Vaccinations and Religious Exemptions

[We Never Know]

I would feel the same way, though maybe not as bad as I would if they died of some disease, because I failed to protect them. These things are tested.



We also have to rational and weigh risks. I have done that and benefited from it. My children are benefiting from it. Scare tactics are not the answer.

No. Everything has a risk. What you are saying is that your fear trumps the right of others not to be exposed to diseased people. You are ignoring the value that vaccines have provided this society and how rampant disease would not have resulted in a population that has been growing exponentially for the last 100 years, in part from medicine, including vaccines.

They do. People do not always listen. Some people are even ignorant enough to ignore what they learn about the values of vaccination.

Vaccines do not make that much money for pharmaceutical companies. Using this objection is silly.

Some articles say profits are high and driving it all, while others say they aren't the most profitable product for the companies. All depending on the article a person reads

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Some articles say profits are high and driving it all, while others say they aren't the most profitable product for the companies. All depending on the article a person reads

According to what I have been reading, during the 80's most manufacturers had gotten out of the vaccine market, but today, thanks to advances in vaccines, increased safety and demand, it is becoming very profitable.

The argument that we cannot trust people that make profit is a weak argument, without evidence that something is actually going on. It is guilt by association and not evidence that vaccines are harmful.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

While they can't really get a mortality rate of how many would have died if they didn't get vaccines, we can show mortality rate with vaccines.

The United States gives more vaccines to than other countries, has the highest rate of autism, and has the highest mortality rate in children under 5 years old.
Fourteen Studies

Mississippi has the highest rate of vaccination in the U.S.
Mississippi has highest childhood vaccination rates in country - Mississippi Business Journal

Mississippi also has the highest infant mortality rate.
Stats of the States - Infant Mortality

Edit -
Ironically the Unhealthiest State(Mississippi) in America Has the Best Vaccination Rate

The Unhealthiest State in America Has the Best Vaccination Rate: Offit’s Orwellian Logic Fails to Connect the Dots • Children's Health Defense

Of course, Mississippi is one of the poorest states in the nation and there are many factors associated with poverty and infant mortality. It might be that mortality would be higher if not for the vaccination record.

Is it an epidemic or is it a case where physicians are increasingly more capable of identifying the condition of autism? Again, there are many potential factors that could be triggering autism, though it appears to have a strong genetic component involved. At this point, there is no evidence that vaccines cause or are associated with triggering autism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Wow...

Parents Face Fines, Jail Time for Failure to Immunize

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My daughter and granddaughter both got whooping cough even though both were immunized......do you think that they would have been less infectious to others just because they had had their shots?

That is incredibly unfortunate. Knowing two people of different ages that, I am guessing, were immunized at different times from different sources both getting a rare disease is very bad luck. Outside of my mother having it in the 1940's, I have never met anyone with whooping cough or that has had it. I am glad to hear that your family came through it all right.

I do not think that an immunization that did not take would make a person more infectious. That would depend on the strain of the disease and the growth among other factors. We are talking about communicable diseases here.

Both my mother and my husband had extremely bad reactions to the flu shots.....my mother almost died. She was told never to have one again. Do you know how many strains of flu there are? You cannot possibly be immunized for all of them.

Again, I have not met anyone that has had a bad reaction to flu shots, though in the case of flu shots, I have heard stories second hand.

No one is claiming that attempts are being made to immunize against all the possible strains. Why do you bring that up?

I never said they didn't.

You certainly implied it.

All I said was that we need more investigation into the safety of multiple vaccinations given to very young children and what is in them.

They are tested. I wonder if you really would accept more testing if the results indicate that they were as safe as they could be made to be or would you just keep demanding more testing. If there are ways to improve on vaccine safety, no one is going to suggest that they not be examined. But it is not like these issues are being ignored either.

Would you rather ignore the evidence that vaccines have caused harm to so many children?

I am aware that vaccines have risks. I believe I have mentioned that a few times. Are you implying that I am some kind of monster that hates children, because I want to protect them from easily dealt with childhood disease? I think that anything that improves the safety of a product should be examined for application where possible.

If there was no harm, then why have a Vaccine Injury Compensation Scheme?

Again, I have not said there is no harm. Are you sure you are responding to the correct poster?

Why pay out over 4 billion dollars if these children were not damaged?

Once again, I do not deny that there are risks to this. There are risks to everything. There is a risk of doing nothing. In the case of these communicable diseases, doing nothing could be the potential for outbreaks and even pandemics. Lots of children could die or be disabled.

Can any amount of money compensate a person for losing their life or their physical and mental abilities?

I am not sure how you compensate someone that has lost their life.

What would you suggest then? Stop producing and using vaccines to quell the fears of people that demand unreasonable conditions to every act of life and just tell the parents of children dead from disease to suck it up?

Apart from the figures I provided, you are misinterpreting what I said. I am not against vaccinations per se....I am against giving tiny babies more viruses than their immune systems can handle all at once. I am asking that the ingredients (both biological and those used as preservatives) used in these vaccinations be thoroughly tested. Is that too much to ask?

What is your evidence behind your demands? Why do you think none of these things are tested?

You see, if we were giving them single dose vaccinations, we could easily see which ones if any were causing a problem. And if we gave them single dose vaccinations and the rates of autism went down, we would have a case against the MMR vaccine.

There is no study to date linking autism with vaccination.

How many people do you know that ever got measles, mumps and rubella all at once?

None, since those diseases were taken care of by vaccines until people starting believing the sky was falling and stopped letting their children be vaccinated. I would say the odds of my meeting someone that has had one of those illnesses has gone up a lot.

I am for safety, not in trusting big, money-hungry corporations with the health and safety of my children just so that they can make a fortune at the expense of the few who are disabled for life or even killed by a parent's attempt to safeguard them when these big corporations couldn't care less. Just pay the victims to shut them up.

I suppose you consider that I am not for safety, because I support the use of vaccines. That would be untrue. I am also realistic and recognize that things in life have risks.

I must admit that in my reading, I have discovered that the market has changed since the mid-1980's and vaccines are becoming more and more profitable. They are still only a small fraction of annual drug sales, but still very profitable. This, by itself is not evidence of any wrongdoing or means the quality of vaccines is bad.

My trust is not in companies, but in the research. Right now, I do not see any research that would tell me vaccines are more risky that illness that they prevent. I do not see any research that supports that they cause autism. What am I supposed to do? Should I ignore the research that you are demanding and just arbitrarily rise up against them?

It is easy to randomly lay blame on big companies. They are a great scapegoat for this sort of conspiracy allusion that does not require evidence, but cranks up the emotions of people to jump on the bandwagon. Everybody wants easy answers. There are areas of the pharmaceutical industry that could use fixing. There are areas of the healthcare system that could use fixing. Neither of those two points is evidence that vaccines are so dangerous that we should just risk disease instead.

Is that good enough?

This is Dr Theresa Deisher, an expert on vaccination safety.

We need more research......honest research.

I am all for research. But if the research keeps saying no connection between vaccines and autism are you going to finally accept those conclusions or just keep demanding more research?

 

[Deeje]

I did happen to ask my grandfather about this stuff once. He didn't have access to vaccines growing up in the 1920s in rural Canada. Turns out, his baby brother died from diphtheria before he turned one year old.
My grandfather thought people should get vaccinated.

Diphtheria was NOT one of the childhood diseases for which mothers attempted to deliberately infect their young children. I was speaking about measles, mumps and rubella. Diphtheria was a killer that ran in epidemics and sometimes wiped out whole families, especially at a time when poverty was rife, resulting in poor nutrition and low resistance to infection, especially in winter. Vaccination in that case helped in later years. But again Diphtheria vaccination was given in conjunction with Tetanus and Whooping Cough. Who do we know that has ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus and Whooping Cough all at the same time? That is a lot for a child's immune system to deal with.

There are quite a few diseases that have been dealt with effectively through vaccination.....smallpox and polio for example. But that does not mean that all vaccinations available today are safe or effective. More research needs to be done....especially if you take into account the rates of autism in unvaccinated children. Where are those stats?

You can thank vaccines for that.

Not at that time. Only a few were available back in those days....and we never even heard of autism. These days everyone knows someone with an autistic child. Someone with measles who dies of a complication, makes headlines. Scare tactics work....emotional manipulation is powerful via carefully crafted propaganda.

There is no link between vaccines and autism. None. At. All. Yet another massive study has just confirmed this. Again.
Yet Another Study Finds No Link Between Measles Vaccine and Autism | Smart News | Smithsonian

....who is doing the studies? This is the fox guarding the hen house.

Here is the other side of that story...

Let’s Go Find Unvaccinated Children with Autism

Presently, 1 in 59 children in the US has some form of autism. Something is causing it. If alternative studies are finding that unvaccinated children have a very low rate of autism, then we should have options based on what we believe to be true. I am against forcing people to be vaccinated...or even guilt tripping them into it, when the "studies" have been a bit of a fraud in some cases.....based on vested financial interests.

Our choice should be an informed one....not based on one side of this issue presented to people as the only truth. Safety for all children should come first. Independent research is the only one without an agenda.

I have very good reasons for not trusting in big corporations whose only concern is profit. Corruption is everywhere.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Diphtheria was NOT one of the childhood diseases for which mothers attempted to deliberately infect their young children. I was speaking about measles, mumps and rubella. Diphtheria was a killer that ran in epidemics and sometimes wiped out whole families, especially at a time when poverty was rife, resulting in poor nutrition and low resistance to infection, especially in winter. Vaccination in that case helped in later years. But again Diphtheria vaccination was given in conjunction with Tetanus and Whooping Cough. Who do we know that has ever had Diphtheria, Tetanus and Whooping Cough all at the same time? That is a lot for a child's immune system to deal with.

There are quite a few diseases that have been dealt with effectively through vaccination.....smallpox and polio for example. But that does not mean that all vaccinations available today are safe or effective. More research needs to be done....especially if you take into account the rates of autism in unvaccinated children. Where are those stats?



Not at that time. Only a few were available back in those days....and we never even heard of autism. These days everyone knows someone with an autistic child. Someone with measles who dies of a complication, makes headlines. Scare tactics work....emotional manipulation is powerful via carefully crafted propaganda.



....who is doing the studies? This is the fox guarding the hen house.

Here is the other side of that story...

Let’s Go Find Unvaccinated Children with Autism

Presently, 1 in 59 children in the US has some form of autism. Something is causing it. If alternative studies are finding that unvaccinated children have a very low rate of autism, then we should have options based on what we believe to be true. I am against forcing people to be vaccinated...or even guilt tripping them into it, when the "studies" have been a bit of a fraud in some cases.....based on vested financial interests.

Our choice should be an informed one....not based on one side of this issue presented to people as the only truth. Safety for all children should come first. Independent research is the only one without an agenda.

I have very good reasons for not trusting in big corporations whose only concern is profit. Corruption is everywhere.

Too bad @Deeje still has me on ignore. I would gladly correct her on that lie that she bought into about autism and vaccinations. One study, and that one was by a person that had a monetary interest in his claim, found a connection and it was refuted a long long time ago. How do such lies last so long in the public mythos?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Are you saying that because most FGM is more extensive, then circumcision is not mutilation? If that is so, then one only need to find a more extensive form of mutilation to compare FGM to and it would no longer be mutilation either.

I am saying that because FGM destroys a natural body function, it is mutilation, and because circumcision does not destroy a natural body function, it is not mutilation.

I have repeated this quite often in this thread.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yeah, it's part of the genitalia, like I said. You said it wasn't.

Your hair is part of you too, and your nails, but you cut them all the time. I also cut off calluses.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Western culture hasn't cut anything off my body without my consent. There's nothing hypocritical about my position against cutting off pieces of infant's genitalia.
Your comparison of genital mutilation to laws against workplace discrimination is absolutely ridiculous.

You didn't respond to what I wrote about imposing things on people for their own good.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And God is incapable of making the penises of this 0.02% meet his standard without your intervention?

All sorts of things are coded for in DNA. Why do you think he didn't created some "foreskin gene" and turn it off for Jews and on for everyone else?

I really don't think you can't understand this.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Okay. Not sure how that changes (or answers) the question.
Do I seriously have to narrow my question here? Do you not understand it? I hope you're not being intentionally obtuse.

I really don't think you can't understand this.

 

[We Never Know]

Too bad @Deeje still has me on ignore. I would gladly correct her on that lie that she bought into about autism and vaccinations. One study, and that one was by a person that had a monetary interest in his claim, found a connection and it was refuted a long long time ago. How do such lies last so long in the public mythos?

I agree all studies say autism and vaccines aren't linked and if that's the evidence presented to us, why should we think any different.

The U.S. administers more vaccines than any other developed country, the U.S. has a higher rate of autism than any developed country. Let's call that a coincidence because the evidence shows different.

The flip scenario. What if they are connected and the public told? What would happen?
1. Lawsuits throughout the world.
2. People throughout the world would stop vaccinating their children.
3. Desease throughout the world would rise.
4. Epidemics would happen throughout the world.
5. Panic would ensue throughout the world.
6. Death rates would rise throughout the world.

And that's just the tip of it. Let's say we are being sheltered from what might be true to avoid all the above and the cost is a few thousand autism cases annually. It's a good trade off.

We our the public and they hide truths and other things from us like eggs on easter.

I think if the government and science knew a meteor was going to hit earth in 21 days and wipe out 95% of life, they wouldn't tell us just to avoid the world wide panic and craziness.

I'm not saying any of the above is true but any of it is possible.

 

[We Never Know]

According to what I have been reading, during the 80's most manufacturers had gotten out of the vaccine market, but today, thanks to advances in vaccines, increased safety and demand, it is becoming very profitable.

The argument that we cannot trust people that make profit is a weak argument, without evidence that something is actually going on. It is guilt by association and not evidence that vaccines are harmful.

And 1980 was right at 40 years ago. Things have changed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree all studies say autism and vaccines aren't linked and if that's the evidence presented to us, why should we think any different.

The U.S. administers more vaccines than any other developed country, the U.S. has a higher rate of autism than any developed country. Let's call that a coincidence because the evidence shows different.

The flip scenario. What if they are connected and the public told? What would happen?
1. Lawsuits throughout the world.
2. People throughout the world would stop vaccinating their children.
3. Desease throughout the world would rise.
4. Epidemics would happen throughout the world.
5. Panic would ensue throughout the world.
6. Death rates would rise throughout the world.

And that's just the tip of it. Let's say we are being sheltered from what might be true to avoid all the above and the cost is a few thousand autism cases annually. It's a good trade off.

We our the public and they hide truths and other things from us like eggs on easter.

I think if the government and science knew a meteor was going to hit earth in 21 days and wipe out 95% of life, they wouldn't tell us just to avoid the world wide panic and craziness.

I'm not saying any of the above is true but any of it is possible.

Any support for your claims. That the U.S. vaccinates more than any other country for one. That we have a higher rate of autism. Comparing autism rates is extremely difficult because there is no international standard on what autism is.

Support your claims and then I will gladly support mine.

 

[We Never Know]

Any support for your claims. That the U.S. vaccinates more than any other country for one. That we have a higher rate of autism. Comparing autism rates is extremely difficult because there is no international standard on what autism is.

Support your claims and then I will gladly support mine.

See post 340 or use Google.

 

[We Never Know]

Any support for your claims. That the U.S. vaccinates more than any other country for one. That we have a higher rate of autism. Comparing autism rates is extremely difficult because there is no international standard on what autism is.

Support your claims and then I will gladly support mine.

And be sure you read my post right. I posted "The U.S. administers more vaccines than any other developed country

 

[Subduction Zone]

See post 340 or use Google.

Do you have a reliable source?

 

[Subduction Zone]

And be sure you read my post right. I posted "The U.S. administers more vaccines than any other developed country

I would not think that the undeveloped world would have nearly as many vaccinations.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Meanwhile I Google searched "vaccinations and autism" and then went to scholarly article. The first one listed:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673699012398

For measles, mumps, and rubella, no evidence of casual association.