Thief
Rogue Theologian
no wonder you have difficulties about God.....
you can't see past the words....
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Verifiable evidence for creationism?
- Thread starter leibowde84
- Start date
you can't see past the words....
Blastcat
Active Member
Ok, That's interesting.
Those characteristics are anthropomorphisms. When we ascribe HUMAN characteristics to a concept, like "thinking" and "feeling", for example, we are anthropomorphizing the concept. Feelings are what humans have.
Does your God have a human body to feel with, or a brain to think?
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Blastcat
Active Member
If we want to understand the concept of "God" we must use words. If we want to understand each other about ANY concept, unfortunately, we cannot GO "past" the words. That's all we got to communicate complex concepts with. I like going to churches with wonderful art and look at that. I love religious music too, but art does not convey complex concepts very well at all.
For that, we need words.
Humans have feelings that they can't really explain very well. This is a common human trait. So, some people invent a projection of their feelings onto a .. "God" perhaps. The God as projection is usually anthropomorphized for that reason. We want to "look" at our best selves personified ... Unfortunately, all too many people take these ideas entirely too far. Naive people confuse metaphor for what it's supposed to represent.
Words are like that... words are merely shortcuts to communicate with one another about ideas that we want to represent. When the communication breaks down, there is NO understanding. Saying that we somehow have to go "past" the words is to say that no conversation is possible.
I can assure you that communication, even about complex concepts such as "God" IS possible.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
metaphor and parablesIf we want to understand the concept of "God" we must use words. If we want to understand each other about ANY concept, unfortunately, we cannot GO "past" the words. That's all we got to communicate complex concepts with. I like going to churches with wonderful art and look at that. I love religious music too, but art does not convey complex concepts very well at all.
For that, we need words.
Humans have feelings that they can't really explain very well. This is a common human trait. So, some people invent a projection of their feelings onto a .. "God" perhaps. The God as projection is usually anthropomorphized for that reason. We want to "look" at our best selves personified ... Unfortunately, all too many people take these ideas entirely too far. Naive people confuse metaphor for what it's supposed to represent.
Words are like that... words are merely shortcuts to communicate with one another about ideas that we want to represent. When the communication breaks down, there is NO understanding. Saying that we somehow have to go "past" the words is to say that no conversation is possible.
I can assure you that communication, even about complex concepts such as "God" IS possible.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
you don't need eyes to seeOk, That's interesting.
Those characteristics are anthropomorphisms. When we ascribe HUMAN characteristics to a concept, like "thinking" and "feeling", for example, we are anthropomorphizing the concept. Feelings are what humans have.
Does your God have a human body to feel with, or a brain to think?
you don't need flesh to feel
and sooner than later......It must be that way
Blastcat
Active Member
Most people kinda need eyes to see with and flesh to feel with. What are you talking about?
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Blastcat
Active Member
When you use the term "Pigeon Chess", do you mean it in the same way as "Religious Trolling"?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
afterlife
if that's not in your repertoire ....ooops
and it's getting late in this life to make prep for the next
oh well
idea
Question Everything
72 pages... has this thread gone round the fine tuning argument? How about the existence of conscience/mind/self-awareness/intelligence?
Has it yet discussed the meaning of the word "create" that create does not mean to make something out of nothing, but instead means to organize what eternally exists?
In "a" beginning God "organized" the heavens and the earth?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html
Has it yet discussed the meaning of the word "create" that create does not mean to make something out of nothing, but instead means to organize what eternally exists?
In "a" beginning God "organized" the heavens and the earth?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html
AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
Ok, That's interesting.
Those characteristics are anthropomorphisms. When we ascribe HUMAN characteristics to a concept, like "thinking" and "feeling", for example, we are anthropomorphizing the concept. Feelings are what humans have.
Does your God have a human body to feel with, or a brain to think?
I hate to play devil's advocate, but don't all (or most) animals think and feel? I wouldn't really call it a human-exclusive trait as it's quite a broad trait. Though I agree that the god of the Bible definitely has a plethora of human traits. No doubt about it.
idea
Question Everything
Not just traits - He is human - with physical hands, face, back, toes, fingers - He's a human, He is our Heavenly "Father", we are actually His children etc. etc.
God, Body of, Corporeal Nature
See also Man, a Spirit Child of Heavenly Father ; Man, Physical Creation of
- God created man in his own image: Gen. 1:27 . ( Moses 2:27 . )
- God created man, in the likeness of God made he him: Gen. 5:1 .
- in the image of God made he man: Gen. 9:6 .
- Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing: Gen. 18:33 .
- I have seen God face to face: Gen. 32:30 .
- they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet: Ex. 24:10 .
- written with the finger of God: Ex. 31:18 . ( Deut. 9:10 . )
- Lord spake unto Moses face to face: Ex. 33:11 .
- thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen: Ex. 33:23 .
- With him will I speak mouth to mouth: Num. 12:8 .
- a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son: Matt. 3:17 .
- every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God: Matt. 4:4 .
- a voice out of the cloud: Matt. 17:5 .
- for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have: Luke 24:39 .
- he that hath seen me hath seen the Father: John 14:9 .
- the Son of man standing on the right hand of God: Acts 7:56 .
- predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son: Rom. 8:29 .
- Christ, who is the image of God: 2 Cor. 4:4 .
- Who, being in the form of God: Philip. 2:6 .
- our vile body … fashioned like unto his glorious body: Philip. 3:21 .
- Who is the image of the invisible God: Col. 1:15 .
- the express image of his person: Heb. 1:3 .
- men, which are made after the similitude of God: James 3:9 .
- when he shall appear, we shall be like him: 1 Jn. 3:2 .
- they shall see his face: Rev. 22:4 .
Blastcat
Active Member
What does this comment have to do with what you were replying to?
You said that
"you don't need eyes to see
you don't need flesh to feel"
I was saying that you anthropomorphize your god to have HUMAN characteristics, and then you say that we don't need eyes to see or flesh to feel. Perhaps you are talking about imagination. We can close our eyes and imagine that we see.. and imagine that we feel. We can IMAGINE a whole lot of things, like gods.
I asked if you could explain how it is we can see without eyes, or feel without flesh. You answer by talking about the AFTER life.
Changing the subject so radically does NOT make your case more credible.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Blastcat
Active Member
Yes, of course, I didn't include animals in order to keep it more simple, by just mentioning the subjects that we are actually discussing, humans. But it's true that animals do feel and "think" in their own ways. We learn more and more about how animals and humans think all the time.
Hope that clarifies.
Blastcat
Active Member
Can you explain what it means in the English language when someone talks about VISION without sight?
Because I use ordinary English.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and you are able to visualize an idea in your head.Can you explain what it means in the English language when someone talks about VISION without sight?
Because I use ordinary English.
after this life you will need to use your mind.....not your eyes
many have eyes and see not
Blastcat
Active Member
Oh totally agree. We can imagine all sorts of things.. Ghosts, goblins, demons, gods, boogey-men.... I don't need my eyes to imagine things.
So, when you say that we should "visualize" what it is you are talking about ( an anthropomorphic god, in this case ) and not use our EYES, you mean we should use our IMAGINATIONS.
The same could be said of Harry Potter. If we want to visualize the wizard doing magic, we should use our imagination, not our eyes.
Now I "see" that you are talking about an IMAGINARY god.
Thank you for the clarification.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
imagination is the problem solving part of your mindOh totally agree. We can imagine all sorts of things.. Ghosts, goblins, demons, gods, boogey-men.... I don't need my eyes to imagine things.
So, when you say that we should "visualize" what it is you are talking about ( an anthropomorphic god ) and not use our EYES, you mean we should use our IMAGINATIONS.
The same could be said of Harry Potter. If we want to visualize the wizard doing magic, we should use our imagination, not our eyes.
Now I "see" that you are talking about. An IMAGINARY god.
Thank you for the clarification.
without it....there are no problems you can solve.....
and dragging you further through this conversation will be a problem.
Blastcat
Active Member
I totally agree. I need to imagine things. Then I need to check with reality to see if they are real or not, because I can easily fool myself into believing that what I imagine must be real. That could lead to disastrous errors.
I very much so try to separate what is merely imaginary from what is imagined and REAL.