Vatican Blasts Trans Surgery, Surogacy, Etc

[pearl]

I go by the science regardless of what the Church teaches on this, which is a right all Catholics have.

As usual there is always something deeper than what appears on the surface.

"For the church, questions about the morality of surrogacy transcend issues of market regulation, citizenship and parental authority claims. On April 8 in its declaration “Dignitas Infinita,” the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith outlined a definitive position on surrogacy, including it among a host of contemporary social and geopolitical concerns that offend the church’s understanding of human dignity."

The Vatican’s moral objection to the global surrogacy industry

The global surrogacy market, valued at $14 billion in 2022, is projected to reach $129 billion by 2032. That’s a lot of bucks and a lot of babies and a lot of young women renting their bodies to other people.

www.americamagazine.org

Its seems to be more the consumerism of it than anything else.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

From what I see puberty blockers tend to keep people in a state of confusion about their gender.

Amd you're an uneducated layman. You don't have a background in psych or medicine. You're not trans, you've not treated anyone who is. You've not assisted with or conducted the research and you didn't write the reports.
What you see is so clearly biased you refer to it as confusion, which isn't clinically used to describe gender dysphoria, being transgender, transsexual, transvestite, crossdresser, drag queen, none of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've been going to the same parish with my wife for almost 50 years [August], and I have never heard a priest, nor a deacon, put it in those terms. Instead, the emphasis is being "saved". Neither have I heard or read a pope saying it that way.

BTW, I have no belief one way or another in heaven nor hell.

I've not heard them put it in those terms other. They usually try to gloss over it by calling it love. But it doesn't change the underlying message, that we need saved, and what we need saved from is the wrath of the don who started this whole mess but tries nevertheless the pass it off as being your choice as to what happens next.

 

[Alien826]

Dude, I used to be Catholic and I'm not anymore. I left because there's really no place for me since they don't accept who I am and will not be doing so. Also, I don't believe in the theology. But since I stopped trying to follow it, do I feel their teachings effect me? Nope. That's why I'm bemused by all these irreligious and antitheist people in this thread acting like the world is falling down when it literally has nothing to do with them, unless they're Catholic. The Catholic Church has never supported those things in the first place. I mean, even most Catholics don't really follow the Church's beliefs on a number of things. They don't on sex and we even have a self- proclaimed "Catholic" on this board who doesn't even believe in the Trinity or the Pope's authority.

Now about politicians and such, that's just how it is in a democracy. If you don't like what someone believes or their purposed policies, don't vote for them. But they have the right to their views and to advocate for them, like everyone else does.

Aside from politics, it's the same thing. You can argue with them and talk about their beliefs you don't like, but people have the right to their view at the end of the day.

I strongly oppose dog fighting. How can I do that when I'm not a dog? Maybe people just feel sorry for Catholics?

 

[ppp]

I've been going to the same parish with my wife for almost 50 years [August], and I have never heard a priest, nor a deacon, put it in those terms. Instead, the emphasis is being "saved". Neither have I heard or read a pope saying it that way.

I have heard hellfire way from a priest. And a nun. And a Pastor. No joke. I have also heard it with the emphasis on God's love and salvation, But that is just a change in the tone of delivery. Not in the message itself. Save for the the universalist versions of Christianity or the once-saved-always-saved crowd (Catholicism is neither) the message is eternal hell (torment or annihilation) for the non-believer.

 

[danieldemol]

I suppose many people would see this as catering to the the misguided ideas of the young.

So an ad-populum fallacy, got anything else?

 

[danieldemol]

Certainly the later the age, the better chance of not regretting.

The same goes for heart surgery, would you advocate putting that off as well?

 

[YoursTrue]

The Cass review has been released on the matter including puberty blockers and hormonal treatments.

A review into how children with gender dysphoria are treated in England has been released. Here's what it means for Australia

There's been a mixed response amongst Australian medical professionals after the release of England's Cass Review into the treatment of children with gender dysphoria. Here's what some of them had to say about the findings.

www.abc.net.au

On a slightly different note, there have been children born with malformed genitalia and steps were taken from birth to transform them from misformed males to females. Tragic ends have resulted. My heart cries for such ones and I do believe that these will come back in a resurrection because God is good.

 

[Brian2]

The Cass review has been released on the matter including puberty blockers and hormonal treatments.

A review into how children with gender dysphoria are treated in England has been released. Here's what it means for Australia

There's been a mixed response amongst Australian medical professionals after the release of England's Cass Review into the treatment of children with gender dysphoria. Here's what some of them had to say about the findings.

www.abc.net.au

Thanks for that. I had read about the Cass Review but was more interested in the link to see the ABC's Fourcorners programme on the subject which I had missed when it was on the TV.
There certainly seem to be people like Donald Trump who have no understanding and sympathy for trans kids and no doubt there are extremists on the other side also.
It is interesting that the numbers of kids identifying as trans is increasing exponentially. This seems to be something that highlights the psychological problem for many kids about their gender identity. It certainly would be a hard thing to be certain as a psychiatrist that you are choosing the right kids for any transition programme. I hope that they all get the appropriate care they need, no matter what it is.
It's almost like "this is another fine mess you have got us into science" but that is just a comment that many would use to label me.

 

[Brian2]

Amd you're an uneducated layman. You don't have a background in psych or medicine. You're not trans, you've not treated anyone who is. You've not assisted with or conducted the research and you didn't write the reports.
What you see is so clearly biased you refer to it as confusion, which isn't clinically used to describe gender dysphoria, being transgender, transsexual, transvestite, crossdresser, drag queen, none of it.

For some people the problem is confusion which they may get over as they get older.
It would have been better imo if "gender fluidity" ideas had not been introduced to young people in schools. Surely that has had an impact on the confusion that many of the kids have.
Some of the kids of course are really trans.

 

[Brian2]

The same goes for heart surgery, would you advocate putting that off as well?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For some people the problem is confusion which they may get over as they get older.
It would have been better imo if "gender fluidity" ideas had not been introduced to young people in schools. Surely that has had an impact on the confusion that many of the kids have.
Some of the kids of course are really trans.

There was not word or whisper of anything trans when I was in school but I'm still trans. Amd no, the amount of kids identifying as trans hasn't exponentially increased.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There was not word or whisper of anything trans when I was in school but I'm still trans. Amd no, the amount of kids identifying as trans hasn't exponentially increased.

First, let me say that I have no issues with you being trans. I fully understand that there are actually three factors determining one's sex: chromosomes, genitalia and secondary sex characteristics, and brain wiring. In most individuals, all three line up. But there are a significant minority of cases where they do not, where the individual doesn't really fit comfortably into the "male" box or the "female" box, and THAT'S OKAY.


I read earlier this week that approximately 11% of teens are reporting they are not comfortable with the sex of their bodies. That drops to 4% by the age of 26. Believe data, not activists: Transgenderism among kids is mostly a fad I think a couple of things are going on here.

1. I suspect that it is probably normal for teens, who are struggling to find who they are, to question their sexual identity. I think we should be far more relaxed and allow them to experiment with things. If a dude want to wear makeup, or a gal wants to repair cars, no harm done. In most cases, they grow out of it, and become comfortable in their own shoes. It is wrong to jump the gun and alter their bodies in permanent ways.

2. I have seen many instances in which tweens and teens have been talked into thinking they are trans when they are not, sometimes because it is the in thing with their peers, or because they are effeminate gays, or a host of other reasons. There is a PUSH for transgenderism that is harming those who are not really trans, and it causes them permanent sterilization, osteoporosis, and life changing alterations to their bodies that cannot be undone. It's just nuts.

This issue is important to me personally. We had someone in our family who had gender dysphoria. He used to wear his sister's dresses, and the family was okay with this. Around age 30, he announced that he was quite comfortable being male, and that he was sincerely relieved that his body had not been altered. You can understand why I might view the issue through this lens.

 

[Brian2]

There was not word or whisper of anything trans when I was in school but I'm still trans. Amd no, the amount of kids identifying as trans hasn't exponentially increased.

Increase in the number of people identifying as transgender in the UK

The number of people identifying as transgender in their GP records in the UK has increased between 2000 and 2018, finds a new study led by UCL researchers.

www.ucl.ac.uk

It has increased.

 

[metis]

I've not heard them put it in those terms other.

I have heard hellfire way from a priest. And a nun. And a Pastor. No joke.

One of the things I have long experienced over my 79 years, including here at RF, so many of those deep into religion, but certainly not all, often have relatively little background in science-- or so it seems. It's easy to look at one's genitals and draw a conclusion but not really have much knowledge within the science of this. It's all too easy to draw conclusions without considering the trauma some teens go through with this.

One of my granddaughters is gay, so a person with basic compassion well can imagine, and even sympathize, with how difficult it was for her to "come out of the closet". So many of those "trans" go through a similar set of problems but even worse because of the possible surgery possibly needed to make them feel what they really are genetically.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I read earlier this week that approximately 11% of teens are reporting they are not comfortable with the sex of their bodies. That drops to 4% by the age of 26. Believe data, not activists: Transgenderism among kids is mostly a fad I think a couple of things are going on here.

Trust me, that is nothing new to researchers. Again, it's why a transition cannot be rushed. It takes years, with a minimum of one year living full time to qualify for genital surgery, as well as two letters of recommendation for qualified therapists (qualified meaning they specialize in trans care and keep up with a continued education on the subject).
Long before RW bozos learned a few things, misunderstood it all and politicized it all it has been well known that most people who do present [clinically] with symptoms of gender dysphoria will not be going through an extensive medical transition, with many really finding themselves through exploration and discovering they don't need t9 medically transition and instead might cross dress on occasion, act effeminate or just be homosexual. Children too it's been known many won't transition. It's not a fad, it just turns out nature (and that very much includes us) is not black and white and clear cut like we try to force it to be amd as a society we are ill prepared to reintegrate something back into our society that was ostracized and made taboo long ago.
This is why the emphasis on puberty blockers. That's reversible for those who decide not to go further. But for those that do medically transition they can switch to hormones and develop a bodythat more resembles their identitified sex.
Try learning from those who have actually studied the topic.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Again, it's why a transition cannot be rushed.

I absolutely agree. It should not even be considered for minors.

It takes years, with a minimum of one year living full time to qualify for genital surgery, as well as two letters of recommendation for qualified therapists (qualified meaning they specialize in trans care and keep up with a continued education on the subject).

This is no longer the case. A child can go to a clinic that offers hormones and sex altering surgeries, and only needs a short interview before such things are prescribed. There is no year long waiting. There is no counseling for comorbid mental conditions. They are lied to and told that it is reversible if need be. The way things have become is absolutely reckless and harmful in a great many cases.

Things have changed.

Now in Europe, it is a different case. They were the first to jump on the transition bandwagon, but they are also the first to recognize its recklessness and back off. They recognize that there simply are no good long term studies that prove these procedures do no harm. For example, "In March 2024, NHS England announced that it would no longer prescribe puberty blockers to minors outside of use in clinical research trials, citing insufficient evidence of safety or clinical effectiveness. "

Now if someone is an adult, that is a different case. They have the maturity to make these kinds of decisions (provided they are given actual facts and not ideology). If an adult wants to alter their body, that is their right. Hey, if an adult wants plastic surgery to look like a cat, as bizarre as that is, it is still their right. I don't interfere in what adults choose to do with their bodies.

There is an episode of Dr Phil Primetime called "The Whistleblowers: How Young is Too Young to Transition?" One of the guests is a transgender woman who used to work at a clinic for "gender affirming care" who shares what REALLY goes on at those clinics, including the lying. The website is www.meritplus.com. It is free, although you do have to register.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Increase in the number of people identifying as transgender in the UK

The number of people identifying as transgender in their GP records in the UK has increased between 2000 and 2018, finds a new study led by UCL researchers.

www.ucl.ac.uk

It has increased.

That is ages 10 to 99, so not kids like you focus on. And those who are specifically reporting to a general healthcare practitioner with it. That doesn't mean more people are identifying as trans. Lots of people have identified but never come out of the closet.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is no longer the case. A child can go to a clinic that offers hormones and sex altering surgeries, and only needs a short interview before such things are prescribed

That is not true.
And Dr. Phil? An unethical quack with no license to practice? That's Hollywood garbage, not evidence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One of the things I have long experienced over my 79 years, including here at RF, so many of those deep into religion, but certainly not all, often have relatively little background in science

It becomes obvious as they speak. It doesn't address the threats of an angry god who's looking for an excuse to damn us.