Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[psychoslice]

A belief is that which you feel is true but have no concrete evidence for. You have a belief about vaccines. I've got facts, figures & decades-long studies from every corner of the planet.

Your move.

Yes figures can seem right, after a bit of manipulation, you can make anything seem true, if your wearing a white coat lol.

 

[arthra]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

I hadn't been aware that "common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses"./..

I believe from what I've read that the cells from long ago aborted fetuses were used to grow cultures...that are part of the vaccination process..."The WI-38 cell line is used as a culture to grow live viruses that are used in vaccines." so this is not the same thing as saying the vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses.

Baha'is are encouraged to consult with competent physicians and largely the decisions are made by the patient involved.. there is no prohibition to obtain a vaccination.

According to the explicit decree of Bahá'u'lláh one must not turn aside from the advice of a competent doctor. It is imperative to consult one even if the patient himself be a well-known and eminent physician. In short, the point is that you should maintain your health by consulting a highly-skilled physician.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 156

 

[Nietzsche]

Yes figures can seem right, after a bit of manipulation, you can make anything seem true, if your wearing a white coat lol.

So who's behind this 50-60+ year old, world-wide conspiracy? You know, involving tens of thousands of people, most of whom have never met or even aware of? Is it a hive-mind of some sort, to coordinate their actions? Because that's the only way your claim works.

But we've not even tackled the bigger question; why? There is no gain here. No money to be made, no power to obtain by doing this. There simply isn't an end-goal that would give you any kind of profit after the trillions of dollars spent on the research, production, distribution & administration of vaccines. Economically speaking vaccines are always a significant loss for the people doing it especially when you factor in the secondry requirements, like shipping it around the world or printing the pamphlets and such.

There's simply too much happening. It can't be done, and it certainly can't be done over decades, long after the first people involved have died.

 

[Pegg]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

I wasnt aware that this may be an ingredient of some vaccines. I knew about other dangerous ingredients such as murcury and formaldahyde and chlorine but never heard of this as an ingredient... thats pretty bad if its true.

I've been anti vaccine since my first child's bad reaction many years ago. After 'doing the right thing' and getting his first vaccines, he became very ill and had developmental problems thereafter... he did not start speaking properly until he was around 6. So after that experience i vowed i would not give vaccines to any future children and I didnt. My 2nd daughter did not get vaccinated and she is very healthy, had no issues with development and rarely gets sick apart from common colds, whereas my son is always getting sick.

I have never been against vax's for religious reasons. Although if there is a particular vaccine using aborted fetus products, then I would be against it for religious reasons because abortion is against Gods laws.

 

[Pegg]

Well that's you opinion , it means nothing to me, I have been hurt by your crap you call vaccines, have you ????.

I also experienced the side effects of vaccine. Thought i'd do myself a 'favor' and get the flu vaccine last year. I was sick for 3 months!!!

Never Again! I'll take the flu over the flu vaccine side effects any day thanks.

 

[psychoslice]

So who's behind this 50-60+ year old, world-wide conspiracy? You know, involving tens of thousands of people, most of whom have never met or even aware of? Is it a hive-mind of some sort, to coordinate their actions? Because that's the only way your claim works.

But we've not even tackled the bigger question; why? There is no gain here. No money to be made, no power to obtain by doing this. There simply isn't an end-goal that would give you any kind of profit after the trillions of dollars spent on the research, production, distribution & administration of vaccines. Economically speaking vaccines are always a significant loss for the people doing it especially when you factor in the secondry requirements, like shipping it around the world or printing the pamphlets and such.

There's simply too much happening. It can't be done, and it certainly can't be done over decades, long after the first people involved have died.

Well the wool has been pulled over your eye's, even most doctors don't even know the truth, they are taught to believe what is taught, that's medical science, but that doesn't mean that this science is perfect and fool proof. Money is also a big thing, yes the mighty dollar makes people do all sorts of bad things.

 

[psychoslice]

I also experienced the side effects of vaccine. Thought i'd do myself a 'favor' and get the flu vaccine last year. I was sick for 3 months!!!

Never Again! I'll take the flu over the flu vaccine side effects any day thanks.

Yes most friends I know who have had the flu vaccine also caught the flu, I haven't had the flu for many years, and I haven't been vaccinated. I have only had one vaccine in my whole life, and that one vaccine stuffed my whole life up, some people cannot see the truth because of the white coats and all their lies..

 

[Poisonshady313]

Pegg...Do you allow your child to consume apples? bananas? carrots? cucumbers? grapes? pears? plums? tomatoes? potatoes?

 

[Poisonshady313]

After 'doing the right thing' and getting his first vaccines, he became very ill and had developmental problems thereafter... he did not start speaking properly until he was around 6.

What makes you think vaccines caused his illness and/or developmental problems? What makes you think it couldn't have been anything else?

 

[Nietzsche]

Well the wool has been pulled over your eye's, even most doctors don't even know the truth, they are taught to believe what is taught, that's medical science, but that doesn't mean that this science is perfect and fool proof. Money is also a big thing, yes the mighty dollar makes people do all sorts of bad things.

I don't think you understood what I said. There is no money to be made here. Just developing a vaccine is ludicrously expensive. Then you've got to mass-produce it and distribute. You have to train people on how to administer them. All of that costs money. Even if the secondary expenses could be waived, the R&D eats insane amounts of money.

Pegg...Do you allow your child to consume apples? bananas? carrots? cucumbers? grapes? pears? plums? tomatoes? potatoes?

Don't do that, you'll die before you finish. Just list the foods we haven't engineered over the past hundred-thousand years..



^There we go. That should be all of em.

 

[Madhuri]

What makes you think vaccines caused his illness and/or developmental problems? What makes you think it couldn't have been anything else?

I don't know about Pegg but with most examples, the link is made because the kid seems completely normal and healthy until immediately -after- being vaccinated.
Is anyone really disputing that people can have terrible reactions? I thought that the main argument was that the ratio of non-reaction to reaction was good enough to justify vaccinating the population.

 

[Madhuri]

I don't think you understood what I said. There is no money to be made here. Just developing a vaccine is ludicrously expensive. Then you've got to mass-produce it and distribute. You have to train people on how to administer them. All of that costs money. Even if the secondary expenses could be waived, the R&D eats insane amounts of money.

This is contrary to what most people think. Do you have a source to validate this information? Pharma companies are generally known for making ridiculously huge sums of money. The costs I'm sure are high, but a single vaccine is also really expensive and millions upon millions of people get vaccinated every year. How would they not turn a profit?

 

[Nietzsche]

This is contrary to what most people think. Do you have a source to validate this information? Pharma companies are generally known for making ridiculously huge sums of money. The costs I'm sure are high, but a single vaccine is also really expensive and millions upon millions of people get vaccinated every year. How would they not turn a profit?

Sure; here you go

Risk in vaccine research & development.quantified.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I don't know about Pegg but with most examples, the link is made because the kid seems completely normal and healthy until immediately -after- being vaccinated.
Is anyone really disputing that people can have terrible reactions? I thought that the main argument was that the ratio of non-reaction to reaction was good enough to justify vaccinating the population.

Nobody is disputing that people CAN have terrible reactions... but there is something to be said for a tendency in people to just blame the vaccine out of sheer ignorance. Just throwing one's hands up in the air and saying "what the hell else could it be?"

Which could cause undue mistrust of vaccinations.

 

[InChrist]

Along with the safety issues associated with vaccines there is a big conflict of interest going on when the government which is supposed to be protecting the public is in financial league with the vaccine manufacturers.

Vaccine Mania: The Relationship between Government and Pharmaceutical Companies
"As we noted last year, there is an increasing tendency for immunization mandates to become a financial joint venture of the vaccine manufacturer and the government. The government is providing much of the funding manufacturers need to build facilities. So the government, which is supposed to regulate vaccine makers, becomes a full financial and operating partner with the companies they’re regulating! The government then turns around and orders us to be vaccinated or be ineligible for school—or in some cases go to jail!

As it stands now, the government gives patent protection and FDA approvals to pharmaceutical companies and thus creates medical monopolies. The government also exempts vaccine makers from legal liability. But when in addition the government invests in the business itself and partners with private companies, then adds the threat of jail for consumer non-compliance, we have a completely out-of-control situation. " excerpt from: Vaccine Mania: The Relationship between Government and Pharmaceutical Companies

Then there is the double standard with regard to safety and science of vaccines:

Vaccines, Neurodevelopment and Autism Spectrum Disorders
The Danger of Excessive Vaccination During Brain Development: The Case for a Link to Autism Spectrum Disorders

by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.
RussellBlaylockMD.com

"I find it interesting that there exist an incredible double standard when it comes to our evidence versus theirs. The proponents of vaccination safety can just say they are safe, without any supporting evidence what-so-ever, and it is to be accepted without question. They can announce that mercury is not only safe, but that it seems to actually increase the IQ, and we are to accept it. They can proclaim thimerosal safe to use in vaccines without their having ever been a single study on its safety in over 60 years of use, and we are to accept it. Yet, let me, or anyone else, suggest that excessive vaccination can increase the risk of not only autism, but also schizophrenia and neurodegenerative diseases, and they will scream like banshees –Where is the evidence? Where is the evidence? When we produce study after study, they always proclaim them to be insufficient evidence or unacceptable studies. More often than not, they just completely ignore the evidence. This is despite the fact that we produce dozens or even hundreds of studies that not only demonstrate the link clinically and scientifically, but also clearly show the mechanism by which the damage is being done –even on a molecular level. These include cell culture studies, mixed cell cultures, organotypic tissue studies, in vivo animal studies using multiple species and even human studies. To the defenders of vaccine safety-our evidence is never sufficient and, if we face reality –never will be". - See more at: Dr. Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. – The Danger of Excessive Vaccination During Brain Development: Link to Autism

Read more about vaccines from these physicians below:

Susan McCreadie, MD: I Rest Easier NOT Vaccinating my Children
Richard Moskowitz, M. D. – The Case Against Immunization
Dr. Paul Thomas, M.D. – Preserve Medical Freedom – Vaccines Linked to Autism
Dr. Toni Bark, M.D. – Do Not Remove Vaccine Exemptions – Some Children Die from Vaccines
Nicholas Gonzalez, M.D. – Scientifically No Polio Vaccine was Needed
Dr. Russell L. Blaylock, M.D. – The Danger of Excessive Vaccination During Brain Development: Link to Autism
Dr. Brownstein, M.D. – Human DNA From Fetal Cells in Measles Vaccine Could be Linked to Increase in Autism
Dr. Michael Elice M.D. – Media Promoting Medical Harm to Our Children
Dr. Lee Hieb M.D. – Vaccine Hysteria Could Spark Totalitarian Nightmare
Doctors Against Vaccines: The Other Side of the Story is Not Being Told
Dr. Rowen: Measles Spread by those Vaccinated
Dr. Humphries: The Truth About Measles the Mainstream Media is Suppressing
Former UCLA Medical Center Pediatrician: Let Parents Choose on Measles Vaccine
Doctors Against Mandated Flu Vaccines

 

[Poisonshady313]

Don't do that, you'll die before you finish. Just list the foods we haven't engineered over the past hundred-thousand years..

The thing I was getting at is that all those things naturally contain formaldehyde.

 

[psychoslice]

Pegg...Do you allow your child to consume apples? bananas? carrots? cucumbers? grapes? pears? plums? tomatoes? potatoes?

Yes the best thing against getting any illness is to keep the immune system up to scratch, not vaccines.

 

[Pegg]

What makes you think vaccines caused his illness and/or developmental problems? What makes you think it couldn't have been anything else?

because the day he got the vaccine he started developing a fever which got very high and he had to go to hospital. There was no other explanation for it. No one else was sick in the house.

We are told what the adverse side effects can be and he had them. So it was the vaccine. But of course the medical fraternity will never admit liability and will claim that anything may have caused the developmental problems. It can't be proved otherwise which is convenient for them, but not for the families who have to deal with the effects for years to come.

 

[Pegg]

Pegg...Do you allow your child to consume apples? bananas? carrots? cucumbers? grapes? pears? plums? tomatoes? potatoes?

of course. Why?

 

[Nietzsche]

This is contrary to what most people think. Do you have a source to validate this information? Pharma companies are generally known for making ridiculously huge sums of money. The costs I'm sure are high, but a single vaccine is also really expensive and millions upon millions of people get vaccinated every year. How would they not turn a profit?

Regarding the cost(as in paying for in the States and such) of vaccines;

You're forgetting the aid-mission vaccinations. Massive quantities of multiple vaccines that have to be shipped or flown to its destination. Then you have inevitable product loss due to conditions or bad luck, which have to be replaced. And with the aid missions, you've got to hire translators, in-region transportation and other extremely expensive logistic & secondary requirements.