Vedanta and science

[mahesh]

There is a difference between Brahman and Parbrahman. Parbrahman is another.

uttaman purusas to anyah param atmety udahrtah
yo loka trayam avisya bibhartu avyaya isvarah

 

[Pariah]

What chapter and verse from Bhagavad Gita is that?

 

[Aupmanyav]

That was 15.17, this is 18.20.

Sarva-bhūteṣu yenaikam, bhāvam avyayam īkṣate;
avibhaktaḿ vibhakteṣu, taj jñānaḿ viddhi sāttvikam.

sarva-bhūteṣu — in all living entities; yena — by which; ekam — one; bhāvam — situation; avyayam — imperishable; īkṣate — one sees; avibhaktam — undivided; vibhakteṣu — in the numberless divided; tat — that; jñānam — knowledge; viddhi — know; sāttvikam — in the mode of goodness.

(All entities as one, that situation of seeing is imperishable;
in undivided and divided, to know that way is the mode of goodness.)

 

[Valjean]

I think the Devanagari script is prettier...

 

[mahesh]

That was 15.17, this is 18.20.

Sarva-bhūteṣu yenaikam, bhāvam avyayam īkṣate;
avibhaktaḿ vibhakteṣu, taj jñānaḿ viddhi sāttvikam.

sarva-bhūteṣu — in all living entities; yena — by which; ekam — one; bhāvam — situation; avyayam — imperishable; īkṣate — one sees; avibhaktam — undivided; vibhakteṣu — in the numberless divided; tat — that; jñānam — knowledge; viddhi — know; sāttvikam — in the mode of goodness.

(All entities as one, that situation of seeing is imperishable;
in undivided and divided, to know that way is the mode of goodness.)

You can't write off the 15.17 and pick and choose what part you accept.
That is for minds the size of a molecule.You have to embrace the whole Gita, not just the parts that fit into your little frame of acceptance. As shri Krishna talks about Karma and attaining Him and showing his Vishvarup. Why dont you show your Vishvaroop Aupmanyav?

18.20: understand that knowledge by one undivided, imperishable reality is seen within all diverse living entities is in the nature of goodness.

Shri Krishna is talking about the soul within everyone!! That He lives as sakshi in all these souls.

10.11:
Translation:

out of compassion for them, I situated within the heart, certainly destroy darkness born out of ignorance with the radiant light of knowledge.

10:2:
Translation:
neither the demigods nor the great sages understand my divine transcedental appearance, because i am the original source of teh demigods and of the great sages in every aspect.

10:12-13

Transliteration:

Anvaya:

Translation:

18:21

All this is adhyatma talk. You believers of the Shusk vedants would not believe such. Not just that but God doesnt like those who believe Him in a Nirakaar form.

 

[Pariah]

All this is adhyatma talk. You believers of the Shusk vedants would not believe such. Not just that but God doesnt like those who believe Him in a Nirakaar form.

What is Nirakaar?

I think the Devanagari script is prettier...

A gift for you: a couple of my favorite verses from BG.

 

[Aupmanyav]

..Why dont you show your Vishvaroop Aupmanyav?

It is all around you, Mahesh, but you need eyes of knowledge to see it. Your mind is in fetters due to wrong instruction. See the chair that you are sitting on, see the computer table, see your computer, see the electric switches, see the curtains in your room, see the electric light in your room, hear your son calling you, see your own self in a mirror; whom do you see? If you see people and non-living things, you are not seeing the truth. Aupmanyav is all around you, Aupmanyav is you. Those who see differences, do not see. That is what Lord Krishna said. Krishna is no other than me, even Swami Sahajananda was no other than me. Open your eyes, and you would see my Vishvaroopa. I am in the air you breathe, I am in the water you drink, I am in the food you take. There is nowhere, where I am not present.

 

[mahesh]

What is Nirakaar?



A gift for you: a couple of my favorite verses from BG.

yep very nice

 

[mahesh]

It is all around you, Mahesh, but you need eyes of knowledge to see it. Your mind is in fetters due to wrong instruction. See the chair that you are sitting on, see the computer table, see your computer, see the electric switches, see the curtains in your room, see the electric light in your room, hear your son calling you, see your own self in a mirror; whom do you see? If you see people and non-living things, you are not seeing the truth. Aupmanyav is all around you, Aupmanyav is you. Those who see differences, do not see. That is what Lord Krishna said. Krishna is no other than me, even Swami Sahajananda was no other than me. Open your eyes, and you would see my Vishvaroopa. I am in the air you breathe, I am in the water you drink, I am in the food you take. There is nowhere, where I am not present.

No I want to see what Arjun Saw. Can you not do that much for me? LOL. Nope I didn’t think so. What Arjun saw with his eyes is not what I see. Don’t try and copy what Shri Krishna states. You will bring nothing but destruction upon your self. Do what he stated for soul to do.

You do turn a bind eye to His word dont you? Your view makes no sense at all either. You also fail to discuss the rest of the quotes from the Shri Gita I pasted above as well.

Truth is id rather follow His word in teh Gita then yours im afraid to tell you. As would millions of others. HAHA

 

[mahesh]

Transliteration:

Note Arjun talks of Shri Krishna as ParamBrahm

 

[Pariah]

Transliteration:

Note Arjun talks of Shri Krishna as ParamBrahm

When quoting scripture, you should always remember to post the chapter and verse numbers, as well as how it applies to conversation, or all such references are null, void, and useless in conversation and debate.

 

[Pariah]

No I want to see what Arjun Saw. Can you not do that much for me? LOL. Nope I didn’t think so. What Arjun saw with his eyes is not what I see. Don’t try and copy what Shri Krishna states. You will bring nothing but destruction upon your self. Do what he stated for soul to do.

The Vishwaroopa is absolutely irrelevant to anything. Notice also, that Krishna did not show his true form to Arjuna, until Arjuna asked him to. If it was so terribly important, don't you think Krishna would have done it before hand, or at least under his own volition, as opposed to compliance?

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You do turn a bind eye to His word dont you? Your view makes no sense at all either. You also fail to discuss the rest of the quotes from the Shri Gita I pasted above as well.

Let me take a stab.

18.20
That knowledge by which one undivided spiritual nature is seen in all living entities, though they are divided into innumerable forms, you should understand to be in the mode of goodness.

Shri Krishna is talking about the soul within everyone!! That He lives as sakshi in all these souls.

Yes, Krishna does refer to the souls within everyone, however, he never refers to himself in this verse. Please explain sakshi.
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10.11
To show them special mercy, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance.

But who is Krishna?

10.2
Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin or opulences, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and sages.

I would not doubt it. Truly, Krishna is the source of demigods and sages, as you and I, are the source of Krishna, as Indra is the source of you and I, and as mud is the source of Vishnu and Krishna.

 

[Aupmanyav]

IMHO, Lord Krishna (Indian wisdom according to me, as an advaitist, I do not believe in avataras) is not referring to 'soul', he is referring to one substrate constituting all entities, living as well as non-living, that is Brahman. Geeta is not easy to understand.

'Nirmāna-mohā jita-sańga-doṣā, adhyātma-nityā vinivṛtta-kāmāh;
dvandvair vimuktāḥ sukha-duḥkha-saḿjñair, gacchanty amūḍhāḥ padam avyayaḿ tat.' (Geeta 15.5)

Without false prestige and illusions, having conquored false association, always thinking of the eternal, without material lust;
free from the dualities called happiness and distress, attain unbewildered the stage of that eternal.

Mahesh, you are suffering from 'Sanga-dosha' (False association).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Mahesh, this is very deep knowledge. Consider humans as clouds in a water vapour laden atmosphere. They form and disappear. Do the clouds need a soul? The water vapour distributed all through it is its soul. Similar we all, Sankaracharyas, Sahajanandas, Aupmanyavas, Maheshas, Buddhas and Christs, form all the time in it and disappear. What we are constituted of will form new objects, living and non-living. All this talk of Golokas and Parabrahmans is philosophical acrobatics or outright deception which people come up to benefit themselves. You (and me) have nowhere else to go. That is why it is wrong to put one cloud on a pedastal. That also came and disappeared in its time.

 

[mahesh]

When quoting scripture, you should always remember to post the chapter and verse numbers, as well as how it applies to conversation, or all such references are null, void, and useless in conversation and debate.

Well seeing as you know so much find it yourself. Shri Krishna IS Parbrahman Purshottam Narayan. If all is Brahman why is there suffering? Why are some born disabled and undergo pain? Why is some Brahman in the form of fishes? Pigs, dogs etc. Why does the stone not move? What is the purpose of life, creation or what you and me see according to your barren philosophy?

 

[mahesh]

"Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 7.24

"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 9.29

"The Supreme Lord has nothing to do, and no one is found to be equal to or greater than Him, for everything is done naturally and systematically by His multifarious energies." —Svetashvatara Upanishad 6.8

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 15.6

"Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Srimad-Bhagavatam propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. . . . This beautiful Bhagavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyasadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization." —Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.2

 

[mahesh]

21) MAYAVINO MAMIRE ASYA MAYAYA |

------(596,Samaveda)​

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By imbibing knowledge the greatest of the ignorant can become noble and knowledgeable. By acquiring knowledge the darkness of ignorance is destroyed. As a result the wicked also become compassionate renounce their wickedness, their attachment and become noble. The flame of knowledge leads a person to the path of progress.(22) AMRITAYA APYAYAMANAHA DIVI UTTAMANI SHRAVANSI DHISHWA |

------(603,Samaveda)​

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Attain success and tread on the path of progress to attain liberation. Humans are incessantly engaged in work so that they can liberate themselves from the bondages of material life. All the spiritual knowledge given by the great scholars help us in our endeavors to liberate ourselves. We tread on the path of progress by utilizing the means to attain liberation. This as a result gives us happiness and joy.

 

[Valjean]

Well seeing as you know so much find it yourself. Shri Krishna IS Parbrahman Purshottam Narayan. If all is Brahman why is there suffering? Why are some born disabled and undergo pain? Why is some Brahman in the form of fishes? Pigs, dogs etc. Why does the stone not move? What is the purpose of life, creation or what you and me see according to your barren philosophy?

This is not a barren philosophy, mahesh.

Perhaps it appears barren to you because of your limited, 3-D, time constrained perspective. It also sounds as though you have a deep, psychic need for purpose in life and are confusing your need with Reality as described by physics and enlightened souls.

This is why Sanatana Dharma provides so many, individualized paths to this eventual realization of a single conscious Unity underlying perception.

It would be silly to write an artistic criticism of a Monet or Rembrandt from a microscopic examination of a section smaller than a period/full-stop (.)
It would be silly to write a review of a symphony after hearing only two notes.

How much less than this do we actually perceive of our multidimensional Universe from our tiny, 3-D world?

Neti neti!

 

[mahesh]

Shri Krishna IS Parbrahman Purshottam Narayan. If all is Brahman why is there suffering? Why are some born disabled and undergo pain? Why is some Brahman in the form of fishes? Pigs, dogs etc. Why does the stone not move? What is the purpose of life, creation or what you and me see according to your barren philosophy?

"Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 7.24

"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 9.29

"The Supreme Lord has nothing to do, and no one is found to be equal to or greater than Him, for everything is done naturally and systematically by His multifarious energies." —Svetashvatara Upanishad 6.8

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 15.6

"Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Srimad-Bhagavatam propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. . . . This beautiful Bhagavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyasadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization." —Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.1.2

21) MAYAVINO MAMIRE ASYA MAYAYA |

------(596,Samaveda)​

By imbibing knowledge the greatest of the ignorant can become noble and knowledgeable. By acquiring knowledge the darkness of ignorance is destroyed. As a result the wicked also become compassionate renounce their wickedness, their attachment and become noble. The flame of knowledge leads a person to the path of progress.(22) AMRITAYA APYAYAMANAHA DIVI UTTAMANI SHRAVANSI DHISHWA |

------(603,Samaveda)​

Attain success and tread on the path of progress to attain liberation. Humans are incessantly engaged in work so that they can liberate themselves from the bondages of material life. All the spiritual knowledge given by the great scholars help us in our endeavors to liberate ourselves. We tread on the path of progress by utilizing the means to attain liberation. This as a result gives us happiness and joy.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ir is not easy to understand Sri Krishna or Geeta for those whose minds are clouded by 'avidya'. What suffering? Is there a suffering or it is your illusion? Brahman that constitutes even a disabled for deformed person is just as perfect. Why only fish, all that you percieve is Brahman, even dogs and pigs, as I said even a grain of sand. Just look inside the stone, everything there is in furious motion, the electrons orbiting at 600 kms per second. There is nothing still in a stone. Purpose of life is what you give to it. Brahman has no desire that you may associate with your own life. Is there really a creation, or you are dreaming? If you and me see with our limited senses, we would not see anything other than illusions. To see more, go beyond them.