Vatican Blasts Trans Surgery, Surogacy, Etc

[Heyo]

Oh nothing will be good enough for some. I'm used to it.

And nothing will be bad enough for some others. Forceful proselytation, crusades, witch burnings, colonialism and now the systematic protection of criminals. Just coincidences, or is there an underlying systemic principle, that allows and even encourages immoral and illegal behaviour?

 

[Kathryn]

And nothing will be bad enough for some others. Forceful proselytation, crusades, witch burnings, colonialism and now the systematic protection of criminals. Just coincidences, or is there an underlying systemic principle, that allows and even encourages immoral and illegal behaviour?

My goodness, you sound like a Lutheran.

 

[Revoltingest]

About 4 percent of priests are pedophiles, which is actually a lower percentage than a lot of other institutions, including religious and non religious ones. Oh well. There's a lot of Catholics world wide and a lot of priests, so the numbers look bad till you dissect them. Not to say that I don't feel terrible for the victims, which I do. All of them.

Again, we must address the fact that the Church has
a mechanism to shield its child molesters, & has a
history of them by covering up their crimes, & moving
them to different venues with fresh meat.

Also, this 4% number doesn't address the possibility
that the Church enabled priests to be serial child
molesters, thereby increasing the number of victims
per perpetrator. The problem with pedophile &
ephebophile priests is very likely far larger than
that single digit number suggests.

 

[Revoltingest]

And nothing will be bad enough for some others. Forceful proselytation, crusades, witch burnings, colonialism and now the systematic protection of criminals. Just coincidences, or is there an underlying systemic principle, that allows and even encourages immoral and illegal behaviour?

Aye, it functions as organized crime.
And yet....this Pope blasts transgenderism, surrogacy,
& trans surgery as "grave violations of human dignity".
Such foul hypocrisy & intent to oppress non-Catholics.
Changing one's sex doesn't harm others.
Surrogacy doesn't harm others.
These things benefit the parties involved.

 

[Revoltingest]

Speaking of surviving or not surviving abuse, most are killed by a friend or relative. In fact, most are killed by their mothers. Pretty sure I've already given links to that info, so I won't again.

Friends, relatives, & mothers don't have an
organization protecting them from being
held accountable for their crimes.

 

[Heyo]

My goodness, you sound like a Lutheran.

I've been one - nominally.

Which doesn't mean that I won't hold them accountable. While they have got rid of some of the worst structural practices, they still participated in witch burning, colonialism and Luther himself was an anti-Semite. And that shows that it isn't only the structure of Catholicism that instils immorality. The problem lies deeper.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've been one - nominally.

You were a luthier?

 

[Heyo]

You were a luthier?

I wish, but that is beyond my craftsmanship.

 

[pearl]

The members of society that children are taught to trust hold an immense responsibility and we base it on a costume.

Unfortunately, yes. What you refer to as 'costume' are in the Church known as symbols or signs which effect what they symbolize. Also, most unfortunate are the many priests who are faithful to their vows but have lost the trust.

Relocating pedophile priests takes orchestration.

The Church hierarchy was more interested in protecting the reputation of the Church than correcting a wrong.

Why does this organization, in all its aiding and abetting, lose all credibility yet never miss a beat?

With all the ugliness of its people, the Church is greater than its sinners.

 

[Kathryn]

I've been one - nominally.

Which doesn't mean that I won't hold them accountable. While they have got rid of some of the worst structural practices, they still participated in witch burning, colonialism and Luther himself was an anti-Semite. And that shows that it isn't only the structure of Catholicism that instils immorality. The problem lies deeper.

Well we can agree on that point (the last sentence).

 

[Revoltingest]

Is anyone defending the Vatican's claims (excerpted from the OP link)?

"The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that it said reject God’s plan for human life."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are they church based? That's one of the things I had difficulties in determining. Most of the time, the name doesn't reveal if a charity is secular or religious. The rating organizations don't list it, and even the websites are suspiciously silent.

There's plenty of research showing the Christians tend to give more.
However, they are way more likely to give to their own and keep it in the community while atheists have been found more likely to give to things outside their immediate communities where they won't see the results of their donations.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is anyone defending the Vatican's claims (excerpted from the OP link)?

"The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that it said reject God’s plan for human life."

I have been happily and thwarting his plans and at odds with his representatives for over 20 years.
Out of all the people who had some crap to say about me, it's an honor to be included in something the head honcho says is terribly bad. It's usually nobodies condemning me. But this is a Pope people like.

 

[Heyo]

There's plenty of research showing the Christians tend to give more.
However, they are way more likely to give to their own and keep it in the community while atheists have been found more likely to give to things outside their immediate communities where they won't see the results of their donations.

I knew that, and I can find citations for it. What I was looking for are the efficiencies of the organizations. Way back, when charity rating organizations didn't exist, or weren't as known, I read an article about Christian organizations being especially ineffective. It seems that has changed, but I couldn't find a clear overview.

 

[metis]

Relocating pedophile priests takes orchestration. Which means a hell of a lot of Catholics don't seem to mind weaponizing robes designed for victimizing children. Just in someone else's church. Why does this organization, in all its aiding and abetting, lose all credibility yet never miss a beat?

A great many Catholics were horrified by the accounts and left the church. My wife & I stopped going for two months, and there's a good chance we will leave permanently over some different issues since then. It's hard for my wife as she was brought up in the church, including going to parochial schools.

 

[Kathryn]

To clarify, not everyone likes the current pope, though I respect the office.

 

[Revoltingest]

A great many Catholics were horrified by the accounts and left the church. My wife & I stopped going for two months....

I'll bet that really put the Church on notice.

 

[Revoltingest]

To clarify, not everyone likes the current pope, though I respect the office.

Do you respect his claims about violations of
human dignity that I broached in the OP?

 

[Kathryn]

Sure.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure.

Was this post following mine a response to it?
I wasn't quoted, so I'm not sure.
If so, does this mean agreement with surrogacy &
trans surgery being grave violations of human dignity?
How so?

This isn't the Pope telling the flock how to behave.
He seeks to impose it on all under the guise of
protecting rights. Instead, it's really about the
imposition on Catholic proscriptions on everyone.

Right to children or children’s rights? Surrogacy debate comes to a head in Rome

An international campaign to ban surrogacy has received a strong endorsement from the Vatican. A top official is calling for a broad-based alliance to stop the “commercialization of life” catering to wealthy would-be parents.

apnews.com

Excerpted....
ROME (AP) — An international campaign to ban surrogacy received a strong endorsement Friday from the Vatican, with a top official calling for a broad-based alliance to stop the “commercialization of life.”

A Vatican-affiliated university hosted a two-day conference promoting an international treaty to outlaw surrogacy, be it commercial arrangements or so-called altruistic ones. It’s based on the campaigners’ argument that the practice violates U.N. conventions protecting the rights of the child and surrogate mother.