Vote on your beliefs regarding baptism,

[Desert Snake]

The questions are relatively simple, if two answers might contradict each other, choose the one that takes precedence in importance, to you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The questions are relatively simple, if two answers might contradict each other, choose the one that takes precedence in importance, to you.

This is a good topic to bring up in comparative religion if you like. Since is not a debate forum, other people can chime in if youd like a more diverse christian opinion.

What say you?

 

[JR Miller]

Baptism is a symbolic act of entering into the faith, but it need not be the only one. Too many people get caught up in the traditions of the church and miss the point. It is similar to what Jesus said about the sabbath; it was made for man, not the man for it. The point of baptism is that you are washing away the past and being born again in faith. Getting yourself wet isn't the only way to do that.

 

[Desert Snake]

This is a good topic to bring up in comparative religion if you like. Since is not a debate forum, other people can chime in if youd like a more diverse christian opinion.

What say you?

Christianity is a very broad term. Even people like myself, who have no creed, aren't baptized, etc., can be in this category for various reasons of practicality. I'm not quite sure what people who have absolutely no connection to Xianity, would/could offer in opinion or debate, here. Baptism is pretty specific. Perhaps you can explain your comment further.

 

[Desert Snake]

Baptism is a symbolic act of entering into the faith, but it need not be the only one. Too many people get caught up in the traditions of the church and miss the point. It is similar to what Jesus said about the sabbath; it was made for man, not the man for it. The point of baptism is that you are washing away the past and being born again in faith. Getting yourself wet isn't the only way to do that.

I agree. I think that over emphasis on these things can actually be detrimental to ones belief, and probably is, for many Xians.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christianity is a very broad term. Even people like myself, who have no creed, aren't baptized, etc., can be in this category for various reasons of practicality. I'm not quite sure what people who have absolutely no connection to Xianity, would/could offer in opinion or debate, here. Baptism is pretty specific. Perhaps you can explain your comment further.

I didn't know if it was appropriate for my to comment here. I'm Christian by baptism and I still hold a belief in Christ's divinity and salvation through the Church sacraments. There are personal reasons (and others I can talk about elsewhere) that I don't follow Christ anymore. For me, I will always be a Christian because I took those vows. Not everyone has similar opinions.

Other than that, my view? Let me see....

I chose about five. A Christian must be baptized to be Christian; a Christian is baptized in water and in Jesus; anyone can baptize; and Jesus commanded (which I'd say required?) baptism for all Christians.

Christians must be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be Christian or born again, rather. They should be baptized in water as with Jesus, who was baptized likewise by John (I believe?). Anyone can baptize someone because being born again does not depend on who is baptizing a person but the person's heart who is being baptized. I'd say Jesus did recommend baptism for all Christians, or maybe required, because without the Holy Spirit, you cannot be born again.

Since I do agree with the Church on the sacraments, I'd say that water baptism mirrors how Jesus was baptized. Baptist Churches also use water as other protestant Churches. As for it being Holy, very different discussion. I'd say I would feel more comfortable if someone from the Church (any Church) baptize me because I value elders of the Church. I find authority in religious traditions a good asset in personal growth in Christ because people have someone (a person) to turn to to help them in their relationship with God instead of trying to push through solo. Christianity is a community faith and cultural; so, regardless the denomination, communion between people is what Christ wanted as an example, through His apostles and their missionary work.

That's my take....I have to split. Of course, I'd be back later.

 

[Desert Snake]

I didn't know if it was appropriate for my to comment here. I'm Christian by baptism and I still hold a belief in Christ's divinity and salvation through the Church sacraments. There are personal reasons (and others I can talk about elsewhere) that I don't follow Christ anymore. For me, I will always be a Christian because I took those vows. Not everyone has similar opinions.

Other than that, my view? Let me see....

I chose about five. A Christian must be baptized to be Christian; a Christian is baptized in water and in Jesus; anyone can baptize; and Jesus commanded (which I'd say required?) baptism for all Christians.

Christians must be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be Christian or born again, rather. They should be baptized in water as with Jesus, who was baptized likewise by John (I believe?). Anyone can baptize someone because being born again does not depend on who is baptizing a person but the person's heart who is being baptized. I'd say Jesus did recommend baptism for all Christians, or maybe required, because without the Holy Spirit, you cannot be born again.

Since I do agree with the Church on the sacraments, I'd say that water baptism mirrors how Jesus was baptized. Baptist Churches also use water as other protestant Churches. As for it being Holy, very different discussion. I'd say I would feel more comfortable if someone from the Church (any Church) baptize me because I value elders of the Church. I find authority in religious traditions a good asset in personal growth in Christ because people have someone (a person) to turn to to help them in their relationship with God instead of trying to push through solo. Christianity is a community faith and cultural; so, regardless the denomination, communion between people is what Christ wanted as an example, through His apostles and their missionary work.

That's my take....I have to split. Of course, I'd be back later.

Ok, here is a question. You seem to have taken the position that an unbaptized person is not 'saved'. So, am I not saved? What about all non-Xians? Are they not saved?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ok, here is a question. You seem to have taken the position that an unbaptized person is not 'saved'. So, am I not saved? What about all non-Xians? Are they not saved?

Non christians are not saved by default. If you dont have faith in Christ, how is one His follower?

With baptism, I have to look into it more, but scripture says two things. To be born again, one needs faith. The other says we are to be baptised both in water and in spirit.

I dont know why, I just feel its incomplete without water immersion. I wont say you are not saved. All you need is faith. I just dont feel faith is a one minute conversion. We live our salvation. Its not a cake where you dump all the ingredients in the bowl at the same time. Its a life long conversion (its a lifestyle one lives) where one puts ingredients in one by one, and I believe baptism is part of it.

You are living your salvation (mixing the cake ingredients) just some denominations feel you need eggs, some say milk, some say seasoning. Others say you can make it with nothing because God will do it for you.

I say you are saved "and" need all the ingredients to live your salvation, baptism included.

POINT: In other words, sorry for the long post, having faith opens the door to the long journey in living your salvation. Baptism, repentence, saying you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, etc are ingredients that confirms it.

Makes sense?

 

[Desert Snake]

Non christians are not saved by default. If you dont have faith in Christ, how is one His follower?

With baptism, I have to look into it more, but scripture says two things. To be born again, one needs faith. The other says we are to be baptised both in water and in spirit.

I dont know why, I just feel its incomplete without water immersion. I wont say you are not saved. All you need is faith. I just dont feel faith is a one minute conversion. We live our salvation. Its not a cake where you dump all the ingredients in the bowl at the same time. Its a life long conversion (its a lifestyle one lives) where one puts ingredients in one by one, and I believe baptism is part of it.

You are living your salvation (mixing the cake ingredients) just some denominations feel you need eggs, some say milk, some say seasoning. Others say you can make it with nothing because God will do it for you.

I say you are saved "and" need all the ingredients to live your salvation, baptism included.

POINT: In other words, sorry for the long post, having faith opens the door to the long journey in living your salvation. Baptism, repentence, saying you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, etc are ingredients that confirms it.

Makes sense?

I think that baptism, it is Johns baptism, actually, was introducing new adherents into the body of Christ. Jesus was baptized, but it would be silly to say that He 'needed' to be baptized. Jesus gave instructions on how to introduce people to be His followers, and an outward sign, ie the baptism, was used for this purpose. The people getting baptized were literally changing religions, they were 'washing off', their old religion. The water baptism, Johns baptism, is therefore done in the name of either the trinity, or in Jesus's name. The thing is, there is no point in continually 'reaffirming' ones faith through baptism, as the 'contract', as it were, is actually personal. There is nothing stopping anyone from getting baptized, then going home and worshipping some foreign idol. Unless one is 'changing religions', or wishes to join a physical church, etc., the 'need' for baptism just isn't there. The ceremony is not inherently going to save anyone.
When Jesus says that one must be born in spirit and water, this does not mean, a ''physical'' baptism is ''doing'' something, like magic, it means that one must wash off their previous beliefs, and be saved by Jesus. It isn't literal. It's a symbolic ceremony.

 

[Desert Snake]

Non christians are not saved by default. If you dont have faith in Christ, how is one His follower?

Sure, not by default, but are they saved at all? Is it even possible for them to be saved?

With baptism, I have to look into it more, but scripture says two things. To be born again, one needs faith. The other says we are to be baptised both in water and in spirit.

I dont know why, I just feel its incomplete without water immersion. I wont say you are not saved. All you need is faith. I just dont feel faith is a one minute conversion. We live our salvation. Its not a cake where you dump all the ingredients in the bowl at the same time. Its a life long conversion (its a lifestyle one lives) where one puts ingredients in one by one, and I believe baptism is part of it.

You are living your salvation (mixing the cake ingredients) just some denominations feel you need eggs, some say milk, some say seasoning. Others say you can make it with nothing because God will do it for you.

I say you are saved "and" need all the ingredients to live your salvation, baptism included.

POINT: In other words, sorry for the long post, having faith opens the door to the long journey in living your salvation. Baptism, repentence, saying you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, etc are ingredients that confirms it.

Makes sense?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Sure, not by default, but are they saved at all? Is it even possible for them to be saved?

If they have faith in Christ by sacrificing their old self to live by action and by word a new life in Christ. These include baptism (becoming christian by being born again), repentence (of old ways to by thouht, speech, and action turn to new ways, by confirmation (saying he/she wants Jesus to be his/her Lord and Savior, y communion with other christians and with Christ to mirror the apostles by sharing the Word to others. Salvation is a lifestyle. A non christian cant be saved without giving up himself for Christ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand. I always felt if you are washing away something or changing religions there are actions involved. Of course Jesus didnt neex to be saved, and I think that is a perfect example of what other christians should "want" to do not as a goal to be saved but as part of their salvational life. I believe faith is a practice not just a belief.

You are right, christians dont need to reconfirm their commitments (if I read you right?). I relate it to repentence. When you say youre sorry and change your actions, by these actions and "continuing" these actions, not a one time event, you not only say youre sorry, you "show" it as well. So its not asking to be saved over again. Its living your repentence because you are thankful that God forgave you.

I also believe that people are not going to baptism and thinking the water is washing their sins. I hear people say because they belieeve im their heart, that prerequisite, the ceremony is not just smokes and mirrors. It is like a marriage. If you dont love the groom, the marriage doesnt make sense. If the bride and groom do love each other matrimony, that ceremony means a lot more than just puting a ring on a finger and saying I do.

Not everyone feel their growth in Christ through ceremony. When I took the sacraments, it was different. I didnt depend on the water to baptise me, I had already said "I do". Now Im ready for the ring to br placed ony finger and the final blessing.

I understand why people are uncomfortable with ritual worship. Its not for everyone, looking at it objectively. Subjectively, it is something that one has to experience "with" Christ.

I think that baptism, it is Johns baptism, actually, was introducing new adherents into the body of Christ. Jesus was baptized, but it would be silly to say that He 'needed' to be baptized. Jesus gave instructions on how to introduce people to be His followers, and an outward sign, ie the baptism, was used for this purpose. The people getting baptized were literally changing religions, they were 'washing off', their old religion. The water baptism, Johns baptism, is therefore done in the name of either the trinity, or in Jesus's name. The thing is, there is no point in continually 'reaffirming' ones faith through baptism, as the 'contract', as it were, is actually personal. There is nothing stopping anyone from getting baptized, then going home and worshipping some foreign idol. Unless one is 'changing religions', or wishes to join a physical church, etc., the 'need' for baptism just isn't there. The ceremony is not inherently going to save anyone.
When Jesus says that one must be born in spirit and water, this does not mean, a ''physical'' baptism is ''doing'' something, like magic, it means that one must wash off their previous beliefs, and be saved by Jesus. It isn't literal. It's a symbolic ceremony.

 

[Desert Snake]

I understand. I always felt if you are washing away something or changing religions there are actions involved. Of course Jesus didnt neex to be saved, and I think that is a perfect example of what other christians should "want" to do not as a goal to be saved but as part of their salvational life. I believe faith is a practice not just a belief.

You are right, christians dont need to reconfirm their commitments (if I read you right?). I relate it to repentence. When you say youre sorry and change your actions, by these actions and "continuing" these actions, not a one time event, you not only say youre sorry, you "show" it as well. So its not asking to be saved over again. Its living your repentence because you are thankful that God forgave you.

I also believe that people are not going to baptism and thinking the water is washing their sins. I hear people say because they belieeve im their heart, that prerequisite, the ceremony is not just smokes and mirrors. It is like a marriage. If you dont love the groom, the marriage doesnt make sense. If the bride and groom do love each other matrimony, that ceremony means a lot more than just puting a ring on a finger and saying I do.

Not everyone feel their growth in Christ through ceremony. When I took the sacraments, it was different. I didnt depend on the water to baptise me, I had already said "I do". Now Im ready for the ring to br placed ony finger and the final blessing.

I understand why people are uncomfortable with ritual worship. Its not for everyone, looking at it objectively. Subjectively, it is something that one has to experience "with" Christ.

Hmm, interesting. There is another aspect to this discussion as well, and that is the fact that not everyone is going to 'recognize' a baptism as legitimate, because it doesn't follow a prescribed methodology, a certain church, so forth. I believe that this also incorrect, since we recognize that the ceremony is an indication of a personal choice; so, what is more important, the persons commitment, or the specific ceremony? I would have to think that the persons commitment trumps some rigid idea of a precise method of baptism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In that respect, I agree. If youre performing, for lack of better words, the ceremony, you donso "with" Christ. It isnt I have faith, I dont need baptism. Likewise, its not, I was immersed in water, Im free from sin. Its a marriage o taking a commitment with the action.

Somewhat like saying, "Im sorry mom for taking
the cookies from the jar" And I give you a hug to show you im sorry.

I mean you can say Im sorry, and not show remorse. Not everyone is touchy feely. Likewise, you can hug your mom in silence but see the confused look because she had nonverbal confirmation that you are sorry.

It works hand in hand.

Hmm, interesting. There is another aspect to this discussion as well, and that is the fact that not everyone is going to 'recognize' a baptism as legitimate, because it doesn't follow a prescribed methodology, a certain church, so forth. I believe that this also incorrect, since we recognize that the ceremony is an indication of a personal choice; so, what is more important, the persons commitment, or the specific ceremony? I would have to think that the persons commitment trumps some rigid idea of a precise method of baptism.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Baptism is a symbolic act of entering into the faith, but it need not be the only one. Too many people get caught up in the traditions of the church and miss the point. It is similar to what Jesus said about the sabbath; it was made for man, not the man for it. The point of baptism is that you are washing away the past and being born again in faith. Getting yourself wet isn't the only way to do that.

I disagree entirely. It's not a tradition of the church, it's a directive from Christ. And it was not symbolic when He Himself was baptized. It was so significant that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit became audibly and visibly present then and there with God the Son. It is a sacrament in which all a person's sins are forgiven and which leaves an indelible mark on the soul. What greater point is there to miss?

 

[Norman]

The questions are relatively simple, if two answers might contradict each other, choose the one that takes precedence in importance, to you.

Norman: Hi disciple, I checked question #1 A christian must be baptized to be a Christian and question #7. an ordained minister, pastor, priest, has to baptize, as they have the authority. Good Post disciple.

 

[Desert Snake]

If they have faith in Christ by sacrificing their old self to live by action and by word a new life in Christ. These include baptism (becoming christian by being born again), repentence (of old ways to by thouht, speech, and action turn to new ways, by confirmation (saying he/she wants Jesus to be his/her Lord and Savior, y communion with other christians and with Christ to mirror the apostles by sharing the Word to others. Salvation is a lifestyle. A non christian cant be saved without giving up himself for Christ.

I don't believe that Johns baptism is a pre-requisite to being saved; I believe that that might be what some churches taught, or such. Either from a misinterpretation of Scripture, or a 'practical' matter, of noting adherents who were joining a church, and it was just assumed, that Johns baptism was necessary for salvation.

 

[Desert Snake]

Norman: Hi disciple, I checked question #1 A christian must be baptized to be a Christian and question #7. an ordained minister, pastor, priest, has to baptize, as they have the authority. Good Post disciple.

How would you define what a ''Christian'' is?

 

[Izdaari]

I voted and believe as follows::

Jesus commanded baptism, for all Christians.
Anyone can baptize.
It is not a salvation issue.

In truth, Jesus never explained why he wanted us to do it, so that remains unknown. It is sufficient for me that he said so.

I am Episcopalian and ELCA Lutheran (one church, two denominational affiliations).

 

[Desert Snake]

I voted and believe as follows::

Jesus commanded baptism, for all Christians.
Anyone can baptize.
It is not a salvation issue.

In truth, Jesus never explained why he wanted us to do it, so that remains unknown. It is sufficient for me that he said so.

I am Episcopalian and ELCA Lutheran (one church, two denominational affiliations).

Hi, where does Jesus command baptism?