Views on Islam?

[Theweirdtophat]

If I'm not mistaken Muslims treated Jews better than the Christians did back in olden times when Jews lived in Muslim majority nations and weren't persecuted or harmed nearly as much as the Christian majority countries.


But the past is the past. People will find reasons to hate Islam because of what their ancestors did. The ones responsible have been dead for a thousand years. Don't persecute people for what their ancestors did.

 

[leibowde84]

I can't.

One can only judge a fruit, when it is ripe. One can not judge a fruit when it is rotten. Christian civilisations may be "better" than islamic today, although I wouldn't judge so fast. What about slavery, racism, all the wars in europe, holocaust, cold war when we almost blew up earth, exploitation of other countries and all the genocides, that happened in the last 200 years?
But what was the Islam like, when it was ripe, when the west was in its most disgusting time, the dark age?

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am in no way saying that the Islamic world today is good. But Muhammad has made a wild arab nation without morals, into one of the most glorious nations with most morals. There was a time, when even no-muslims were very happy, to live in the islamic countries.

What happened then is another story. But I believe that every created thing gets old and dies. Religions are no exception.

Fair enough, I guess. I could care less about "the golden time of Islam" or Christianity for that matter. I am only concerned with the value of the religions today and moving forward. I would disagree that Muhammad's community was the most moral, as there were some terrible things being done in the name of religion (marrying children for one thing ... and killing apostates), but that is another discussion.

 

[Augustus]

I
But what was the Islam like, when it was ripe, when the west was in its most disgusting time, the dark age?

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am in no way saying that the Islamic world today is good. But Muhammad has made a wild arab nation without morals, into one of the most glorious nations with most morals.

The golden age started around 150 years after Muhammed, around 120 years after the end of the Rashidun Caliphates. These are considered the age that Islam was most 'ripe'.

What made the time of the Rashidun the 'most moral' time? It was a time of conquest and brutal civil war.

The Golden age was mostly a product of the combined wealth of the richest part of the world being under Muslim rule, as wealthy cultures always progress the most. the Golden age was more a product of gold than religion. The relative tolerance was a contributory factor, but ultimately, it's all about the money...

The 'traditional' Islamic narrative is far more hagiography than actual history.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hello to all.
I have read all 5 pages in this thread and one thing for sure the majority(not all) has a very negative outlook for the religion of Islam.
Its either they lack understanding for the teachings of Islam or they are biased.
Now let me ask you all a few questions so as to test your understanding of Islam.
1.What is the Islamic concept of life on earth?
2.What is the social system of Islam on earth?
3.What is the moral system of Islam on earth?
4.What is the difference between Islamic concept of spirituality and that of other religions and ideologies?

Note if cannot answer the above 4 simple questions then your views on Islam are all meaningless.
Peace
faroukfarouk

 

[Augustus]

Hello to all.
I have read all 5 pages in this thread and one thing for sure the majority(not all) has a very negative outlook for the religion of Islam.
Its either they lack understanding for the teachings of Islam or they are biased.
Now let me ask you all a few questions so as to test your understanding of Islam.
1.What is the Islamic concept of life on earth?
2.What is the social system of Islam on earth?
3.What is the moral system of Islam on earth?
4.What is the difference between Islamic concept of spirituality and that of other religions and ideologies?

Note if cannot answer the above 4 simple questions then your views on Islam are all meaningless.
Peace
faroukfarouk

That's a bit like saying you can't discuss the Soviet Union unless you have read Marx, Engels and have a full understanding of dialectical materialism.

Would guess the answers are:

1. Man was created to worship Allah.
2. All people are equal before God and are judged on their piety.
3. That laid out in the Quran and Sunnah
4. That Muslims believe theirs is in some way unique

 

[leibowde84]

Hello to all.
I have read all 5 pages in this thread and one thing for sure the majority(not all) has a very negative outlook for the religion of Islam.
Its either they lack understanding for the teachings of Islam or they are biased.
Now let me ask you all a few questions so as to test your understanding of Islam.
1.What is the Islamic concept of life on earth?
2.What is the social system of Islam on earth?
3.What is the moral system of Islam on earth?
4.What is the difference between Islamic concept of spirituality and that of other religions and ideologies?

Note if cannot answer the above 4 simple questions then your views on Islam are all meaningless.
Peace
faroukfarouk

Just out of curiosity, does every Muslim adhere to the answers you are requesting?
Also, I think that the theology, or what Islam is meant to look like, is far less important than what we see in the real world. It is very easy to defend Islam in theory, but I think that it is more relevant to explain how it is applied today in the real world. I've read the Quran several times, and although I don't agree with everything in it, I think there is an immense value inherent to it. That being said, it's value is irrelevant if Muslims do not practice it truly. Wouldn't you agree?

So, my main question is, why do you think that knowledge of theology is important when discussing Islam in the real world. If adherents don't follow the teachings, then what importance do they have?

 

[faroukfarouk]

That's a bit like saying you can't discuss the Soviet Union unless you have read Marx, Engels and have a full understanding of dialectical materialism.

Would guess the answers are:

1. Man was created to worship Allah.
2. All people are equal before God and are judged on their piety.
3. That laid out in the Quran and Sunnah
4. That Muslims believe theirs is in some way unique

Well if you going to view Islam without understanding whats are its objectivity on earth then its obvious your views will be biased.
Now if you going to guess answers then it simply confirms you lack knowledge on the subject of Islam.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yes, but it is rarely the case. According to the Encyclopedia of Wars (Phillips and Axelrod, Facts on File, December 2004) of the 1,763 major conflicts in recorded history, only 123 of them were classified as having been fought over religious differences. That’s just under 7 percent.

That doesn't really defeat my point. I said religion can cause wars; not that it did so regularly.

A defensive war is justifiable. What passes for common knowledge of such a twisted version of history that even president Obama has been duped. The Crusades were necessary, as revealed by middle age historians. If you remove the quest for power from the equation there is very little "religion" left.

How does that apply here? The Crusades were an invasion of a foreign land; quite the opposite of 'defensive' by anyone's definition. Actually they were an invasion of multiple foreign powers because it wasn't just the Saracens who were attacked: the Fourth Crusade betrayed and sacked Constantinople. Care to explain how betraying your allies, attacking and laying waste to their capital is defensive in nature? When the Crusaders came raiding everyone who wasn't a Catholic suffered; Muslim and Orthodox Christian alike.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Just out of curiosity, does every Muslim adhere to the answers you are requesting?
Also, I think that the theology, or what Islam is meant to look like, is far less important than what we see in the real world. It is very easy to defend Islam in theory, but I think that it is more relevant to explain how it is applied today in the real world. I've read the Quran several times, and although I don't agree with everything in it, I think there is an immense value inherent to it. That being said, it's value is irrelevant if Muslims do not practice it truly. Wouldn't you agree?

So, my main question is, why do you think that knowledge of theology is important when discussing Islam in the real world. If adherents don't follow the teachings, then what importance do they have?

If you understand the OP.
It states "Views on Islam" and not views on Islamic followers.
You are judging a book by its cover.
Now if you cannot answer my 4 simple questions then your views are meaningless.

 

[Augustus]

Well if you going to view Islam without understanding whats are its objectivity on earth then its obvious your views will be biased.
Now if you going to guess answers then it simply confirms you lack knowledge on the subject of Islam.

While 4 was facetious, my answers to 1 to 3 are correct. Unless you would like to explain why they are wrong...

The questions are a bit ambiguous, so tell me what was wrong in my answers.

 

[leibowde84]

Well if you going to view Islam without understanding whats are its objectivity on earth then its obvious your views will be biased.
Now if you going to guess answers then it simply confirms you lack knowledge on the subject of Islam.

I understand your point, but Islam (just like every other religion in the world) has two factors subject to scrutiny.

1. Theology or "objectives on earth", as you put it.
AND
2. How that theology is practiced and what effect the religion has on the world.

I would say that having knowledge of both is necessary, although I don't think your questions were fair because I know that not all Muslims would answer them the same way, and you are certainly in no position to say who is right and who is wrong (interpretations, not facts). That being said, I think it is completely reasonable to specifically judge the real world effects (not the objectives) that the theology has caused. Do you not think this is accurate? If not, why not?

 

[leibowde84]

If you understand the OP.
It states "Views on Islam" and not views on Islamic followers.
You are judging a book by its cover.
Now if you cannot answer my 4 simple questions then your views are meaningless.

You failed to answer my question. Would every Muslim answer these questions the same way? From my understanding of Islam, there are many interpretations providing different answers to these questions. Am I mistaken?

 

[faroukfarouk]

While 4 was facetious, my answers to 1 to 3 are correct. Unless you would like to explain why they are wrong...

The questions are a bit ambiguous, so tell me what was wrong in my answers.

I never stated that your answers are wrong nor did i state they right.All i stated is about your guessing game.
Now what is ambiguous about those simple questions.there is an old saying that a fool lives to eat and a wise man eats to live. But then the question remains: for what purpose does the wise man live?
Living is not an end by itself. There has to be a purpose for man to live for.
So my 4 questions relate to what is this purpose?

 

[leibowde84]

I never stated that your answers are wrong nor did i state they right.All i stated is about your guessing game.
Now what is ambiguous about those simple questions.there is an old saying that a fool lives to eat and a wise man eats to live. But then the question remains: for what purpose does the wise man live?
Living is not an end by itself. There has to be a purpose for man to live for.
So my 4 questions relate to what is this purpose?

Can you please answer my question. It's a pretty simple one. Do all Muslims agree on the answers to these questions?

 

[faroukfarouk]

You failed to answer my question. Would every Muslim answer these questions the same way? From my understanding of Islam, there are many interpretations providing different answers to these questions. Am I mistaken?

If any Muslim differs so far as his or her purpose on earth then he lacks understanding on the teachings of his religion.

 

[leibowde84]

If any Muslim differs so far as his or her purpose on earth then he lacks understanding on the teachings of his religion.

So, then not all Muslims would agree with your answers, and you explanation is that they are wrong and you are right, correct? If this is the case, it is completely unfair to expect anyone to be able to answer your questions correctly (according to your interpretation of Islam), even if they WERE Muslim themselves. See what I mean?

Whenever anyone claims that their interpretation of a theology is right and other's are misguided, they are usually undoubtedly wrong.

 

[Izdaari]

I'm a supporter of progressive, tolerant and peaceful Muslims, and an opponent of radical, violent, misogynistic Muslims.

 

[JoStories]

They're a diverse group of people (with their share of good and bad) and it's simply another religion. I don't practice it, because I don't agree with it (and it wouldn't agree with me), but I have nothing inherently against it.

Well said and that would be my position as well. I have many colleagues who are PhD level nurses who, actively practice their faith and also are some of the nicest people I know.

 

[Baladas]

I do my best to avoid making blanket judgements of entire groups of people.
As others have said: Some are good, some are not. After all, we are all human.

That said, I do have issues with most forms of the religion of Islam itself.
The issues that I have are similar to the issues that I have with Christianity.

It is dogmatic and rigid, and I consider that dangerous to the human mind.

 

[Ibn_Gafar]

1.6 BILLION, 23.6 % of the worlds population are islamic.
10% are said to be radical that engage in murdering infidels. That would be you and me.
Many are Al Queda and ISIS or many of the other groups that engage in terrorism though out the world.
That does not bode well for infidels or even other muslims that are not the right kind of muslims.
I feel troubled for the vast population of dedicated muslims who practice the religion in a peaceful and loving way.
It can't be easy for those dedicated believers when the world sees the horrific crimes committed by radical muslims.
How would you feels if you are a Christian knowing that thousands of radical Christians murder people for disrespecting your saints or religious leaders?
When was the last time a nun committed suicide by blowing themselves up in a subway or a church meeting, killing innocent children?
I would feel horrible if a Christian committed heinous crimes. I might even deny my association with a religous group that murdered people for making a cartoon of a saint or religious person.

Dear brother, I think you need to read about islamic history and its basics much more, my friend: i see a huge misunderstanding from your side, for your information, it's not allowed in islam at all to force anyone to be muslim, believe me, most of Muslims don't agree with ISIS and what they are doing, it have written on the Holly Qur'an 1436 years ago the following in Sura titled "The Unbelievers" :

In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Most Merciful
[109.1] Say: 'O unbelievers,
[109.2] I do not worship what you worship,
[109.3] nor do you worship what I worship.
[109.4] Nor am I worshiping what you have worshipped,
[109.5] neither will you worship what I worship.
[109.6] To you your religion, and to me my Religion. '