Vaccinations and Religious Exemptions

[We Never Know]

Meanwhile I Google searched "vaccinations and autism" and then went to scholarly article. The first one listed:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673699012398

For measles, mumps, and rubella, no evidence of casual association.

I already stated studies show no connection.

 

[We Never Know]

I would not think that the undeveloped world would have nearly as many vaccinations.

They pretty much are behind on everything

 

[We Never Know]

Do you have a reliable source?

I'm not doing your search for you. I gave you the post .

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not doing your search for you. I gave you the post .

I read the post, I went to the source. In one word it sucked. In the U.S. the criteria for autism have changed over the years. The biggest cause of "increase" appears to be that people that were not called autistic in the past are considered to be so now. You source did not show that the same standards for "autistic" were used. That makes it of no value.

So you know that all real studies find no connection. But since I was going to do a whole series here is the next article that I was going to link:

Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism

And this is a case of you refusing to do your homework, not me not doing mine. You found a very questionable source that does not properly support its claims. If you want to claim a connection the burden of proof is still upon you.

 

[We Never Know]

I read the post, I went to the source. In one word it sucked. In the U.S. the criteria for autism have changed over the years. The biggest cause of "increase" appears to be that people that were not called autistic in the past are considered to be so now. You source did not show that the same standards for "autistic" were used. That makes it of no value.

So you know that all real studies find no connection. But since I was going to do a whole series here is the next article that I was going to link:

Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism

And this is a case of you refusing to do your homework, not me not doing mine. You found a very questionable source that does not properly support its claims. If you want to claim a connection the burden of proof is still upon you.

Nothing wrong with the source besides your normal "I don't like it". I agree autism rates are up. There is no test, scan or objective test that can diagnose autism. Diagnoses rely on observations of a person’s behavior to diagnose the condition. However
increases in diagnoses are credited to changes to the condition’s diagnostic criteria.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing wrong with the source besides your normal "I don't like it". I agree autism rates are up. There is no test, scan or objective test that can diagnose autism. Diagnoses rely on observations of a person’s behavior to diagnose the condition. However
increases in diagnoses are credited to changes to the condition’s diagnostic criteria.

I explained the problems with it. Without a way to verify that they are using the same standards for "autism" it is worthless. Why is this so hard to understand? This is not a case of "I don't like it" It is a case of a poorly done "study".

I just looked at it once again. It is even worse than I thought. No sources cited. That should have set off alarm bells. A proper study not only cites its sources but links them as well.

 

[We Never Know]

I explained the problems with it. Without a way to verify that they are using the same standards for "autism" it is worthless. Why is this so hard to understand? This is not a case of "I don't like it" It is a case of a poorly done "study".

What is the standard for autism?

You're predictable. That's one thing I like about you.

Perhaps you need to read my post again. Not once did I say they are connected. I also gave a scenario of what if they were and it was made public. What would happen. But of course you ignored over half the post.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is the standard for autism?

You're predictable. That's one thing I like about you.

Perhaps you need to read my post again. Not once did I say they are connected. I also gave a scenario of what if they were and it was made public. What would happen. But of course you ignored over half the post.

Of course I am predictable. I reason rationally. That means when people make irrational posts there will be limited responses to them.

Once again, your source is of no value. They do not cite their sources, they do not link their sources. They do not tell us what the various standards of "autism" were used. Do you need me to support my claim about how people have been classified "autistic" or not has changed? All you have to do is to ask nicely

 

[We Never Know]

Of course I am predictable. I reason rationally. That means when people make irrational posts there will be limited responses to them.

Once again, your source is of no value. They do not cite their sources, they do not link their sources. They do not tell us what the various standards of "autism" were used. Do you need me to support my claim about how people have been classified "autistic" or not has changed? All you have to do is to ask nicely

Creationist are predictable too. Your opinion doesn't discredit the link. Other than that you are free to do as you choose.

 

[We Never Know]

Any support for your claims. That the U.S. vaccinates more than any other country for one. That we have a higher rate of autism. Comparing autism rates is extremely difficult because there is no international standard on what autism is.

Support your claims and then I will gladly support mine.

19 shots before the age of 1.
36-38 shots by the age of the age of 12. Now I ask that you to provide a country that beats that. I know you won't and can't but I still have to ask.

Birth:
-the first of 3 doses of the vaccine that protects against Hepatitis B.

1 to 2 months:
-Hepatitis B (2nd dose)
-Diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough (pertussis) (DTaP)
-Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
-Polio (IPV)
-Pneumococcal (PCV)
-Rotavirus (RV)

4 months:
-Diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough (pertussis) (DTaP)
-Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
-Polio (IPV)
-Pneumococcal (PCV)
-Rotavirus (RV)
-Hepatitis B (HepB)

6 months:
-Diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough (pertussis) (DTaP)
-Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
-Polio (IPV)
-Pneumococcal (PCV)
-Rotavirus (RV)
-Influenza (flu)

12 to 23 months:
-Chickenpox (Varicella)
-Diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough (pertussis) (DTaP)
-Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
-Measles, mumps, rubella (MMR)
-Polio (IPV) (between 6 through 18 months)
-Pneumococcal (PCV)
-Hepatitis A (HepA)
-Hepatitis B (HepB)

4 to 6 years:
-Diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough (pertussis) (DTaP)
-Polio (IPV)
-Measles, mumps and rubella (MMR)
-Chickenpox (varicella)
-Influenza (flu) every year

11 to 12 years:
-Meningococcal conjugate vaccine
-HPV vaccine
-Tdap
-Flu vaccine every flu season

Recommended Vaccines by Age | CDC

 

[We Never Know]

Of course, Mississippi is one of the poorest states in the nation and there are many factors associated with poverty and infant mortality. It might be that mortality would be higher if not for the vaccination record.

Is it an epidemic or is it a case where physicians are increasingly more capable of identifying the condition of autism? Again, there are many potential factors that could be triggering autism, though it appears to have a strong genetic component involved. At this point, there is no evidence that vaccines cause or are associated with triggering autism.

I don't think we have any way of knowing what the mortality rate there would be without vaccines, higher lower, who knows.
Mississippi may as well be the poorest state but they are the most vaccinated. I don't have a problem with vaccines as I had my children get them.
I see where some suburbs in Chicago are having cases of measles pop up and in a New York suburb it's bad enough for them to declare an emergency and ban unvaccinated children from public.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Diphtheria was NOT one of the childhood diseases for which mothers attempted to deliberately infect their young children. I was speaking about measles, mumps and rubella. Diphtheria was a killer that ran in epidemics and sometimes wiped out whole families, especially at a time when poverty was rife, resulting in poor nutrition and low resistance to infection, especially in winter. Vaccination in that case helped in later years. But again Diphtheria vaccination was given in conjunction with Tetanus and Whooping Cough. Who do we know that has ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus and Whooping Cough all at the same time? That is a lot for a child's immune system to deal with.

So what? It's a disease that used to kill children, and now it doesn't, thanks to vaccines.

We don't know anyone who has had all of those things at once, because we live in a vaccinated world. If we were alive 150 years ago, we would have seen people dying and/or being permanently injured from all of these diseases.

I've seen this argument before that the vaccination schedule is too heavy, and I don't see any merit to it. The amount of germs that babies are exposed to in vaccines pale in comparison to the amount of germs babies come into contact with in their surroundings on a daily basis. Are you under the impression that health care practitioners just willy-nilly decided on a vaccine schedule, without first testing it for safety? Why?

There are quite a few diseases that have been dealt with effectively through vaccination.....smallpox and polio for example. But that does not mean that all vaccinations available today are safe or effective. More research needs to be done....especially if you take into account the rates of autism in unvaccinated children. Where are those stats?

More research … like what? What do you think is lacking? Why do you think vaccines are not properly tested?

Not at that time. Only a few were available back in those days....and we never even heard of autism. These days everyone knows someone with an autistic child. Someone with measles who dies of a complication, makes headlines. Scare tactics work....emotional manipulation is powerful via carefully crafted propaganda.

That’s because autism wasn’t recognized until 1980.


The reason autism seems so prevalent now is because over the last couple of decades the diagnostic criteria has been modified and expanded, with a more general list of symptoms, so that it is now diagnosed along a spectrum, which means that more people are being diagnosed. In other words, the definition of autism was widened to include more people than the previous definition included.

....who is doing the studies? This is the fox guarding the hen house.


Here is the other side of that story...


Let’s Go Find Unvaccinated Children with Autism

No, it isn’t. It’s people doing proper science. I linked the study though, funny how you didn’t bother checking it out.


The people doing the studies are multiple groups of independent researchers all over the world over time.

Presently, 1 in 59 children in the US has some form of autism. Something is causing it. If alternative studies are finding that unvaccinated children have a very low rate of autism, then we should have options based on what we believe to be true. I am against forcing people to be vaccinated...or even guilt tripping them into it, when the "studies" have been a bit of a fraud in some cases.....based on vested financial interests.

Which studies are “a bit of a fraud?” Please be specific. Because when you say that, Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent study linking autism with vaccines immediately comes to mind.

Our choice should be an informed one....not based on one side of this issue presented to people as the only truth. Safety for all children should come first. Independent research is the only one without an agenda.

I have no idea where you get the idea that vaccines are not heavily studied and tested with safety concerns in mind.

I have very good reasons for not trusting in big corporations whose only concern is profit. Corruption is everywhere.

There are no sound studies linking vaccines with autism.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Your hair is part of you too, and your nails, but you cut them all the time. I also cut off calluses.

Gimme a break.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I really don't think you can't understand this.

Oh, I understand it all too well. That's why I have a problem with it.

The fact that you refuse to answer the question speaks volumes, I think.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You didn't respond to what I wrote about imposing things on people for their own good.

What good?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What good?

The good of being part of a close knit tribal people that cares for one another.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I am saying that because FGM destroys a natural body function, it is mutilation, and because circumcision does not destroy a natural body function, it is not mutilation.

I have repeated this quite often in this thread.

I suppose we will have to disagree. I consider both as mutilation, though your qualification may bear some thought.

 

[Woberts]

The good of being part of a close knit tribal people that cares for one another.

And the cat is out of the bag. You finally admit it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And the cat is out of the bag. You finally admit it.

Finally???? I have said this all along. Perhaps you haven't been following the conversation.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

And be sure you read my post right. I posted "The U.S. administers more vaccines than any other developed country

There are so many potential exposures in modern society. It makes me curious. It could be any of millions of chemicals, combinations or none at all and largely genetic. So far, no research supports a vaccine connection.

Nice stats by the way. Very interesting and informative.