Verifiable evidence for creationism?

[rusra02]

I understood that the captivity lasted from the fall of Jerusalem in 586 BCE to the fall of Babylon in 538 BCE, a period of only 48 years

The book of Daniel was made after the events thus is not a prophecy. The book of Ezra was also written after the fact but also edited as well.



That you have zero understanding of modern biblical scholarship

The book of Daniel also prophecies the exact year the Messiah would appear, and of Jerusalem's second destruction, events that took place long after the book was written. The assertion that Daniel was written after the events he prophecies is simply false. The book of Ezra did not prophesy about Cyrus. He did record the fact that Cyrus released the Jews from captivity. Isaiah wrote those prophecies.

 

[Etritonakin]

You mean God created humans just for some company? Like I might get a cat?

As if company is an insignificant thing? It makes everything more significant -and is not only a perfectly logical step, but is also psychologically beneficial.

I'll have to find the verses, but the biblically-stated purpose for our existence is indeed to cause more love, awe, wonder, joy, etc...

Making something awesome is awesome, but sharing it is far more awesome.

 

[Altfish]

The book of Daniel also prophecies the exact year the Messiah would appear, and of Jerusalem's second destruction, events that took place long after the book was written. The assertion that Daniel was written after the events he prophecies is simply false. The book of Ezra did not prophesy about Cyrus. He did record the fact that Cyrus released the Jews from captivity. Isaiah wrote those prophecies.

Did it prophecy anything that was not also in the bible? Something useful like the discovery of penicillin?
Managing to predict things that happen later in the same book fails to impress me.

 

[outhouse]

The book of Daniel also prophecies the exact year the Messiah would appear

Quote it. You have no credibility or authority so your word cannot be trusted alone.

Jerusalem's second destruction

Quote it

 

[outhouse]

The book of Daniel also prophecies the exact year the Messiah would appear

Quote it. You have no credibility or authority so your word cannot be trusted alone.

Jerusalem's second destruction

Quote it

 

[outhouse]

The assertion that Daniel was written after the events he prophecies is simply false.

The book dates to 200BC with a high degree of certainty and credibility

 

[jeager106]

I agree completely with the author of ^^^^^ this.
If you can't quote then you response is not worthy of consideration.
I mean NO offense.
Just suggesting a reliable quote would validate your statement
a bit.

 

[Etritonakin]

Did it prophecy anything that was not also in the bible? Something useful like the discovery of penicillin?
Managing to predict things that happen later in the same book fails to impress me.

The book of Daniel??????

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.



The dream of Nebuchadnezzar describes major kingdoms from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon to the modern E.U. -and beyond.

Other parts of Daniel give extreme detail of the succession of those kingdoms.

Daniel 11 describes events from "Darius the Mede" until the setting up of the kingdom of God on Earth!

Everything that happened from then until now is written in the book of Daniel -and more detail is given in other books!

You should be impressed!

Major events from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon to the present are described in detail....

...and the following is happening/will happen.... present events in Europe -and what will follow

(a continuation of the activities of those involved in the crusades -and opposition.. the king of the north being generally the European/so-called Christian side -the king of the south being generally the Islamic side/opposition -but describing different rulers over time.)

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[johnhanks]

...and the following is happening.... present events in Europe -and what will follow

(a continuation of the activities of those involved in the crusades and opposition thereof..)

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Um ... have I missed something? I don't recall any chariots or horsemen entering the country, nor do I see any massing on the borders. And as far as I'm aware neither "the south" nor "the north" have kings.

Present events in Europe? With enough special pleading, your entire quote could be made to fit pretty well anywhere in the world at any time in history.

 

[Etritonakin]

Um ... have I missed something? I don't recall any chariots or horsemen entering the country, nor do I see any massing on the borders. And as far as I'm aware neither "the south" nor "the north" have kings.

Present events in Europe? With enough special pleading, your entire quote could be made to fit pretty well anywhere in the world at any time in history.

The "king of the south" and "king of the north" actually describe different rulers of the same areas over time.

Presently, radical Islam is pushing against Europe. Europe's response will eventually be "like a whirlwind".

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

...but the king of the north will continue to around Jerusalem.....

Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[johnhanks]

Presently, radical Islam is pushing against Europe. Europe's response will eventually be "like a whirlwind"

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Yes, you said that before. I still see no chariots, horsemen, or kings.

I know, I know, you're going to tell me these aren't literal chariots, horsemen, and kings, but they're all metaphorical; which is precisely what I meant when I said that with enough special pleading you can make the quote fit pretty well any scenario you like.

 

[Etritonakin]

Yes, you said that before. I still see no chariots, horsemen, or kings.

I know, I know, you're going to tell me these aren't literal chariots, horsemen, and kings, but they're all metaphorical; which is precisely what I meant when I said that with enough special pleading you can make the quote fit pretty well any scenario you like.

No -I'm saying that the present terrorist acts against Europe will soon be met with Europe's significant military forces.

Literal chariots will likely be absent -but tanks are more effective -and more readily available.

 

[johnhanks]

No -I'm saying that the present terrorist acts against Europe will soon be met with Europe's significant military forces.

Literal chariots will likely be absent -but tanks are more effective -and more readily available.

Exactly as I predicted: even though the Daniel quote refers to chariots, horsemen and kings, it's "really" about tanks, terrorists and the rulers of present-day nation states. Apply metaphor generously enough and you can make pretty well any piece of prophetic writing fit whatever scenario you wish.

 

[Etritonakin]

Exactly as I predicted: even though the Daniel quote refers to chariots, horsemen and kings, it's "really" about tanks, terrorists and the rulers of present-day nation states. Apply metaphor generously enough and you can make pretty well any piece of prophetic writing fit whatever scenario you wish.

What is the Hebrew word for tank -and what does that have to do with Europe soon passing over (not ignoring, but overwhelming) Islamic forces on the way to the holy land?

When that happens, will you still be confused because ancient Israelites did not yet have a specific word for mechanized war machines?

H7393
רכב
rekeb
reh'-keb
From H7392; a vehicle; by implication a team; by extension cavalry; by analogy a rider, that is, the upper millstone: - chariot, (upper) millstone, multitude [from the margin], wagon.

 

[Etritonakin]

Exactly as I predicted: even though the Daniel quote refers to chariots, horsemen and kings, it's "really" about tanks, terrorists and the rulers of present-day nation states. Apply metaphor generously enough and you can make pretty well any piece of prophetic writing fit whatever scenario you wish.

Exactly as God declared from the beginning, this has happened -and is the end which will happen....

Dan 11:1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.
Dan 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
Dan 11:3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
Dan 11:4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
Dan 11:5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.
Dan 11:6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.
Dan 11:7 But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:
Dan 11:8 And shall also carry captives into Egypt their gods, with their princes, and with their precious vessels of silver and of gold; and he shall continue more years than the king of the north.
Dan 11:9 So the king of the south shall come into his kingdom, and shall return into his own land.
Dan 11:10 But his sons shall be stirred up, and shall assemble a multitude of great forces: and one shall certainly come, and overflow, and pass through: then shall he return, and be stirred up, even to his fortress.
Dan 11:11 And the king of the south shall be moved with choler, and shall come forth and fight with him, even with the king of the north: and he shall set forth a great multitude; but the multitude shall be given into his hand.
Dan 11:12 And when he hath taken away the multitude, his heart shall be lifted up; and he shall cast down many ten thousands: but he shall not be strengthened by it.
Dan 11:13 For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches.
Dan 11:14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.
Dan 11:15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.
Dan 11:16 But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.
Dan 11:17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.
Dan 11:18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him.
Dan 11:19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.
Dan 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.
Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Dan 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
Dan 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
Dan 11:25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
Dan 11:26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
Dan 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
Dan 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
Dan 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
Dan 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[Etritonakin]

Exactly as I predicted: even though the Daniel quote refers to chariots, horsemen and kings, it's "really" about tanks, terrorists and the rulers of present-day nation states. Apply metaphor generously enough and you can make pretty well any piece of prophetic writing fit whatever scenario you wish.

Or.... do you believe that the now-combined forces of the EU will refrain from opening up a can of whoop-*** in response to increased terrorist activity?

 

[johnhanks]

What is the Hebrew word for tank -and what does that have to do with Europe soon passing over (not ignoring, but overwhelming) Islamic forces on the way to the holy land?

When that happens, will you still be confused because ancient Israelites did not yet have a specific word for mechanized war machines?

I'm not in the least confused, I promise you. My point remains that if we allow sufficiently liberal metaphorical interpretation, you can fit pretty well any piece of prophetic writing to pretty well any scenario you like, past or present; and that certainly applies to the huge screed you pasted in #735. (In fact, the more closely I read it the clearer it becomes that the whole thing is about the Eurovision Song Contest. How could we have been so blind?)

 

[Etritonakin]

I'm not in the least confused, I promise you. My point remains that if we allow sufficiently liberal metaphorical interpretation, you can fit pretty well any piece of prophetic writing to pretty well any scenario you like, past or present; and that certainly applies to the huge screed you pasted in #735. (In fact, the more closely I read it the clearer it becomes that the whole thing is about the Eurovision Song Contest. How could we have been so blind?)

You can see cows and ducks in clouds -but they are still clouds. Believe as you will, but what you wrote is incorrect.

 

[Shad]

The book of Daniel also prophecies the exact year the Messiah would appear, and of Jerusalem's second destruction, events that took place long after the book was written. The assertion that Daniel was written after the events he prophecies is simply false.

No it didn't as you have to ignore the timeline given to make it work.

The book of Ezra did not prophesy about Cyrus. He did record the fact that Cyrus released the Jews from captivity. Isaiah wrote those prophecies.

Never said he did. Just that it also a product made after the fact. Isaiah was also written after the fact.

 

[Thief]

It's a simple question, why are you avoiding it?

What evidence is there for a creator God?

the creation