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Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Vaccinating a child carries the inherent risk of a possibly fatal allergic reaction.
There is a risk of fatal allergic reactions in many medications. From what I have gathered, the risk is .0000001%, meaning you're putting someone at far greater risk just by taking them via automobile transport to the doctor than you are with getting them vaccinated.
There is also a poorly defined link between some vaccines in babies and the development of autism symptoms. It's a vague link, but it's there.
There is no such link, and we have reached a point where we can diagnose autism before a child is even old enough to be vaccinated, and there is also the issue that the guy who established this "link" did not carry out a study before making his claim and he lost his license to practice due to the negligence of his statement and lack of research.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
Umm Cholera is spread due to poor environmental factors actually. Unsanitary water conditions, lack of proper hygiene and unsafe food practices. It's endemic in many countries and will kill you if not treated. You probably don't live in squalid conditions in some war torn poor country drinking awful dirty water every day, hence the lack of cholera near you. And me for that matter. Go us! Spoilt brat first world callous ingrates. Yay I guess.

Pfft getting surgery comes with an inherent risk of freaking death. You against all types of surgery too?

No autism link has been found. Not even correlation. The only "study" that says that is so debunked even uttering it will get you mocked or cause automatic facepalms in certain circles.

Flu Vaccine (which I don't get either tbh) takes like 2 weeks to even work so I don't know how it's supposed to cause flu like symptoms the next day. But even those symptoms are just a sign that your immune system has figured out that there's a virus (dead or neutered depending on the vaccine) in your body. So no creating symptoms does not defeat the purpose. That's just your body working in tandem with the vaccine. Like geez anyone remotely acquainted with biology will tell you that.

The water is unsanitary due to overpopulation. Also, the fact that many of those affected by the disease know absolutely nothing about sanitation, which is partially rooted in poor education. I understand that the flu vaccine triggers an immune response that causes flu like symptoms, but the flu itself isn't much worse. Last time I had the flu, I actually did develop pneumonia, though.

Another reason for school age kids including myself not to get the vaccine is that the flu is a great excuse to get a few days off of school.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The water is unsanitary due to overpopulation. Also, the fact that many of those affected by the disease know absolutely nothing about sanitation, which is partially rooted in poor education. I understand that the flu vaccine triggers an immune response that causes flu like symptoms, but the flu itself isn't much worse. Last time I had the flu, I actually did develop pneumonia, though.

Another reason for school age kids including myself not to get the vaccine is that the flu is a great excuse to get a few days off of school.

The water is unsanitary because most of the world's water IS unsanitary! Like Jesus, do you honesty think water in the world is magically clean and safe for human consumption provided that there's not a high level of humans around? Are you unaware of just how much **** goes into actually making water drinkable in developed and developing nations alike? It's more prominent in developed nations due to a stable country being well........stable enough to help provide it's citizens safe water and food. Wars, shoddy economy and/or a government that is either corrupt to the bone or prone to being torn down every few days doesn't usually have time, money or sometimes even cares enough to ensure it's citizens are semi healthy.

In developed nations the government, though can be corrupt, is usually more at the mercy of public opinion. It is therefore usually a good enough incentive to ensure it's citizens are semi healthy, aren't dying in droves and live long lives so they can vote for them for years.
So the government will provide it's citizens (a good majority of them anyway) with resources through government run programs/strategies designed to provide safe products for public consumption. Dams, infrastructure, sewers, treatment facilities and other facilities pretty much ensure that our water is drinkable and without all that nature-y goodness that will probably kill you.

Also you do know that there are literally deadly strains of the flu, right? What you want to freaking die?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It seems to me that much of the resistance to vaccination comes from misplaced magical thinking, or maybe a form of fear of questioning and change.

The thinking seems to be roughly this:

"We have made it this far without the vaccine. Am I willing to trust that those people know what they are doing and care about the consequences?"

That may be appealling at first glance - until one realizes that we do not really enjoy such a confortable bubble of self-reliance. We trust others for the quality of our water, food and medicine all the time already, and often enough we expect others to produce solutions for plenty of risks and problems that we have no particular reason to expect to be protected from.

We tend to think little of using lots of medicinal drugs that have significant risks and consequences, to the point of demanding the legality of recreational drugs as some sort of inherent right. Yet vaccination is perceived as too invasive by some. Perhaps because it is slightly more difficult to ignore how much we rely on other people's expertise and judgement when they are applying shots on our body.
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
The water is unsanitary because most of the world's water IS unsanitary! Like Jesus, do you honesty think water in the world is magically clean and safe for human consumption provided that there's not a high level of humans around? Are you unaware of just how much **** goes into actually making water drinkable in developed and developing nations alike? It's more prominent in developed nations due to a stable country being well........stable enough to help provide it's citizens safe water and food. Wars, shoddy economy and/or a government that is either corrupt to the bone or prone to being torn down every few days doesn't usually have time, money or sometimes even cares enough to ensure it's citizens are semi healthy.

In developed nations the government, though can be corrupt, is usually more at the mercy of public opinion. It is therefore usually a good enough incentive to ensure it's citizens are semi healthy, aren't dying in droves and live long lives so they can vote for them for years.
So the government will provide it's citizens (a good majority of them anyway) with resources through government run programs/strategies designed to provide safe products for public consumption. Dams, infrastructure, sewers, treatment facilities and other facilities pretty much ensure that our water is drinkable and without all that nature-y goodness that will probably kill you.

Also you do know that there are literally deadly strains of the flu, right? What you want to freaking die?

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that well water becomes potable upon boiling. They ought to stop ****ting in their drinking water.

Ground water, spring water, and lake/river water are relatively clean, provided that they don't contain a lot of salt. It's the humans that **** it up by dumping the sewage in the same water that they drink from.

It's really sad that humans have damaged our world this much...
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that well water becomes potable upon boiling. They ought to stop ****ting in their drinking water.

Ground water, spring water, and lake/river water are relatively clean, provided that they don't contain a lot of salt. It's the humans that **** it up by dumping the sewage in the same water that they drink from.

It's really sad that humans have damaged our world this much...

No water is completely safe until it has been properly treated. Are you this ignorant of nature? Like really?
You forget other possible ways of contamination like having a freaking rainstorm and storm run off. Not to mention naturally occurring chemicals that can kill you in high enough doses.

Lakes, streams and other seemingly "safe" water supplies still contain germs and bacteria. Also you do realise that other animals need water sources, right? It's often other animals contaminating shared water sources not just the "big bad human" or whatever goddamned hippie nonsense.
In developed nations we have what's called protected water supplies This means that there are certain sources of water continuously monitored and checked by agencies within the government (usually scientists) this water is then treated through several ways before being sent out for human consumption. Like taps or bottled water.
In developing nations sometimes a pump that supplied a poor village is broken through a shoddy development deal or simply a natural disaster or perhaps just rusts due to lack of follow up support given the the region. When this occurs the remote villagers are forced to use water from a shared water hole in their region and even boiling it might not always be an option. Maybe their houses were torched by a roving band of rebel soldiers and they're stuck in the rain. Maybe they did boil the water but not long enough because no one bothered to teach them properly!
While you lament the devastation wrought by the evil humans (which does suck granted) try sparing a thought for your fellow man every once in a while. Like Shesh, Selfish much?
 
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VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
No water is completely safe until it has been properly treated. Are you this ignorant of nature? Like really?
You forget other possible ways of contamination like having a freaking rainstorm and storm run off. Not to mention naturally occurring chemicals that can kill you in high enough doses.

Lakes, streams and other seemingly "safe" water supplies still contain germs and bacteria. Also you do realise that other animals need water sources, right? It's often other animals contaminating shared water sources not just the "big bad human" or whatever goddamned hippie nonsense.
In developed nations we have what's called protected water supplies This means that there are certain sources of water continuously monitored and checked by agencies within the government (usually scientists) this water is then treated through several ways before being sent out for human consumption. Like taps or bottled water.
In developing nations sometimes a pump that supplied a poor village is broken through a shoddy development deal or simply a natural disaster or perhaps just rusts due to lack of follow up support given the the region. When this occurs the remote villagers are forced to use water from a shared water hole in their region and even boiling it might not always be an option. Maybe their houses were torched by a roving band of rebel soldiers and they're stuck in the rain. Maybe they did boil the water but not long enough because no one bothered to teach them properly!
While you lament the devastation wrought by the evil humans (which does suck granted) try sparing a thought for your fellow man every once in a while. Like Shesh, Selfish much?

Or course there is some naturally dirty water. Animals **** in it, things rot in it etc. That's why people typically use ground water.

Let's end this debate, were not supposed to debate in here anyways. On the other hand, this should really be in religious debates.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
1248 posts and Iron Wizard suggests ending this thread?
Good luck with that.
Beat to death the topic might be but it appears members want to keep it going.
I'm not the least interested in the topic but I posted here didn't I?:facepalm:
 

VioletVortex

Well-Known Member
1248 posts and Iron Wizard suggests ending this thread?
Good luck with that.
Beat to death the topic might be but it appears members want to keep it going.
I'm not the least interested in the topic but I posted here didn't I?:facepalm:

Actually, I was just suggesting that we end the debate, because this is not the section for debates. However, this thread is a perfect example of "beating a dead horse".
 

ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
There are various issues concerning this complicated subject and so I feel it would be best for me to not really say anything about the subject but to simply share a few links which express the view of the Catholic Church on the subject:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ved_from_aborted_fetuses_puts_onus_on_pharma/

http://www.askacatholic.com/_WebPostings/Answers/2014_01JAN/2014JanShouldWeBuyFromThem.cfm

https://cogforlife.org/catholicguide.pdf

http://catholicexchange.com/vaccination-material-cooperation-in-abortion-and-autism

http://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/frequently-asked-questions/use-vaccines/

https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/S...holic-experts-weigh-in-on-vaccine-debate.aspx

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...s-Conscience-Exemption-updated-April-2015.pdf

The last link is from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and so is the most authoritative of all the links.

Here is one more link that I forgot to include and it is the most authoritative. It is from the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6539
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
There are various issues concerning this complicated subject and so I feel it would be best for me to not really say anything about the subject but to simply share a few links which express the view of the Catholic Church on the subject:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ved_from_aborted_fetuses_puts_onus_on_pharma/

http://www.askacatholic.com/_WebPostings/Answers/2014_01JAN/2014JanShouldWeBuyFromThem.cfm

https://cogforlife.org/catholicguide.pdf

http://catholicexchange.com/vaccination-material-cooperation-in-abortion-and-autism

http://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/frequently-asked-questions/use-vaccines/

https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/S...holic-experts-weigh-in-on-vaccine-debate.aspx

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...s-Conscience-Exemption-updated-April-2015.pdf

The last link is from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and so is the most authoritative of all the links.

Here is one more link that I forgot to include and it is the most authoritative. It is from the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6539

I'm sorry but I read the forth link and came away convinced the author flunked high school biology class. I mean I thought I was uninformed but shesh!
Measles, chicken pox and mumps "childhood diseases that some consider strengthen the immune system?!" Considered by who? Doctor Nick from the Simpsons?
What utter nonsense! Chicken pox is a latent virus. That means once you get it it lies dormant in your body for the rest of your life. It can flare up in later life causing shingles. That's absolutely not some childhood disease it's painful as hell and can leave one bedridden for weeks. Oh and if a pregnant woman in the later stages has chicken pox it's considered a danger to the fetus. Childhood disease my foot!
And such so called "rites of passage" can KILL cancer patients undergoing chemo because of compromised immune systems. So much for "sanctity of life." More like **** those who can't vaccinate for medical reasons we are parents and get to decide that our ill informed decision outweighs giving basic protection to the community. Ugh!
It's one thing to be concerned about aborted fetus cells in vaccines even though none has been used since like the 1960s but whatever.
I even understand someone fearing a bad reaction. But that website just screams "I don't understand basic concepts in science. Therefore it's evil."
No autism before vaccines? No, we couldn't diagnose autism before vaccines because we literally did not know what it was called. Low functioning autistic people were just considered weak in the head or damaged. High functioning autistic people were seen as eccentric geniuses or oddballs. No one knew what it was back in the so called autism free days of old. We have expanded our knowledge since then. Obviously there will be more cases of autism when you know what to freaking call it and of course the ever expanding nuances in the diagnosis of the spectrum!
And what type of autism is caused by vaccines specifically? It's like saying vaccines cause an STD. Autism is not some homogenous disease. It's a freaking spectrum.
 
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ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but I read the forth link and came away convinced the author flunked high school biology class. I mean I thought I was uninformed but shesh!
Measles, chicken pox and mumps "childhood diseases that some consider strengthen the immune system?!" Considered by who? Doctor Nick from the Simpsons?
What utter nonsense! Chicken pox is a latent virus. That means once you get it it lies dormant in your body for the rest of your life. It can flare up in later life causing shingles. That's absolutely not some childhood disease it's painful as hell and can leave one bedridden for weeks. Oh and if a pregnant woman in the later stages has chicken pox it's considered a danger to the fetus. Childhood disease my foot!
And such so called "rites of passage" can KILL cancer patients undergoing chemo because of compromised immune systems. So much for "sanctity of life." More like **** those who can't vaccinate for medical reasons we are parents and get to decide that our ill informed decision outweighs giving basic protection to the community. Ugh!
It's one thing to be concerned about aborted fetus cells in vaccines even though none has been used since like the 1960s but whatever.
I even understand someone fearing a bad reaction. But that website just screams "I don't understand basic concepts in science. Therefore it's evil."
No autism before vaccines? No, we couldn't diagnose autism before vaccines because we literally did not know what it was called. Low functioning autistic people were just considered weak in the head or damaged. High functioning autistic people were seen as eccentric geniuses or oddballs. No one knew what it was back in the so called autism free days of old. We have expanded our knowledge since then. Obviously there will be more cases of autism when you know what to freaking call it and of course the ever expanding nuances in the diagnosis of the spectrum!
And what type of autism is caused by vaccines specifically? It's like saying vaccines cause an STD. Autism is not some homogenous disease. It's a freaking spectrum.

Just because the article says that some claim that does not mean that the article itself is making that claim. Also, I do not believe that vaccines cause autism. That has been thoroughly debunked.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Just because the article says that some claim that does not mean that the article itself is making that claim. Also, I do not believe that vaccines cause autism. That has been thoroughly debunked.
I think you just illustrated why it's a bad idea to copy-paste a link instead of expressing your own thoughts on the matter.

Personally, I find it annoying when someone posts a link instead of an argument, I take the time to read it and respond, and the other person says "oh, no - I don't agree with that part of the article!"

I've reached the point now where I generally dismiss people who post links instead of expressing their own ideas as not approaching the discussion in good faith.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
There are various issues concerning this complicated subject and so I feel it would be best for me to not really say anything about the subject but to simply share a few links which express the view of the Catholic Church on the subject:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ved_from_aborted_fetuses_puts_onus_on_pharma/

http://www.askacatholic.com/_WebPostings/Answers/2014_01JAN/2014JanShouldWeBuyFromThem.cfm

https://cogforlife.org/catholicguide.pdf

http://catholicexchange.com/vaccination-material-cooperation-in-abortion-and-autism

http://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/frequently-asked-questions/use-vaccines/

https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/S...holic-experts-weigh-in-on-vaccine-debate.aspx

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...s-Conscience-Exemption-updated-April-2015.pdf

The last link is from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and so is the most authoritative of all the links.

Here is one more link that I forgot to include and it is the most authoritative. It is from the Vatican's Pontifical Academy for Life.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6539
It sounds like the Catholic Church is woefully ill-informed on this subject. How disappointing. :(
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I'm sorry but I read the forth link and came away convinced the author flunked high school biology class. I mean I thought I was uninformed but shesh!
Measles, chicken pox and mumps "childhood diseases that some consider strengthen the immune system?!" Considered by who? Doctor Nick from the Simpsons?
What utter nonsense! Chicken pox is a latent virus. That means once you get it it lies dormant in your body for the rest of your life. It can flare up in later life causing shingles. That's absolutely not some childhood disease it's painful as hell and can leave one bedridden for weeks. Oh and if a pregnant woman in the later stages has chicken pox it's considered a danger to the fetus. Childhood disease my foot!
And such so called "rites of passage" can KILL cancer patients undergoing chemo because of compromised immune systems. So much for "sanctity of life." More like **** those who can't vaccinate for medical reasons we are parents and get to decide that our ill informed decision outweighs giving basic protection to the community. Ugh!
It's one thing to be concerned about aborted fetus cells in vaccines even though none has been used since like the 1960s but whatever.
I even understand someone fearing a bad reaction. But that website just screams "I don't understand basic concepts in science. Therefore it's evil."
No autism before vaccines? No, we couldn't diagnose autism before vaccines because we literally did not know what it was called. Low functioning autistic people were just considered weak in the head or damaged. High functioning autistic people were seen as eccentric geniuses or oddballs. No one knew what it was back in the so called autism free days of old. We have expanded our knowledge since then. Obviously there will be more cases of autism when you know what to freaking call it and of course the ever expanding nuances in the diagnosis of the spectrum!
And what type of autism is caused by vaccines specifically? It's like saying vaccines cause an STD. Autism is not some homogenous disease. It's a freaking spectrum.
Not to mention the fact that even after Thiomerosal was removed from vaccines in the 1990s, autism rates continued to increase for years afterward. There is no connection save for one tainted article, debunked and disgraced many years ago.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Just because the article says that some claim that does not mean that the article itself is making that claim. Also, I do not believe that vaccines cause autism. That has been thoroughly debunked.
The article was written by an author who is clearly using a specific narrative. The article in question is written to persuade people and thus makes claims. That's how it is written. I didn't write the article. The person who did write it is responsible for making the claims presented in it. That's how articles work.
If you do not agree with said article then I strongly suggest good sir that you pay more attention to links you post. By posting a link in a debate like this is to endorse it. If you do not agree with it or even half of it either make it known to other people or don't post it at all. You are accountable for what you post.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Not to mention the fact that even after Thiomerosal was removed from vaccines in the 1990s, autism rates continued to increase for years afterward. There is no connection save for one tainted article, debunked and disgraced many years ago.
Exactly. "People are right to fear the amount of thermerosal in vaccines." Pfft the author probably doesn't even know what thermerosal is.
 

ZooGirl02

Well-Known Member
The article was written by an author who is clearly using a specific narrative. The article in question is written to persuade people and thus makes claims. That's how it is written. I didn't write the article. The person who did write it is responsible for making the claims presented in it. That's how articles work.
If you do not agree with said article then I strongly suggest good sir that you pay more attention to links you post. By posting a link in a debate like this is to endorse it. If you do not agree with it or even half of it either make it known to other people or don't post it at all. You are accountable for what you post.

Well, I do apologize for posting an inaccurate article. I didn't read it before I posted it.
 
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