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Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
This is what you keep calling sound, replicated , and repeated science in the biotech industry:

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._crisis_than_the_one_plaguing_psychology.html
Except that is dealing with cancer research, not vaccines, which have indeed been very thoroughly investigated and replicated. They don't cause autism.
A really good read that makes perfect sense.

It makes no sense, because Bill Gates listed several things, but the article is freaking out over vaccines, and it also makes no sense to say vaccines help no from a scientific perspective, when it reality the places that have vaccines for things like polio and smallpox have very few cases to none at all of things like polio and smallpox. My grandparents grew up with polio, my parents hardly knew it, and I didn't know it at all. I'd say that's quiet a bit of help. It's been eliminated from many countries. How is that "not helping anyone?"
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
Except that is dealing with cancer research, not vaccines, which have indeed been very thoroughly investigated and replicated. They don't cause autism.

It makes no sense, because Bill Gates listed several things, but the article is freaking out over vaccines, and it also makes no sense to say vaccines help no from a scientific perspective, when it reality the places that have vaccines for things like polio and smallpox have very few cases to none at all of things like polio and smallpox. My grandparents grew up with polio, my parents hardly knew it, and I didn't know it at all. I'd say that's quiet a bit of help. It's been eliminated from many countries. How is that "not helping anyone?"

The parts about the guillable. Very true. It is saddening that not many have a mind for their own, do not even trust in their own better judgement, that many have a dire need to fit in with the herd, that many are so easily tricked and conned.
Zero replication outside of their private closed facilities. Not science. I guarantee it's not even possible to replicate as its all tampered. Not even talking about "autism." They are not indeed replicated anywhere. Any sound and solid science would gladly be replicated anywhere by the worldwide community, for the love of science and truth, especially when it comes to the well-being of children. That is true science.
The guillable and naive keep believing it is from vaccines. "Vaccines did it." The oral polio vaccine has already spread more dangerous mutated strands of polio turning up in countries, hiding in stomachs for many years, and causing paralysis. Anyone can research the damage being done in India and many other countries from these vaccines. Also, from the Gates' Foundation. The guillable and naive believe anything anyone tells them about history, vaccines.
The evil smart know that in order for mankind to survive in this world going forward, much of the population needs eradicated. So, they don't lie when they say they are saving the world and helping people, its just in the opposite way of how the herd mentality perceives it and can't see it. The herd already arent adequate to survive as they do and believe everything they're told with no mind for their own, no care for their own health, then again for some, surviving in this world is a curse of suffering.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Sounds science is wonderful, pseudoscience not so.

To be honest bud, your fear and guilt doctrine and condescending only works on the herd.
Then stop using pseudoscience.

I mean, seriously, between the two of us, I'm the one presenting the scientific evidence.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Again, you're just as dangerous and irresponsible.

Herd immunity is a lie, read some science and stop spreading misinformation.
You are spreading false information. Herd immunity is DEMONSTRABLY TRUE. I have read the science, extensively. I have done my homework. I showed a small fraction of the science that demonstrates it to YOU. If you cared enough, you could find a lot more evidence on your own. You are pushing falsehoods and lies and it's really getting tired.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
What is the point? Stuff assenuates over time. Millions of things are responsible for the decline. To say vaccines did it is the same as saying God did it. One can easily look up or request different vital and mortality statistics from country national statistics and see they were declining steadily from 1900 on before vaccines. Even your links state that.


Because, while cleverly written and omitting tons... one can use their own information against them if they can see through it.


With that logic, why are vaccines used to test on animals if they don't turn out the same on humans? Talk about poor methodology. That would be like testing a vaccine on a rock and saying that it didn't cause such on the rock so humans are safe.


Not a fallacious claim.

What is the point of scientific research? I don't understand your question. How can we know anything without applying proper scientific methodology?


Assenuate is not a word (that I am aware of). Can you tell me what you mean by it?


What do you mean by “use their own information?” What information? Have you carried out your own scientific studies on vaccines?


Apparently, there is much you are not aware of when it comes to scientific methodology and clinical trials. Vaccines (and everything else) are first tested on animals to test for initial safety, pharmacological effects, chemistry, etc . Then, if the results are positive, they move onto human clinical trials (which are done in several phases) to see if the efficacy translates to human subjects and to figure out dosage and expose any safety concerns that may be present. For further reading and details see:


http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparency/Basics/ucm194932.htm

http://hopkinsprojectsave.org/resources/understandingtrials.html


Educate yourself.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
1) newborns are just as easily at risk to catch something from the vaccinated so why is the guilt and fear necessary?

2) so does natural immunity and so many real life people today who caught measles, ate chicken noodle soup, stayed at home for a week and developed lifelong immunity from the real deal.

3) known by whom? The intellectually lazy who are only capable of seeing one extreme side due to herd mentality of indoctrination through fear and guilt? Mental slavery can be anguishing, what are you so afraid of that you have to try to make others feel guilty and proselytize a saving grace of vaccines?

1) Source? Please tell me you're not still talking about shedding.

2) The risks of natural infection outweigh the risks of vaccination (remember our chat about cost-benefit analysis?). Perhaps you are aware that 1 in 1,000 individuals who contract the wild measles will end up with an infection that causes inflammation of the brain which often leads to death. In those who are vaccinated with MMR, that number is reduced to 1 in one million. (And before you go on about it wearing off, only 2 shots are required for lifelong immunity from measles.)


You are also completely ignoring the fact that becoming infected with many of the diseases we vaccinate for can result in permanent injury, lifelong problems and/or death. For example, my mother and my grandfather have both had terrible bouts with shingles, which, as you may know, is caused by the chicken pox virus. Both had chicken pox when they were children. Both of my grandfather’s legs were covered in painful, scaly shingles for 2 months, and my mother almost went deaf because the shingles rash had worked its way into her ear canal. Not contracting the disease in the first place seems safer, wouldn’t you say? It is safer to get vaccinated than to contract the actual disease in a great many cases.


Never mind the fact that all of this ignores the existence of people with compromised immune systems and diseases that excludes them from having the chance to be vaccinated. These are children like my niece, people with cancers, people with HIV/AIDS, etc. What do you suggest for these people?


3) Actually it’s known by those who are NOT intellectually lazy and who have actually taken the time to research that data and those who understand how science works. Turns out, the man who cherry picked said data was the intellectually lazy one. This is why I urge you to read scientific publications. Because if you did, you’d already be aware of this. You need to check and verify your sources, rather than just taking someone’s word for it. Primary sources are preferential.
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
1) Source? Please tell me you're not still talking about shedding.

2) The risks of natural infection outweigh the risks of vaccination (remember our chat about cost-benefit analysis?). Perhaps you are aware that 1 in 1,000 individuals who contract the wild measles will end up with an infection that causes inflammation of the brain which often leads to death. In those who are vaccinated with MMR, that number is reduced to 1 in one million. (And before you go on about it wearing off, only 2 shots are required for lifelong immunity from measles.)


You are also completely ignoring the fact that becoming infected with many of the diseases we vaccinate for can result in permanent injury, lifelong problems and/or death. For example, my mother and my grandfather have both had terrible bouts with shingles, which, as you may know, is caused by the chicken pox virus. Both had chicken pox when they were children. Both of my grandfather’s legs were covered in painful, scaly shingles for 2 months, and my mother almost went deaf because the shingles rash had worked its way into her ear canal. Not contracting the disease in the first place seems safer, wouldn’t you say? It is safer to get vaccinated than to contract the actual disease in a great many cases.


Never mind the fact that all of this ignores the existence of people with compromised immune systems and diseases that excludes them from having the chance to be vaccinated. These are children like my niece, people with cancers, people with HIV/AIDS, etc. What do you suggest for these people?


3) Actually it’s known by those who are NOT intellectually lazy and who have actually taken the time to research that data and those who understand how science works. Turns out, the man who cherry picked said data was the intellectually lazy one. This is why I urge you to read scientific publications. Because if you did, you’d already be aware of this. You need to check and verify your sources, rather than just taking someone’s word for it. Primary sources are preferential.

1) Asymptomatic carriers. Shedding has been evidenced and is easily proven and shown. Once again, vaccines do not STOP the spreading of a disease.
2) Lies. Waning immunity occurs, this lifelong immunity is also a myth and wishful thinking.

As you said, life in general is risky. We know hardly anything about neurology and immunology, for all we know cancers, weak immune systems, and aids was caused by vaccinations and passed down genetically. You and I don't know that. Stop being dishonest in saying that you know this because you have done the research and have complete research and are all knowing. You seem to be opposed to anything natural to help strengthen immunity, which is odd.

You believe you know how science works. Once again, sound science is willingly replicated anywhere else in the community for the love of truth and science. This is not sound science. There is zero replication. The method behind this has an immense conflict of interest. Very little is known about the neurology and immunology, what don't you understand about that? I believe you are mistakenly placing vaccinations in the ranks of every other field of science in which many other fields are easily replicated, sound and known. It's one way they con the naive, vulnerable, and guillable.... masquerading something that is not sound science as if it is.

Before pointing the finger my friend, what are you doing? Taking someone's word for it. I really do not "need" to do anything.
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
What is the point of scientific research? I don't understand your question. How can we know anything without applying proper scientific methodology?


Assenuate is not a word (that I am aware of). Can you tell me what you mean by it?


What do you mean by “use their own information?” What information? Have you carried out your own scientific studies on vaccines?


Apparently, there is much you are not aware of when it comes to scientific methodology and clinical trials. Vaccines (and everything else) are first tested on animals to test for initial safety, pharmacological effects, chemistry, etc . Then, if the results are positive, they move onto human clinical trials (which are done in several phases) to see if the efficacy translates to human subjects and to figure out dosage and expose any safety concerns that may be present. For further reading and details see:


http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparency/Basics/ucm194932.htm

http://hopkinsprojectsave.org/resources/understandingtrials.html


Educate yourself.

This is not proper scientific methodology. 1. HUGE conflict of interest. 2. Not replicated. 3. There is virtually little known about neurology and the immune system, short/mid/long term effects.

Forgive me, "attenuate."

No, have you? Neither has the greater scientific community.

Are you that guillable and unable to see the many garbage that has went through that same process you say and has been recalled, removed, altered due to very harmful effects being found down the road? I honestly don't know how you can say the methodology is scientific and sound. Why wasn't it known in the first place through all of these rigorous trials you claim? Why is it exposed to millions of people first before finding out? Are you aware of what conflict of interest is?

Do you know how many studies are done on animals in which they all develop cancers, diseases, die, this and that and are still pushed on humans? And when humans get these diseases it's magical coincidence and can hide behind the virtually limitless unknown of the brain, body, and its immune system?
It's called taking advantage of the unknown and a human system that is highly complex far beyond our understanding.
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
You are spreading false information. Herd immunity is DEMONSTRABLY TRUE. I have read the science, extensively. I have done my homework. I showed a small fraction of the science that demonstrates it to YOU. If you cared enough, you could find a lot more evidence on your own. You are pushing falsehoods and lies and it's really getting tired.

Herd mentality is demonstrably true. Seeking social acceptance and popularity I believe is the number one cause of herd mentality followed by not yet evolving a mental faculty capable and free of being able to think for oneself. You're trying too hard and missing the truth. All one has to do is listen and think rationally to be aware of how it's just not possible. No research is even required. No he said she said is even required. No doing your homework is even required. It's really that simple.
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
For probably the eighth time now ... BOOSTER SHOTS.

Booster shots, lol. Why do you need a booster shot in the first place? How long do boosters last? All you have to do if you wish is clear your mind and say "booster shots" 10 times until you become aware of how silly that sounds.

How many adults get these booster shots? Maybe 15%?
 
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Sapiens

Polymathematician
In the US, more than 200,000 cases of autism per year. Polio: zero. "Just may be now?"
Again, can you imagine for a moment what would happen if evidence were there and shown to the public? It is never safe to assume anything. Once again, you do not know.
"Paranoid conspiracy theorist" are fancy hyped buzzwords in my opinion used to exploit the blind/naive general herd.
There you go with that paranoid conspiracy theory again.
No, you do not know what causes autism ...
Sure I do. Autism is caused by exposure, at a young age, to bad internet posts.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
bang-head-here.jpg~c200
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
There you go with that paranoid conspiracy theory again.

Sure I do. Autism is caused by exposure, at a young age, to bad internet posts.

Herd immunity is the paranoid conspiracy theory.

"It is never safe to assume anything" is not paranoid conspiracy theory. There you go again, making assumptions you do not know and self-proclaiming to be intelligent and to know the unknown.
 
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