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Vaccinations and Religious Exemptions

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
As do Mexican who pierce their baby girls' ears. Many folks object to that also. I say, stay out of it.
Ear piercing is reversible, but I don't think people should pierce their babies' ears either. Though it's not as terrible as cutting off pieces of a baby's body.


You are being imperialistic and athropocentric.
I'm being a person who respects the rights of individuals to make their own decisions about which body parts to cut off for themselves.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Ear piercing is reversible, but I don't think people should pierce their babies' ears either. Though it's not as terrible as cutting off pieces of a baby's body.



I'm being a person who respects the rights of individuals to make their own decisions about which body parts to cut off for themselves.
When Mexican parents pierce their infant daughter's ears, it doesn't get reversed. Pierced ears are part of Mexican culture. It's not questioned. What you are refusing to acknowledge is that parents routinely make decisions for children. All the time. Constantly.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
When Mexican parents pierce their infant daughter's ears, it doesn't get reversed. Pierced ears are part of Mexican culture. It's not questioned. What you are refusing to acknowledge is that parents routinely make decisions for children. All the time. Constantly.
And when those decisions are necessary or clearly in the child's best interest, that's fine.

Parents aren't owners of their children; they're stewards. Parents are granted the authority to protect their child's rights and interests based on the assumption that they will do so in accordance with the child's best interests.

When a parent works against their child's interests or to deprive them of rights - e.g. by attempting to irrevocably steer them into a particular religion, the assumption that the parent is acting in the child's best interests has been shown to not be well-founded.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
When Mexican parents pierce their infant daughter's ears, it doesn't get reversed. Pierced ears are part of Mexican culture. It's not questioned. What you are refusing to acknowledge is that parents routinely make decisions for children. All the time. Constantly.
Ear piercing is reversible. Leave your earrings out for a couple of months and the holes will close up.

Like I said, I don't agree with piercing a baby's ears, but to compare that to cutting off pieces of an infant's body is ludicrous, in my opinion.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
And when those decisions are necessary or clearly in the child's best interest, that's fine.

Parents aren't owners of their children; they're stewards. Parents are granted the authority to protect their child's rights and interests based on the assumption that they will do so in accordance with the child's best interests.

When a parent works against their child's interests or to deprive them of rights - e.g. by attempting to irrevocably steer them into a particular religion, the assumption that the parent is acting in the child's best interests has been shown to not be well-founded.
That is such nonsense. Being raised in a religion has been shown to be abundantly helpful to a child. It helps in so many different ways. For example, teens are much less likely to commit suicide. Another example is that in religious groups, co-parenting, including by members who have no children, is much higher than in secular populations, which gives children a much more loving, stable, healthy upbringing than isolated parenting.

Suicide:
Parents' spirituality or religion tied to lower suicide risk in kids - Reuters
Judaism can protect against suicide: Israeli study

Better behaved and well adjusted. This may be directly due to the pro-family, pro-parenting support system in the community described below.
Study: Religion is Good for Kids

Better parenting support: in religious communities, extended families reach out to support young parents in both practical ways and with advice, especially unmarried members. This also extends to members of the faith community who are not relatives.
I couldn't find the link, but I read this about three weeks ago.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Ear piercing is reversible. Leave your earrings out for a couple of months and the holes will close up.

Like I said, I don't agree with piercing a baby's ears, but to compare that to cutting off pieces of an infant's body is ludicrous, in my opinion.
It DOESN'T MATTER that ear piercing is reversible. The culture is that you don't reverse it. It's dictated. Done. Fin. Stop fighting the fact that cultures determine these things.

It doesn't matter that you are opposed to piercing baby's ears. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
 

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
That is such nonsense. Being raised in a religion has been shown to be abundantly helpful to a child. It helps in so many different ways. For example, teens are much less likely to commit suicide. Another example is that in religious groups, co-parenting, including by members who have no children, is much higher than in secular populations, which gives children a much more loving, stable, healthy upbringing than isolated parenting.

Suicide:
Parents' spirituality or religion tied to lower suicide risk in kids - Reuters
Judaism can protect against suicide: Israeli study

Better behaved and well adjusted. This may be directly due to the pro-family, pro-parenting support system in the community described below.
Study: Religion is Good for Kids

Better parenting support: in religious communities, extended families reach out to support young parents in both practical ways and with advice, especially unmarried members. This also extends to members of the faith community who are not relatives.
I couldn't find the link, but I read this about three weeks ago.
They're also approximately 100% more likely to become intolerant bigots.
All in all, not a very good trade.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
It DOESN'T MATTER that ear piercing is reversible. The culture is that you don't reverse it. It's dictated. Done. Fin. Stop fighting the fact that cultures determine these things.

It doesn't matter that you are opposed to piercing baby's ears. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
YES IT DOES. If the child grows up and wants to reverse it, they can. With circumcision, they can't do that. HUGE difference.

Sorry, despite the caps lock, I still think your comparison is ludicrous, and you've said nothing here that changes that.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
It DOESN'T MATTER that ear piercing is reversible. The culture is that you don't reverse it. It's dictated. Done. Fin. Stop fighting the fact that cultures determine these things.

It doesn't matter that you are opposed to piercing baby's ears. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Yes, it is. When parents harm their children, it *is* the business of others.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
YES IT DOES. If the child grows up and wants to reverse it, they can. With circumcision, they can't do that. HUGE difference.

Sorry, despite the caps lock, I still think your comparison is ludicrous, and you've said nothing here that changes that.
They are not going to reverse their piercings as adults. Not going to happen. Culture rules.

Culture rules.

Culture rules.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Being raised in a *community* is helpful for a child. The main effect of religion is to provide a community.
While there are certainly good effects from being in a community, all the scientific research has so far documented the positive effects specifically from *religious* communities.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
They are not going to reverse their piercings as adults. Not going to happen. Culture rules.

Culture rules.

Culture rules.

Why? More importantly, why should it? Shouldn't the person be given the opportunity to choose which culture they identify with rather than forcing it from infancy?
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
So which of those diseases do you think children should have?
One of the most irresponsible and nonsensical notions I have heard on this thread is from people claiming that vaccines need more testing, because of risk, while suggesting that exposing healthy children to risky disease is safe, sensible and cost effective. Even some of the less serious childhood diseases have a risk of causing death. Certainly, the children that this was done to do not see it has no cost. Then there is the cost of taking care of a sick child too.

To me, this underscores the absence of critical thinking, understanding and common sense exercised by the anti-vaccine crowd.

That said, I do not think he was advocating the removal of some or any of the vaccines currently being administered. I think he was just reporting the statistics he found.
 
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