Various religious views on evolution

[firedragon]

Atheist Hindu is one who goes by 'Dharma' (Duties), but does not accept the existence of any God or Goddess, soul, heaven, hell, rebirth, etc.

Dharma means "duties"? When did that happen?

 

[Aupmanyav]

It does not matter to me as an atheist, but it does matter to me as one interested in Aryan history. My grandpa was a well-known historian, that is why my interest in History. Actually, I had joined the master's course in History, but fate took me elsewhere.
Bishweshwar Nath Reu - Wikipedia

There is no direct evidence for many things, but indications are there. in 4,000 BCE, Aryans called the asterism of Orion as "Prajapati", because the sun rose in that constellation for the first time after the two-month long Arctic night (Indo-Europeans lived within the Arctic Circle at that time. That was their original homeland) on the day of vernal equinox. That is still the new Year day for Zoroastrians and for many Hindus, including my community, the Kashmiri brahmins - Nawruz (New Years Day). That is why the 'Gathas' of Zoroatrians mention a flood by ice.

When Charvaks, Budhists and Jains rose against the rituals of Indo-Aryans, I think by that time RigVeda had acquired its final shape. That would mean that it happened before 500 BCE. And It must have taken some time for the Aryan influence to reach from their first stop, the Saraswati valley, to where Buddha and Mahavira preached (i.e., Bihar)IMHO, RigVeda must have been completed around 1,000 BCE.

Lastly, the philosophy of Samkhya, the atomic theory of Vaisheshika, I date them before the Christian era - not that they had appeared in written form, because we had a tradition of oral transmission before that.

 

[Secret Chief]

Dharma means "duties"? When did that happen?

I think it has various meanings.

"Dharma in Hinduism centers around laws, virtues, duties, rights, and the proper way of living."

- Dharma Definition & Examples | What Is Dharma in Hinduism? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

 

[firedragon]

I think it has various meanings.

"Dharma in Hinduism centers around laws, virtues, duties, rights, and the proper way of living."

- Dharma Definition & Examples | What Is Dharma in Hinduism? - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Dharma means "way". Everything else is peripheral meanings and can go on. It would depend on the sentence. There is no one meaning and for someone to make claims it means duties is pretty strange. Not like the English meaning of "Widhi" but as in "philosophy".

I remember Bruce Lee's "Stop hit way". Jeet Kune Do. Tao is Way and Philosophy. This is my philosophy, this is my way, both are the same. Dharma.

So My way of life could be performing duties. My way of life can be duty bound. that does not mean Dharma means duties. It's a wannabe rendition to suit an atheists agenda to make an atheistic religion out of Hinduism.

Thath mama Dharma.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Dharma means "duties"? When did that happen?

See towards the end of the page, click to show all meanings. It was always that. It never meant religion. 'The way' is known as 'Pantha', and opinion is known as 'mata':
Sanskrit - Dictionary

धर्म m. dharma customary observance or prescribed conduct
धर्मन् n. dharman duty
धर्मन् n.dharman custom
धर्मज्ञ adj. dharmajna knowing the law or what is right
धर्मविद् adj. dharmavid knowing the law or duty
धर्मकृत् adj. dharmakRt doing one's duty
धर्मतस् ind. dharmatas according to law or rule
धर्मवत् adj. dharmavat accompanied by dharman or the law
Etc. I think that should be enough. Otherwise I can provide you more examples.

And this should finally convince you:
Dharma (Pali: dhamma) is a key concept with multiple meanings in Indian religions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism and others. Although there is no direct single-word translation for dharma in European languages, it is commonly translated as "righteousness", "merit" or "religious and moral duties" governing individual conduct.
Dharma - Wikipedia

 

[firedragon]

See towards the end of the page, click to show all meanings. It was always that. It never meant religion:
Sanskrit - Dictionary

धर्म m. dharma customary observance or prescribed conduct
धर्मन् n. dharman duty
धर्मन् n.dharman custom
धर्मज्ञ adj. dharmajna knowing the law or what is right
धर्मविद् adj. dharmavid knowing the law or duty
धर्मकृत् adj. dharmakRt doing one's duty
धर्मतस् ind. dharmatas according to law or rule
धर्मवत् adj. dharmavat accompanied by dharman or the law
Etc. I think that should be enough.

Thanks for a cut and paste. It's a great job to cut and paste things. Super.

But Aup, Dharma does not mean duties. What is Duties in Sanskrit? Since you like to spiritualise Sanskrit and make it your religious language of your religion "Atheism that believes in an unscientific Dharma", lets discuss your divine language.

Mate. What is Karthavyam if Dharma means duties? And you proved it by cutting and pasting a list. If Dharma means duties then if you use it on it's own, it should just mean duties. So does every point in your cut and paste say "duties"? Does Thath Mama Dharma mean this is my duty? What if I say dhanthamarjunam mama dharma?

Please Aup. Don't make a mockery out of your own tradition. It's not good.

 

[exchemist]

Magma the origin of dogs?

Only partially, I think. There are also light elements in dogs that more likely came, at least in part, from the ice in comets than from magma in the early earth.Origin of water on Earth - Wikipedia
And the process of dog formation also involved light at some stage, too, providing food for the ancestors of dogs So various forms of matter plus radiation.

 

[F1fan]

The Bible speaks more in terms of the evolution of human consciousness, than about biological evolution. Biology is more concerned with the shell and bones of the body, than with the operating system of the human brain.

How does consciousness evolve?

I suspect you are confusing the evolution of culture, language, religion, meaning, and even technology with consciousness here.

You cannot get the operating system from bones or DNA, alone. How would you explain all the humans in earth, all with human DNA, not all being mentally uniform? Primate people have human DNA, so that alone is not enough information, since the mind also includes external sensory input that will occur apart from any DNA. The analogy is we can all buy the same computer, but it will change as we add software from outside venders.

You don't have a solid grasp of biology, DNA, or science in general.

The first successful and sustainable civilization would have been more related a new level of human consciousness and creativity, than to just to the shells of biology. In that sense modern human is not just about DNA, but also the point in time where a specific level of neural sophistication occurs needed to create and sustain the artificial environment connected to civilization. The timing of this conscious change, needed for civilization, is much more consistent with the biblical time scales of 6000 years, than with the 1.5 million year shell time scales of human DNA and biology. The atheists poisoned the well, while casino math and black box of statistics used by shell evolution, made it harder to reason away or filter out the poison.

None of this is informed by exerts in science. And you reveal a heavy religious bias against science.

The Genesis type theories of all the various religions were some of the first applications of this new human mind set. They attempted to explain the universe. This attempt was the key to change. When I was a child, Pluto was a planet. More recently its status changed. Pluto did not change. What changed was how consciousness wished to catalog it.

You ARE confusing consciousness with different, more specific brain functions. Scientists learned more about pluto due to better technology and decided it did not fit the definition for planet. That brain function is reason and consideration which conscious brains make, but it isn't consciousness itself. Consciousness is a state of being, a brain state.

Adam is formed from the dust of the earth and not by biological means.

That's why the creation myths aren't literal.

The early pre-humans were herders and knew about biological reproduction. Yet Adam, who symbolized a new mindset, was specifically formed, as not being based on biological reproduction, alone. The operating system of the brain is also a function of sensory input that has nothing to do with our specific DNA. It comes from all aspects of our inner and outer reality.

Adam evolved based on a tool and self reflection. The invention of written language coincides with the 6000 year bible estimate of the dawn of modern man. Adam was a new type of human who was not based on biology alone. He was impacted by this external invention; writing on stone tablets making stone dust as Adam learned to write and self reflect.

Unlike spoken language, which is often spontaneous and unconscious; mouth can work faster than the mind, written language is more deliberate and requires self reflection to organize and refine your ideas and then edit language. This type of mind set was far more advanced, and could not have occurred without than important invention from the Gods; creative forces. God forms Adam's new mind from the stone dust of the earth. In tradition, Adam was a mathematician and scientist; applied writing. Today, computers have changed the way humans react to sensory reality. Now many avoid natural for virtual. The impact is leading people more into their own minds.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was about an application of the new invention. When right and wrong were written down, law came into the world. The problem was that law, written down and carved into stone, could not change on a dime; holy books, and would often became repressive leading to unconscious problems; repression, compulsions and suffering. Writing was positive force for science, engineering, religion and commerce all of which help sustain civilization. But law was too subjective and would lead to irrationality; Satan.

The ancient people of Genesis lived at that transitional time between natural and civilized. Their ability to observed and self reflect allowed them to see how the human mind changed and evolved. God was considered natural, while fallen man and Satan was more about artificial. These distinctions are less clear cut today, since all we ever knew was artificial. In that sense, ancient religious works connects us to the past and the future. Paradise is predicted to return, but with new sophistication.

Your views here are trying to mix science and religious lore, and that just doesn't work as a coherent and true description of reality.

 

[Secret Chief]

Dharma means "way". Everything else is peripheral meanings and can go on. It would depend on the sentence. There is no one meaning and for someone to make claims it means duties is pretty strange. Not like the English meaning of "Widhi" but as in "philosophy".

I remember Bruce Lee's "Stop hit way". Jeet Kune Do. Tao is Way and Philosophy. This is my philosophy, this is my way, both are the same. Dharma.

So My way of life could be performing duties. My way of life can be duty bound. that does not mean Dharma means duties. It's a wannabe rendition to suit an atheists agenda to make an atheistic religion out of Hinduism.

Thath mama Dharma.

My post was well meant, must remember not to bother. It has various meanings in Buddhism too but no doubt you could correct me on that.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mate. What is Karthavyam if Dharma means duties? And you proved it by cutting and pasting a list. If Dharma means duties then if you use it on it's own, it should just mean duties. So does every point in your cut and paste say "duties"? Does Thath Mama Dharma mean this is my duty? What if I say dhanthamarjunam mama dharma?
Please Aup. Don't make a mockery out of your own tradition. It's not good.

Kartavya is what one should do.
See 'Kartavya' here: Sanskrit - Dictionary
FYI, check 'resources' on the page. It has links to other Sanskrit dictionaries. You can check in them also.
Can a word not have an equivalent? What is wrong in having two or more words for one thing. That is what is known as synonyms.
'Mama dharmam' and 'Mama kartavyam' has the same meaning, my duty and what I should do. 'Kartavya' is more individualistic than Dharma. Check with any person knowing Sanskrit around your place.
Allah knows ("ya’lamhul laah" - al-Quran al-Kareem) I am very serious about it. I do not make fun of these things, dead serious.

 

[firedragon]

My post was well meant, must remember not to bother. It has various meanings in Buddhism too but no doubt you could correct me on that.

Brother. What does Abidhamma mean? Deep duties? Really?

I understand that you mean well. Don't take offence at this but I value these traditions a lot. I value Buddhism and Hinduism a hell of a lot. One person does not have to follow a religion or a tradition to value it. I'm sorry but we should not murder these traditions by twisting them to suit our personal needs as and when we please just because the general audience is ignorant. Hope you understand.

In Buddhism, Abhi means deep. In simple terms. Dhamma (In Pali) means philosophy, not "Duties". So the word Dhamma will mean different things depending on the sentence, but it means philosophy or way in simple, basic language. What does Karma mean? What does Kamma mean in Pali? It means work, or if you use it with a qualifier like Abhi or Pari it will mean duties. As in Parikamma will mean minor duties. Abikamma will mean deep duties. Kamma fundamentally means work/duties. Simple. I don't have to be a Buddhist not to value it enough to murder Buddhism and the language also. Lets say Kuddaka means duties. It's actually like "rules". But it also means duties. It's used as in "a set of rules you follow". Not like Law, but minor set of rules you follow in your school, office or your home. These are duties. This is how the language works, and it's in Buddhism.

Cheers.

 

[YoursTrue]

Spirit? One may not believe in spirits, and replace the word with mind. Yeah, I too believe so.

I mean what motivates you, not necessarily an outside spirit or another 'person.' but you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Brother. What does Abidhamma mean? Deep duties? Really?

I understand that you mean well. Don't take offence at this but I value these traditions a lot. I value Buddhism and Hinduism a hell of a lot. One person does not have to follow a religion or a tradition to value it. I'm sorry but we should not murder these traditions by twisting them to suit our personal needs as and when we please just because the general audience is ignorant. Hope you understand.

In Buddhism, Abhi means deep. In simple terms. Dhamma (In Pali) means philosophy, not "Duties". So the word Dhamma will mean different things depending on the sentence, but it means philosophy or way in simple, basic language. What does Karma mean? What does Kamma mean in Pali? It means work, or if you use it with a qualifier like Abhi or Pari it will mean duties. As in Parikamma will mean minor duties. Abikamma will mean deep duties. Kamma fundamentally means work/duties. Simple. I don't have to be a Buddhist not to value it enough to murder Buddhism and the language also. Lets say Kuddaka means duties. It's actually like "rules". But it also means duties. It's used as in "a set of rules you follow". Not like Law, but minor set of rules you follow in your school, office or your home. These are duties. This is how the language works, and it's in Buddhism.

Cheers.

Well, it's interesting. When I went to school, the teacher said, "Do it this way," and sometimes offered distinct help in learning how to do it (whatever it was, let's take handwriting as one example).

 

[YoursTrue]

Kartavya is what one should do.
See 'Kartavya' here: Sanskrit - Dictionary
FYI, check 'resources' on the page. It has links to other Sanskrit dictionaries. You can check in them also.
Can a word not have an equivalent? What is wrong in having two or more words for one thing. That is what is known as synonyms.
'Mama dharmam' and 'Mama kartavyam' has the same meaning, my duty and what I should do. 'Kartavya' is more individualistic than Dharma. Check with any person knowing Sanskrit around your place.
Allah knows I am very serious about it. I do not make fun of these things, dead serious.

View attachment 65053

I mean--where or what are your guidelines as to what you consider as righteous?

 

[YoursTrue]

Only partially, I think. There are also light elements in dogs that more likely came, at least in part, from the ice in comets than from magma in the early earth.Origin of water on Earth - Wikipedia
And the process of dog formation also involved light at some stage, too, providing food for the ancestors of dogs So various forms of matter plus radiation.

Do evolutionists consider radiation and light rays as part of the process of evolution? It may be so that radiation can affect transference of genetics, but never heard that so far. But anyway, yes, as usual, there are to my mind some weird things explained by religion and/or 'scientists.' But thanks for offering.

 

[YoursTrue]

Spirit? One may not believe in spirits, and replace the word with mind. Yeah, I too believe so.

OK, I understand that, thanks. Yes, when I said spirit I meant a motivating force within your mind (and heart, I suppose). My spirit -- (mind and heart) tells me that (1) there is something far greater in person than myself, and (2) that what I see around me was created or made by someone.

 

[sun rise]

I've posted this chart before, but since the question is asked again, my answer remains. This chart in Meher Baba's book, God Speaks, shows the central role of evolution.

 

[firedragon]

Kartavya is what one should do.

Duties = What one should do.

Pretty hilarious Aup. Did you just find some website after a quick google? You just said what I said. Karthavya means duties (what one should do.

Sorry I had to chuckle a bit because you said that as if it's some profound finding and it defies what I said.

FYI, check 'resources' on the page. It has links to other Sanskrit dictionaries. You can check in them also.

Don't worry about that Aup. Thanks for the info anyway to links to dictionaries anyone could find. Important.

Can a word not have an equivalent?

Are you saying Dharma is equivalent to Karthavya? Are you serious? Aup. Karthavya means duty. As you said above "what you have to do". Dharma means philosophy. It's different. If you use it in a particular sentence it could mean duty depending on a particular constructed context. That is it. But Dharma is not duties. Your duties can be your Dharma. That's a whole different usage altogether.

Anyway Aup. This is your country, your tradition, your values so you should respect it. I beg you to not make such a mockery of it. I am gonna stop replying to you on this because that's exactly what you are doing.

See you Aup. Mama Karmanthe Dharman asthi.

 

[firedragon]

Well, it's interesting. When I went to school, the teacher said, "Do it this way," and sometimes offered distinct help in learning how to do it (whatever it was, let's take handwriting as one example).

That would be more like marg or patha in Sanskrit.

 

[Secret Chief]

Brother. What does Abidhamma mean? Deep duties? Really?

I understand that you mean well. Don't take offence at this but I value these traditions a lot. I value Buddhism and Hinduism a hell of a lot. One person does not have to follow a religion or a tradition to value it. I'm sorry but we should not murder these traditions by twisting them to suit our personal needs as and when we please just because the general audience is ignorant. Hope you understand.

In Buddhism, Abhi means deep. In simple terms. Dhamma (In Pali) means philosophy, not "Duties". So the word Dhamma will mean different things depending on the sentence, but it means philosophy or way in simple, basic language. What does Karma mean? What does Kamma mean in Pali? It means work, or if you use it with a qualifier like Abhi or Pari it will mean duties. As in Parikamma will mean minor duties. Abikamma will mean deep duties. Kamma fundamentally means work/duties. Simple. I don't have to be a Buddhist not to value it enough to murder Buddhism and the language also. Lets say Kuddaka means duties. It's actually like "rules". But it also means duties. It's used as in "a set of rules you follow". Not like Law, but minor set of rules you follow in your school, office or your home. These are duties. This is how the language works, and it's in Buddhism.

Cheers.

I'm not offended. We could go down rabbit holes with these words and never come out!
I have long since understood that the word can mean duty in Hinduism (not as part of any atheist agenda) so the link I provided was literally the first one listed.

As to the meanings of dhamma/dharma and kamma/karma within Buddhism, I'm not even going to go there!

Cheers.