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Verifiable evidence for creationism?

Is there any verifiable evidence for creationism?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 19.0%
  • No

    Votes: 85 81.0%

  • Total voters
    105

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Sure.

  1. Create humans with his image - pettiness, vanity.
  2. Punishing Adam and Eve for disobedience, even though he plant the tree there - illogical, stupidity, wrath.
  3. Demanding Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, as test of faith - more pettiness.
  4. Ten Commandments: "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God...", more pettiness, jealousy.
  5. Ten Commandments, same verse: "...punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me" - wrathful, hold grudges.
  6. Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, David - like to play favourite-tism.
  7. Demanding genocide of the Amakelites, from Saul - again, hold grudges, more pettiness, murderous.
  8. Accepting Satan's wagers, and test Job - egotistic jerk, arrogance, pettiness.
  9. JOB 38 - 41 - ranting and sprouting all sort of superstitions and ignorance.
no wonder you have difficulties about God.....
you can't see past the words....
 

Blastcat

Active Member
thought and feeling


Ok, That's interesting.

Those characteristics are anthropomorphisms. When we ascribe HUMAN characteristics to a concept, like "thinking" and "feeling", for example, we are anthropomorphizing the concept. Feelings are what humans have.

Does your God have a human body to feel with, or a brain to think?

:)
 
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Blastcat

Active Member
no wonder you have difficulties about God.....
you can't see past the words....

If we want to understand the concept of "God" we must use words. If we want to understand each other about ANY concept, unfortunately, we cannot GO "past" the words. That's all we got to communicate complex concepts with. I like going to churches with wonderful art and look at that. I love religious music too, but art does not convey complex concepts very well at all.

For that, we need words.

Humans have feelings that they can't really explain very well. This is a common human trait. So, some people invent a projection of their feelings onto a .. "God" perhaps. The God as projection is usually anthropomorphized for that reason. We want to "look" at our best selves personified ... Unfortunately, all too many people take these ideas entirely too far. Naive people confuse metaphor for what it's supposed to represent.

Words are like that... words are merely shortcuts to communicate with one another about ideas that we want to represent. When the communication breaks down, there is NO understanding. Saying that we somehow have to go "past" the words is to say that no conversation is possible.

I can assure you that communication, even about complex concepts such as "God" IS possible.

:)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
If we want to understand the concept of "God" we must use words. If we want to understand each other about ANY concept, unfortunately, we cannot GO "past" the words. That's all we got to communicate complex concepts with. I like going to churches with wonderful art and look at that. I love religious music too, but art does not convey complex concepts very well at all.

For that, we need words.

Humans have feelings that they can't really explain very well. This is a common human trait. So, some people invent a projection of their feelings onto a .. "God" perhaps. The God as projection is usually anthropomorphized for that reason. We want to "look" at our best selves personified ... Unfortunately, all too many people take these ideas entirely too far. Naive people confuse metaphor for what it's supposed to represent.

Words are like that... words are merely shortcuts to communicate with one another about ideas that we want to represent. When the communication breaks down, there is NO understanding. Saying that we somehow have to go "past" the words is to say that no conversation is possible.

I can assure you that communication, even about complex concepts such as "God" IS possible.

:)
metaphor and parables
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Ok, That's interesting.

Those characteristics are anthropomorphisms. When we ascribe HUMAN characteristics to a concept, like "thinking" and "feeling", for example, we are anthropomorphizing the concept. Feelings are what humans have.

Does your God have a human body to feel with, or a brain to think?

:)
you don't need eyes to see
you don't need flesh to feel

and sooner than later......It must be that way
 

idea

Question Everything
72 pages... has this thread gone round the fine tuning argument? How about the existence of conscience/mind/self-awareness/intelligence?

Has it yet discussed the meaning of the word "create" that create does not mean to make something out of nothing, but instead means to organize what eternally exists?
In "a" beginning God "organized" the heavens and the earth?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html
 

AndromedaRXJ

Active Member
Ok, That's interesting.

Those characteristics are anthropomorphisms. When we ascribe HUMAN characteristics to a concept, like "thinking" and "feeling", for example, we are anthropomorphizing the concept. Feelings are what humans have.

Does your God have a human body to feel with, or a brain to think?

:)

I hate to play devil's advocate, but don't all (or most) animals think and feel? I wouldn't really call it a human-exclusive trait as it's quite a broad trait. Though I agree that the god of the Bible definitely has a plethora of human traits. No doubt about it.
 

idea

Question Everything
... I agree that the god of the Bible definitely has a plethora of human traits. ....

Not just traits - He is human - with physical hands, face, back, toes, fingers - He's a human, He is our Heavenly "Father", we are actually His children etc. etc.


God, Body of, Corporeal Nature
See also Man, a Spirit Child of Heavenly Father ; Man, Physical Creation of
  • God created man in his own image: Gen. 1:27 . ( Moses 2:27 . )
  • God created man, in the likeness of God made he him: Gen. 5:1 .
  • in the image of God made he man: Gen. 9:6 .
  • Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing: Gen. 18:33 .
  • I have seen God face to face: Gen. 32:30 .
  • they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet: Ex. 24:10 .
  • written with the finger of God: Ex. 31:18 . ( Deut. 9:10 . )
  • Lord spake unto Moses face to face: Ex. 33:11 .
  • thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen: Ex. 33:23 .
  • With him will I speak mouth to mouth: Num. 12:8 .
  • a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son: Matt. 3:17 .
  • every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God: Matt. 4:4 .
  • a voice out of the cloud: Matt. 17:5 .
  • for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have: Luke 24:39 .
  • he that hath seen me hath seen the Father: John 14:9 .
  • the Son of man standing on the right hand of God: Acts 7:56 .
  • predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son: Rom. 8:29 .
  • Christ, who is the image of God: 2 Cor. 4:4 .
  • Who, being in the form of God: Philip. 2:6 .
  • our vile body … fashioned like unto his glorious body: Philip. 3:21 .
  • Who is the image of the invisible God: Col. 1:15 .
  • the express image of his person: Heb. 1:3 .
  • men, which are made after the similitude of God: James 3:9 .
  • when he shall appear, we shall be like him: 1 Jn. 3:2 .
  • they shall see his face: Rev. 22:4 .
 

Blastcat

Active Member
afterlife

if that's not in your repertoire ....ooops
and it's getting late in this life to make prep for the next

oh well


What does this comment have to do with what you were replying to?

You said that

"you don't need eyes to see
you don't need flesh to feel"

I was saying that you anthropomorphize your god to have HUMAN characteristics, and then you say that we don't need eyes to see or flesh to feel. Perhaps you are talking about imagination. We can close our eyes and imagine that we see.. and imagine that we feel. We can IMAGINE a whole lot of things, like gods.

I asked if you could explain how it is we can see without eyes, or feel without flesh. You answer by talking about the AFTER life.

Changing the subject so radically does NOT make your case more credible.

:)
 
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Blastcat

Active Member
I hate to play devil's advocate, but don't all (or most) animals think and feel? I wouldn't really call it a human-exclusive trait as it's quite a broad trait. Though I agree that the god of the Bible definitely has a plethora of human traits. No doubt about it.

Yes, of course, I didn't include animals in order to keep it more simple, by just mentioning the subjects that we are actually discussing, humans. But it's true that animals do feel and "think" in their own ways. We learn more and more about how animals and humans think all the time.

Hope that clarifies.

:)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Can you explain what it means in the English language when someone talks about VISION without sight?
Because I use ordinary English.

:)
and you are able to visualize an idea in your head.
after this life you will need to use your mind.....not your eyes

many have eyes and see not
 

Blastcat

Active Member
and you are able to visualize an idea in your head.
after this life you will need to use your mind.....not your eyes

many have eyes and see not


Oh totally agree. We can imagine all sorts of things.. Ghosts, goblins, demons, gods, boogey-men.... I don't need my eyes to imagine things.
So, when you say that we should "visualize" what it is you are talking about ( an anthropomorphic god, in this case ) and not use our EYES, you mean we should use our IMAGINATIONS.

The same could be said of Harry Potter. If we want to visualize the wizard doing magic, we should use our imagination, not our eyes.

Now I "see" that you are talking about an IMAGINARY god.
Thank you for the clarification.

:)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Oh totally agree. We can imagine all sorts of things.. Ghosts, goblins, demons, gods, boogey-men.... I don't need my eyes to imagine things.
So, when you say that we should "visualize" what it is you are talking about ( an anthropomorphic god ) and not use our EYES, you mean we should use our IMAGINATIONS.

The same could be said of Harry Potter. If we want to visualize the wizard doing magic, we should use our imagination, not our eyes.

Now I "see" that you are talking about. An IMAGINARY god.
Thank you for the clarification.

:)
imagination is the problem solving part of your mind
without it....there are no problems you can solve.....
and dragging you further through this conversation will be a problem.
 

Blastcat

Active Member
imagination is the problem solving part of your mind
without it....there are no problems you can solve.....
and dragging you further through this conversation will be a problem.


I totally agree. I need to imagine things. Then I need to check with reality to see if they are real or not, because I can easily fool myself into believing that what I imagine must be real. That could lead to disastrous errors.

I very much so try to separate what is merely imaginary from what is imagined and REAL.

:)
 
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