Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[Poisonshady313]

of course. Why?

They all naturally contain formaldehyde.

Cheese contains formaldehyde AND chlorine.

Rice contains chlorine AND mercury.


Certain things in low enough doses may sound scary, but aren't as dangerous as you'd think.

 

[Pegg]

I don't know about Pegg but with most examples, the link is made because the kid seems completely normal and healthy until immediately -after- being vaccinated.
Is anyone really disputing that people can have terrible reactions? I thought that the main argument was that the ratio of non-reaction to reaction was good enough to justify vaccinating the population.

Yes thats what annoys me about the anti-vax propagander we are hearing so much about lately. The justification for immunising everyone is that only a small percentage of people get sick, or worse die, from the vaccine.
Yet exactly the same justification can be made for the opposing view. Only a very small percentage of people catch diseases from non-vaccinated individuals and only a very small number of them may die from catching diseases.

So who's right?

My reasoning has always been the same. I dont want to be the one who deliberately gives my kids a vaccine which may adversely affect their health for the rest of their lives...nor could i live with myself if the vaccine i agreed to is the small percentage of vaccines which cause serious injury or death. (Yes death! there are reported cases of children dying from a 'bad batch' of vaccines)

 

[Pegg]

They all naturally contain formaldehyde.

Cheese contains formaldehyde AND chlorine.

Rice contains chlorine AND mercury.


Certain things in low enough doses may sound scary, but aren't as dangerous as you'd think.

the difference is that those ingredients do not occur 'naturally' at naturally safe levels in vaccination concoctions. They are added in there to use as preservatives.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes thats what annoys me about the anti-vax propagander we are hearing so much about lately. The justification for immunising everyone is that only a small percentage of people get sick, or worse die, from the vaccine.
Yet exactly the same justification can be made for the opposing view. Only a very small percentage of people catch diseases from non-vaccinated individuals and only a very small number of them may die from catching diseases.

Actually that's only half the opposing viewpoint. The other half is, is it right for a portion of the population to not get immunized thereby increasing the chances of diseases we've all but eradicated to gain a foothold and render our medical jumps ahead null and void, all because of side affects of a small amount of people (which by the way happens with EVERY medication known to mankind.)

 

[Poisonshady313]

the difference is that those ingredients do not occur 'naturally' at naturally safe levels in vaccination concoctions. They are added in there to use as preservatives.

At safe levels.

 

[Pegg]

Actually that's only half the opposing viewpoint. The other half is, is it right for a portion of the population to not get immunized thereby increasing the chances of diseases we've all but eradicated to gain a foothold and render our medical jumps ahead null and void, all because of side affects of a small amount of people (which by the way happens with EVERY medication known to mankind.)

it should be a personal choice.

If anyone is seriously concerned about getting a communicable disease, they have every right to get a vaccination. It would be nice if those who dont' want to be vaccinated could be afforded the same right to choose. Afterall, there are risks and some people dont want to take the risk.

 

[SomeRandom]

the difference is that those ingredients do not occur 'naturally' at naturally safe levels in vaccination concoctions. They are added in there to use as preservatives.

A chemist isn't just going to throw in mercury or formaldehyde and call it a vaccination. That's against their job on a professional level, a legal level and an ethical level. They have this thing called an "equation" which basically means they have a specific amount of each of the chemicals they use and every single one of them is far below even what we qualify as "safe for human consumption" levels. Otherwise we'd ALL die from vaccinations!

 

[Pegg]

At safe levels.

well thats what they tells us. But when we take a tiny newborn baby to get a vaccine, that baby does not have an active immune system working until they are 6months old. So who made the decision to give newborns a dose of something which their little body is unable to process?

Babys get immunity from their mothers milk for the first 6 months of their life. If i've got antibodies to a disease, the baby will get those antibodies directly from my milk. That is why breast feeding is sooooooooo important. Yet the same medical fraternity who promote vaccinations also promote feeding our babies cows milk with added nutrients!

I dont think they are entirely trustworthy to be honest with you.

 

[Pegg]

A chemist isn't just going to throw in mercury or formaldehyde and call it a vaccination. That's against their job on a professional level, a legal level and an ethical level. They have this thing called an "equation" which basically means they have a specific amount of each of the chemicals they use and every single one of them is far below even what we qualify as "safe for human consumption" levels. Otherwise we'd ALL die from vaccinations!

sure, i appreciate that. They are only doing their job.

 

[Tumah]

You're right, I didn't pose an actual question. Someone said earlier that they think kids who aren't immunised shouldn't be allowed to go to school. Someone else agreed. I didn't, particularly in a country like Australia where there isn't any disease epidemic for those particular common diseases that we vaccinate against. To make such a ban on kids, even if we're just talking hypothetically, seems totalitarian to me. But I'm happy for people to explain why it isn't totalitarian or why it's a really good idea for kids to be banned from school if they don't get immunised.

I think that's the right thing to do. The government has a responsibility to ensure the health of its children. If individuals are unwilling to take proper steps to do so, then the government has to take whatever preventative measures are available to it to ensure the health of the rest of the population. Parents tat don't want to inoculate, can send their children to private schools just as parents that want their children to have religious education send their children.

 

[SomeRandom]

it should be a personal choice.

If anyone is seriously concerned about getting a communicable disease, they have every right to get a vaccination. It would be nice if those who dont' want to be vaccinated could be afforded the same right to choose. Afterall, there are risks and some people dont want to take the risk.

I can appreciate that a negative reaction would put people off vaccinations. You have my sympathies. Of course if we're going by anecdotal evidence, then I can name several women who kept on vaccinating their kids even after a "bad/negative" reaction without a single bad thing happening after the first incident. So..........

However that "choice" you speak off puts newborn babies, Cancer patients, people with auto immune deficiencies and eventually even the vaccinated public at risk for becoming sick and possibly dying en mass from preventable diseases. It's one thing to choose alternative medicines for yourself, or reject medical advice from doctors. That's a choice. It's quite another to put everyone else at risk just because someone as a layperson (who doesn't fully understand science) doesn't trust it anymore due to a potential negative side affect.

 

[Poisonshady313]

it should be a personal choice.

If anyone is seriously concerned about getting a communicable disease, they have every right to get a vaccination. It would be nice if those who dont' want to be vaccinated could be afforded the same right to choose. Afterall, there are risks and some people dont want to take the risk.

Don't let your children drive until they are 21. Auto accidents are the leading cause of death for people between the ages of 15 and 20.

Heck.. don't let them drive. Ever. Wouldn't want you to be a hypocrite and expose your children to the possibility of being a statistic.

While you're at it.. keep them away from vending machines. An average of 2 people die per year from a vending machine related incident. It's not likely to happen to your kids... but hey, you can't be too careful.

And oh yeah... keep them away from beds. 450 people die from falling out of bed each year. Is that a risk you want your kids to take?

 

[SomeRandom]

sure, i appreciate that. They are only doing their job.

Exactly, and their job comes with a responsibility. To ensure everything they make for the public has no quantity of "toxic" chemicals that would cause death or are at unsafe levels for humans to come into contact with.

I mean if we're going to use chemicals as a boogeyman, then hey stay away from water man. Drink too much of that and you're dead!

 

[Poisonshady313]

well thats what they tells us. But when we take a tiny newborn baby to get a vaccine, that baby does not have an active immune system working until they are 6months old. So who made the decision to give newborns a dose of something which their little body is unable to process?

Babys get immunity from their mothers milk for the first 6 months of their life. If i've got antibodies to a disease, the baby will get those antibodies directly from my milk. That is why breast feeding is sooooooooo important. Yet the same medical fraternity who promote vaccinations also promote feeding our babies cows milk with added nutrients!

I dont think they are entirely trustworthy to be honest with you.

"It turns out that newborn babies, albeit fragile, have immune systems that are stronger than you think. New research shows that newborn immune T cells may have the ability to trigger an inflammatory response to bacteria, an important immune response."

Newborn Babies' Immune Systems Stronger Than You Think : Health & Medicine : Nature World News

Besides... I think the overwhelmingly obvious fact that negative vaccine reactions are extremely rare kinda foils your "babies are unable to process it therefore it's bad for them" argument.

 

[SomeRandom]

Don't let your children drive until they are 21. Auto accidents are the leading cause of death for people between the ages of 15 and 20.

Heck.. don't let them drive. Ever. Wouldn't want you to be a hypocrite and expose your children to the possibility of being a statistic.

While you're at it.. keep them away from vending machines. An average of 2 people die per year from a vending machine related incident. It's not likely to happen to your kids... but hey, you can't be too careful.

And oh yeah... keep them away from beds. 450 people die from falling out of bed each year. Is that a risk you want your kids to take?

Sorry but I had to LOL at the statistic between people dying from vending machines and people dying from falling out of bed.
Who knew it was such a Russian Roulette just going to bed of a nighttime!?!
Oh I'm going to hell, I just know it.

 

[YmirGF]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

Personally speaking, I think those who are anti-vaccine are simply moronic and have far greater issues to deal with.

 

[Madhuri]

Personally speaking, I think those who are anti-vaccine are simply moronic and have far greater issues to deal with.

Personally speaking, I think that this is an arrogant claim that does not take into account why people are anti-vax. It's just so easy to point a finger and say "you're an idiot" than it is to try to understand why people think what they do.

 

[psychoslice]

Personally speaking, I think those who are anti-vaccine are simply moronic and have far greater issues to deal with.

Yes I think the same for those who do believe in vaccines, see, it can be both ways.

 

[SomeRandom]

Personally speaking, I think that this is an arrogant claim that does not take into account why people are anti-vax. It's just so easy to point a finger and say "you're an idiot" than it is to try to understand why people think what they do.

If you look at the arguments mate it becomes abundantly clear that the anti vax positions come from ignorance and arrogance, which relies on purposely distorting medicl data, not completely understanding science and vaccines as a whole, baseless claims, Conflating correlation with causation and conspiracy theories. There's skepticism and then there's just plain ignorance. Call a spade a spade.
Now I can appreciate why some might hold an anti vax position. Negative experiences and all that. I mean that's fair enough but even on this thread the supposed arguments haven't strayed that far from what I mentioned previously. Perhaps someone can give a rational argument, so I look forward to that. As it stands I agree with YmirGF

 

[shawn001]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines

What Aborted Fetuses Have to Do With Vaccines - ABC News

A global pandemic could kill millions perhaps billions or even an extinction event.