Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[Poisonshady313]

Why would the 'vaccinated public' be at risk of someone who is not vaccinated? If they are vaccinated, aren't they safe?

I think older kids and adults can be vaccinated without too much problem. I take issue with vaccination of very young babies because of the immune system issue. Immune systems do not naturally begin to function until around 6 months of age. So why vaccinate a newborn? It doesnt make sense nor is it 'scientific' as it doesnt work with nature and what is known about the immune systems in young babies.

Vaccines
Since babies have underdeveloped immune systems, they are more vulnerable to infections and diseases than adults, even with the passive immunity they gain through their mothers. Thus, several vaccines are given to babies to help protect them against illnesses.

Vaccines work by stimulating the body's immune system. Vaccines contain small amounts of inactivated, disease-causing organisms. This allows the immune system to produce antibodies to the foreign invader. Once antibodies are developed, the immune system is able to respond quickly to the infection if the disease-causing organism ever enters the body. After receiving a vaccine, the patient becomes immune to the specific illness.

Babies typically receive vaccines for diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, measles, rubella (German measles), mumps, and a type of flu called Hemophilus B. influenza.

Most vaccines are given when the baby reaches two months old because this is when the high level of antibodies passed on by the mother begins to decline. Many vaccines require more than one shot. These additional shots, also called booster shots, ensure that enough antibodies are produced to make the vaccine effective.

In general, vaccines are considered safe and effective for babies. Side effects may include a mild fever or skin rash.

Newborn immune system

 

[Pegg]

Compelling the administration of vaccinations, the rewards for which overwhelmingly outweigh the risks, is not quite the same thing... not even in an abstract way... as harvesting organs from prisoners.

state sanctioned vaccinations are no different in my books.

 

[Flankerl]

Yes the best thing against getting any illness is to keep the immune system up to scratch, not vaccines.

Yeah uhm no. How come so many well nourished and healthy people died during the Black Death or Spanish flu?
How come well nourished and healthy people die from smallpox, Malaria, ...........?

Yes thats what annoys me about the anti-vax propagander we are hearing so much about lately. The justification for immunising everyone is that only a small percentage of people get sick, or worse die, from the vaccine.
Yet exactly the same justification can be made for the opposing view. Only a very small percentage of people catch diseases from non-vaccinated individuals and only a very small number of them may die from catching diseases.

So who's right?

My reasoning has always been the same. I dont want to be the one who deliberately gives my kids a vaccine which may adversely affect their health for the rest of their lives...nor could i live with myself if the vaccine i agreed to is the small percentage of vaccines which cause serious injury or death. (Yes death! there are reported cases of children dying from a 'bad batch' of vaccines)

That's okay just stay on your side of the Atlantic.

Why would the 'vaccinated public' be at risk of someone who is not vaccinated? If they are vaccinated, aren't they safe?

Herd immunity. We had that on one of the first pages.

I think older kids and adults can be vaccinated without too much problem. I take issue with vaccination of very young babies because of the immune system issue. Immune systems do not naturally begin to function until around 6 months of age. So why vaccinate a newborn? It doesnt make sense nor is it 'scientific' as it doesnt work with nature and what is known about the immune systems in young babies.

If newborns are so fragile how come they survive coming out of a Vagina, a place with billions of bacteria which the newborn has never encountered before?

 

[Pegg]

Yeah uhm no. How come so many well nourished and healthy people died during the Black Death or Spanish flu?
How come well nourished and healthy people die from smallpox, Malaria, ...........?





That's okay just stay on your side of the Atlantic.




Herd immunity. We had that on one of the first pages.




If newborns are so fragile how come they survive coming out of a Vagina, a place with billions of bacteria which the newborn has never encountered before?

this is beginning to sound more like 'herd mentality' then anything else.

 

[Flankerl]

Well if you are so healthy and well nourished why don't you ask the US Government to use you as a test subject for smallpox?
Because behind various guarded doors there are strains of smallpox being kept.

I am sure your immune system will win. Don't be a scaredy cat.

 

[philbo]

state sanctioned vaccinations are no different in my books.

That's just plain silly. On the one hand, you've got a state (allegedly) secretly killing dissenters and harvesting their organs - according to the more lurid reports without anaesthetic.

On the other hand, there's a miniscule risk (you are thousands of times more likely to be harmed crossing a road than getting a vaccination; and hundreds of thousands of times more likely to be damaged from contracting diseases such as measles, mumps, polio, flu etc. than you are from being vaccinated against these things), and by not being vaccinated you are increasing the risk levels for others, especially the vulnerable in society.

If it wasn't for the increased risk to the sensible, vaccinated part of the population, I'd be completely happy with allowing people not to be vaccinated against some of the more serious contagious diseases: if they remove themselves from the gene pool, that's fine with me. But they're putting at risk people who aren't so stupid and selfish.

If you can't see the difference between this and killing people for their organs, the problem's purely in your own head.

 

[Pegg]

That's just plain silly. On the one hand, you've got a state (allegedly) secretly killing dissenters and harvesting their organs - according to the more lurid reports without anaesthetic.

On the other hand, there's a miniscule risk (you are thousands of times more likely to be harmed crossing a road than getting a vaccination; and hundreds of thousands of times more likely to be damaged from contracting diseases such as measles, mumps, polio, flu etc. than you are from being vaccinated against these things), and by not being vaccinated you are increasing the risk levels for others, especially the vulnerable in society.

If it wasn't for the increased risk to the sensible, vaccinated part of the population, I'd be completely happy with allowing people not to be vaccinated against some of the more serious contagious diseases: if they remove themselves from the gene pool, that's fine with me. But they're putting at risk people who aren't so stupid and selfish.

If you can't see the difference between this and killing people for their organs, the problem's purely in your own head.

If you want vacs then you are entitled to have them. No one is stopping you.

But if you dont want vacs, there are a myriad of people who want to force to you have it. Thats the problem.

 

[psychoslice]

If you want vacs then you are entitled to have them. No one is stopping you.

But if you dont want vacs, there are a myriad of people who want to force to you have it. Thats the problem.

This is a big problem, the funny thing is, why are those who are vaccinated worried about those who are not vaccinated, after all they should be protected from the diseases lol.

 

[Poisonshady313]

But if you dont want vacs, there are a myriad of people who want to force to you have it. Thats the problem.

On the contrary... you thinking it's a problem is the problem. There is indeed a very good reason why there are a myriad of people who want to force you to have it.

That reason is this...

Basically it works like this if you have a part of the population who did not vaccinate then they are viable hosts for viruses. The more viable hosts the more chance a virus has to mutate as it spreads. This mutating can potentially mean the virus becomes immune to vaccines thereby making our current vaccines useless. Ergo the vaccinated people become at risk for said mutated virus. That's why people are angry at the anti vaxxers. They actually have the potential to literally undo vaccines!!!!
In order to minimise that risk we immunise as many people as possible. If there's hardly any potential hosts for a virus then that virus has a harder time latching onto something. This reduces the chances that it can mutate.

 

[Poisonshady313]

This is a big problem, the funny thing is, why are those who are vaccinated worried about those who are not vaccinated, after all they should be protected from the diseases lol.

read this

Basically it works like this if you have a part of the population who did not vaccinate then they are viable hosts for viruses. The more viable hosts the more chance a virus has to mutate as it spreads. This mutating can potentially mean the virus becomes immune to vaccines thereby making our current vaccines useless. Ergo the vaccinated people become at risk for said mutated virus. That's why people are angry at the anti vaxxers. They actually have the potential to literally undo vaccines!!!!
In order to minimise that risk we immunise as many people as possible. If there's hardly any potential hosts for a virus then that virus has a harder time latching onto something. This reduces the chances that it can mutate.

 

[Pegg]

This is a big problem, the funny thing is, why are those who are vaccinated worried about those who are not vaccinated, after all they should be protected from the diseases lol.

Yeah exactly. And if vaccination is not 100% protection, then they are compromising their immune systems for nothing.

Anyway, the point is we should have a right to say yes or no to vacs... I appreciate the right to self determination because its part of being human. Some people would want to take that away from us and its plain wrong.

 

[Pegg]

On the contrary... you thinking it's a problem is the problem. There is indeed a very good reason why there are a myriad of people who want to force you to have it.

That reason is this...

I determine what i put into my body, no one else.

Its basic human rights mate.

 

[Poisonshady313]

And if vaccination is not 100% protection, then they are compromising their immune systems for nothing.

A statement that proves you know nothing about how vaccination works.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah exactly. And if vaccination is not 100% protection, then they are compromising their immune systems for nothing.

Anyway, the point is we should have a right to say yes or no to vacs... I appreciate the right to self determination because its part of being human. Some people would want to take that away from us and its plain wrong.

Choice is one thing. Opening up the larger society to a myriad of preventable and often debilitating diseases is just plain selfishness and arrogance.

Like seriously mate? I explained specifically how a Vaccination works (albeit on a very basic level, I ain't no Biologist after all) and you still miss the point of why we Vaccinate as many people as possible?

You know what? **** it. I have an idea. How about everyone who chooses to not vaccinate (and I'm not talking about flu vaccines even) go all live together on an island for a year. See how much you guys like it when you don't have a layer of herd immunity to slow down preventable illnesses. Or failing that visit a country where people line up for days for even the chance to get a vaccine. Go on. Put your amazing immune system to the test. I dare you!

 

[Pegg]

A statement that proves you know nothing about how vaccination works.

people who have adverse reactions to immunisation are having their immune system compromised....thats what the adverse reaction is. Its what happens when your immune system is not coping with the injection.

But hey, no one is saying you shouldnt have immunisations. You can by all means have as many as you like.

 

[Pegg]

Choice is one thing. Opening up the larger society to a myriad of preventable and often debilitating diseases is just plain selfishness and arrogance.

Like seriously mate? I explained specifically how a Vaccination works (albeit on a very basic level, I ain't no Biologist after all) and you still miss the point of why we Vaccinate as many people as possible?

You know what? **** it. I have an idea. How about everyone who chooses to not vaccinate (and I'm not talking about flu vaccines even) go all live together on an island for a year. See how much you guys like it when you don't have a layer of herd immunity to slow down preventable illnesses. Or failing that visit a country where people line up for days for even the chance to get a vaccine. Go on. Put your amazing immune system to the test. I dare you!

The human race has survived this long... immunisation is a very new thing.

 

[SomeRandom]

The human race has survived this long... immunisation is a very new thing.

Yeah, barely. Remember learning about the Black Death? Killed something like 3/4 of the population in Europe back in the day. You know how many people died from Small Pox? How about Polio (before the Iron Lung was a thing)? How about Malaria? Spanish Flu?

It's very easy to say "oh we survived this long" in the modern Era, where we have advanced in Medical Science and we are in a generation which does not remember people dying en mass.

Somehow I don't think Nations which do not have the same access to such luxuries as readily available vaccines would have the same flippant attitude towards Public Health, though. Just a hunch.

 

[Poisonshady313]

people who have adverse reactions to immunisation are having their immune system compromised....

No, they're not.

thats what the adverse reaction is. Its what happens when your immune system is not coping with the injection.

No. It's not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hi everyone,
it's recently come to my attention that a number of common vaccinations contain cells from aborted fetuses. But I'm also aware that most people, including religious people, get vaccinated. I have a Christin friend who is a Pharmacist and who is anti-vax specifically because of this ingredient. But how common is it for religious people who are against abortion to get themselves and their children vaccinated?

Are you one of these people or are you a religious person who avoids vaccination for religious reasons?

Do vaccines contain cells from aborted fetuses?

No. Vaccines do not contain human cells or tissue.

Fetal cells - Immunize Canada

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would the 'vaccinated public' be at risk of someone who is not vaccinated? If they are vaccinated, aren't they safe?

If you use your seat belt and your car has air bags, why would you have a problem with me speeding? Aren't you safe?