoking weed may have helped it to fully develop ?.

I have read many studies that marijuana is not good for schizophrenia (although specific cannabonoids may have some benefits rather than the full amount provided by raw pot), but I haven't read anything on it inducing schizophrenia. It may be possible, given the genetic predispositions of schizophrenia, but it's very likely there haven't been many studies looking into it given there hasn't been a lot of research looking into pot in general. Afterall, we're so uptight about in America we don't even grow it for raw hemp, which has a ton on industrial and commercial applications and is utterly unusable recreationally.

 

[psychoslice]

Um, because you keep saying vaccines cause autism. And also you are not autistic.

That's silly, you don't have to have a heart problem or any other to understand all about it, someone can know all about the heart and never had a heart problem.

 

[InChrist]

Preservatives have to be toxic to microbes, otherwise they don't work.

BTW, how do you explain history books which describe influenza epidemics killing tens of millions, measles killing thousands, hundreds of thousands killed and left disfigured by polio before anyone had come up with the idea of vaccination?

I am not suggesting that there were not disease epidemics throughout history, but I think if you do the research it is apparent that these diseases which you have listed and the mortality rates associated with them were in decline BEFORE vaccines were introduced. Yet, many of these same diseases have been and are now spread by the vaccines themselves.

 

[InChrist]

Wow....just...wow. You completed misread that and took it way out of context.

Whether in or out of context you said human life is a virus..."spreading the virus of life" and..."we'd probably be much better off as that would allow for a massive dying off of humans which would substantially increase and improve the quality of the earth".

If you feel this way then why are you in favor of vaccines which you believe save many lives? Wouldn't be better from your perspective if there were massive epidemics so many humans would die off and substantially increase and improve the quality of the earth?