Voter ID. Do you agree or disagree?

[Polymath257]

I've been talking about voter fraud and rigged elections for a long time. Much longer than 2016 and Donald Trump. By the way I'm not a trump supporter at all. But that doesn't mean he wasn't right about voter fraud existing. He clearly said all that to pander to people who know about voter fraud already. Unfortunately he fooled a lot of people into thinking he actually was on their side.

The establishment used trump to identify political opponents and try to lump them together under trump banner so they could be isolated and nullified. It's sad that some well meaning people fell for it but a lot of us didn't even come close.

This is my problem with democrats. If they really have nothing to worry about when it comes to voter fraud then why do they fight against reasonable security measures? They've riled all their base up with accusations of racism etc. to fight against reasonable security measures but they aren't hiding anything. Don't worry.

because those security measures *aren't* reasonable. They are targeted to specific parts of the population who are legitimate voters but might not vote the way those in power want.

Let's also connect this whole 'vote security' thing to the old poll taxes and methods to keep the 'wrong' people from voting.

Let's also connect this to gerrymandering of districts so that even if 60% of people in a state vote for one party, the delegation to Washington is mostly of the opposite party.

The *goal* is to disenfranchise people. THAT is what needs to be fought against. Vote security is simply a distraction, attempting to solve a non-existent problem.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Keep in mind you have to have drivers license/ID to drive. ...

Better, keep in mind the subtext: that, when it comes to voting, the fewer people the better, especially if the bulk of those excluded are people of color.

 

[Polymath257]

In another thread, For election fraud and conspiracy theory believers -- dump your evidence here!, someone posted this...

Here is evidence,
Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation
​

Very few cases overall. Cases of a man voting in his dead mother's name and his own, would not affect margins of victory.

​

I'll let you judge the extent of the people taking advantage. Another thing to keep in mind, anyone who tries to vote twice faces severe penalties if caught. To me, it is not worth the risk. Perhaps to some Trump Sheeples it is.

In any case, preventing large blocks of people from voting is by far more dangerous than some people voting twice.

A very nice documentation that voter fraud is incredibly rare.

Why the fuss? because to some, the wrong people are voting (even if they are legitimate citizens who have the right to vote).

 

[Subduction Zone]

Better, keep in mind the subtext: that, when it comes to voting, the fewer people the better, especially if the bulk of those excluded are people of color.

Well we wouldn't want the wrong people voting

Seriously, when I used to vote Republican it seemed reasonable to me, until I looked into the facts. Almost nonexistent voter fraud versus measurable numbers of the poor excluded from voting. Even though fair voting laws were bad for my party I could see why they were right. Preventing legal voters from voting is a bigger wrong than the possibility that a handful of people might have voted illegally.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well we wouldn't want the wrong people voting

Seriously, when I used to vote Republican it seemed reasonable to me, until I looked into the facts. Almost nonexistent voter fraud versus measurable numbers of the poor excluded from voting. Even though fair voting laws were bad for my party I could see why they were right. Preventing legal voters from voting is a bigger wrong than the possibility that a handful of people might have voted illegally.

For the record, I have zero problem with Voter ID so long as the acquisition of that ID, and the act of voting itself, are easily and readily available to everyone possessing the right to vote.

 

[Subduction Zone]

For the record, I have zero problem with Voter ID so long as the acquisition of that ID, and the act of voting itself, are easily and readily available to everyone possessing the right to vote.

I know, that is a reasonable compromise. That those advocating for voter ID laws is very telling. I lost my wallet once. It was a major pain in the donkey cancelling credit cards etc.. But I still had my car. I could still drive. And it took me less than an hour total to replace my driver's license. Now if I did not have a car I can see how I would have to add an hour to that. If I lived in a rural area it could be easily have taken all day without a car. Being poor can make even simple tasks much more difficult.

 

[HonestJoe]

Here in California, registering to vote is just a matter of filling out a little card. They distribute them all over at places like public libraries and local government offices. Activists distribute them on college campuses. There are questions on the card about whether one is voting age or a US citizen, but it's entirely an "honor" system regarding whether the answers are truthful.

Are you sure it's just an honour system? I saw someone earlier make the same assumption about the UK voter registration system but they obviously weren't aware that the UK registrations are checked against other government data and if something doesn't match up, they can contact the person and seek confirmation (for which photo ID might help but not as a be-all and end-all).

 

[ecco]

I've been talking about voter fraud and rigged elections for a long time.

Why? What evidence did you / do you have for "voter fraud and rigged elections". Sounds like another conspiracy theory.

The establishment used trump to identify political opponents and try to lump them together under trump banner so they could be isolated and nullified. It's sad that some well meaning people fell for it but a lot of us didn't even come close.

I have no idea what you are referring to. Would you care to state some specifics?

This is my problem with democrats. If they really have nothing to worry about when it comes to voter fraud then why do they fight against reasonable security measures? They've riled all their base up with accusations of racism etc. to fight against reasonable security measures but they aren't hiding anything.

The "voter Security" laws that are being passed in States like Texas and Alabama target black and low income people. How does reducing the number of hours people can vote add to security? How does curtailing mail-in ballots add to voter security. In Florida, there have been very liberal mail-in ballot laws in existence for years. Florida regularly elects Republicans (Scott, now DeSantis).

But if you think Democrats are hiding something, let's hear what it is. Then we can see if there is anything valid to your accusations or if they just fall into the vast conspiracy bucket.

 

[74x12]

because those security measures *aren't* reasonable. They are targeted to specific parts of the population who are legitimate voters but might not vote the way those in power want.

Let's also connect this whole 'vote security' thing to the old poll taxes and methods to keep the 'wrong' people from voting.

Let's also connect this to gerrymandering of districts so that even if 60% of people in a state vote for one party, the delegation to Washington is mostly of the opposite party.

The *goal* is to disenfranchise people. THAT is what needs to be fought against. Vote security is simply a distraction, attempting to solve a non-existent problem.

No, you haven't made that point. I think it's democrat fear mongering and conspiracy theory. All you democrats have done is say "you're racist" for wanting voter ID in so many words. I don't think that's a fact. I think it's more race baiting nonsense. Which makes me wonder why democrats are so opposed to the idea and what they really want to try to stop; because it's not racism. The fact is that minorities (who are actually US citizens) can get an ID as easily as anyone. In fact they probably have one already. They really need one to drive, to get a job and to do various things like going to the hospital or school.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, you haven't made that point. I think it's democrat fear mongering and conspiracy theory. All you democrats have done is say "you're racist" for wanting voter ID in so many words. I don't think that's a fact. I think it's more race baiting nonsense. Which makes me wonder why democrats are so opposed to the idea and what they really want to try to stop; because it's not racism. The fact is that minorities (who are actually US citizens) can get an ID as easily as anyone. In fact they probably have one already. They really need one to drive, to get a job and to do various things like going to the hospital or school.

That is false. We can show how voter ID laws hurt the poor and minorities, and how there is no problem in the first place.

The fact that most that support voter ID laws are racist is demonstrated by the fact that they do not care who they hurt by passing a bill that only creates problems and does not solve any.

 

[Polymath257]

No, you haven't made that point. I think it's democrat fear mongering and conspiracy theory. All you democrats have done is say "you're racist" for wanting voter ID in so many words. I don't think that's a fact. I think it's more race baiting nonsense. Which makes me wonder why democrats are so opposed to the idea and what they really want to try to stop; because it's not racism. The fact is that minorities (who are actually US citizens) can get an ID as easily as anyone. In fact they probably have one already. They really need one to drive, to get a job and to do various things like going to the hospital or school.

As opposed to Republican fear mongering, claiming there is massive fraud when there isn't? it is clear that the Republicans have a goal of suppressing the votes that opposed them. They have even been caught on tape saying as much.

 

[We Never Know]

I don't think the problem is with illegal voters. it is with *poor* voters. Those who do NOT have a car and don't drive, who do not have the time to stand in line at the DMV because they have two or three jobs, those that don't want to interact with the *state* government on a regular basis.

Most of the things on your list are things many people *never* do. I have *never* had a hunting or fishing license (which appear several times, I might add--what is a turkey tag??) or bought a fuel injector, firearm, or ammunition.

Others are simply to prove age (getting into bars, for example). Known customers don't need an ID for these. Picking up kids from school? Getting a doctor? When did you need a government issued ID for those?

And, again, many poor people don't have the IDs simply because they *cost money*. In that way, this whole effort smells of the 'poll tax' that was historically used to keep poor blacks from voting.

So, my conclusion is that the republicans don't want poor blacks to vote. They are putting up barriers to make it harder for them to do so.

Prove me wrong.

A deer tag and turkey tag are a separate tag from a hunting license. Same as a trout stamp is different than just a fishing license.

Rich or poor you have to show an ID to register to vote. Use that same ID when you vote.

Picking up kids from school and getting a Dr I had to show my drivers license to prove it was me. I have to give my drivers license and its scanned when I pick up pain meds.

 

[We Never Know]

Do you have to register in order to be allowed to vote?

Where I live, yes and and ID(usually a drivers license) has to be shown at that time.

 

[We Never Know]

If you think voting twice is worth the risk of getting convicted of a felony, you must really like the candidate.

But, yes, some people try to do it. In another thread, I showed that in the 2020 presidential election, virtually all the people who got caught and charged were Trump supporters. Members of cults do strange things. They even drink a powdered drink mix lethally laced with cyanide (Jonestown) or phenobarbital mixed with apple sauce or pudding and washed down with vodka (Heaven's Gate)



ETA


You get carded to buy alcohol? You buy several guns per week? You get a turkey hunting license several times every week? You get stopped for speeding several times every week?

Hmm. Do you exaggerate more than several times every week?

Yes "everything" should have been "several things" or somethings".

 

[Subduction Zone]

A deer tag and turkey tag are a separate tag from a hunting license. Same as a trout stamp is different than just a fishing license.

Rich or poor you have to show an ID to register to vote. Use that same ID when you vote.

Picking up kids from school and getting a Dr I had to show my drivers license to prove it was me. I have to give my drivers license and its scanned when I pick up pain meds.

Yes, ID is and should be required to register. Why do you think that there is a continued need to prove that one is who one says that he is? And I am betting that you do not understand why your deer and turkey tag analogy fails.

 

[We Never Know]

Yes, ID is and should be required to register. Why do you think that there is a continued need to prove that one is who one says that he is? And I am betting that you do not understand why your deer and turkey tag analogy fails.

"Yes, ID is and should be required to register." Exactly. And should be needed to vote.

They are seperate tags needed along with a hunting license to hunt them legally.
Go hunt deer or turkey without your tag (that you have to show any ID to get), even if you leave it at home and you will get a ticket for illegally hunting or possessing wildlife with out a proper tag even if you have your hunting license on you. Now you can clear that up in court later but at the time you are caught, you are illegal.

Edit...

Not to mention you need to re-register to vote if you've moved, if you've changed your name, if you'd like to switch political parties, or if you haven't voted in the past four years which requires an ID.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"Yes, ID is and should be required to register." Exactly. And should be needed to vote.

They are seperate tags needed along with a hunting license to hunt them legally.
Go hunt deer or turkey without your tag (that you have to show any ID to get), even if you leave it at home and you will get a ticket for illegally hunting or possessing wildlife with out a proper tag even if you have your hunting license on you. Now you can clear that up in court later but at the time you are caught, you are illegal.

Edit...

Not to mention you need to re-register to vote if you've moved, if you've changed your name, if you'd like to switch political parties, or if you haven't voted in the past four years which requires an ID.

And like I predicted you did not understand your failure. A deer or turkey tag is required because people can and will cheat. Even with those limitations it happens quite often. That does not appear to be the case when it comes to voters.

A reality show of:

Voting Cheaters

would have a very short run. When you stop more legal voters from voting than you prevent illegal votes the "cure" is worse than the disease.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But that's not voting, All while admitting that there is a lot of fraud going on with workers; yet you still deny there is any problem with voter fraud and you still want to claim that it should be even easier to vote (than getting a job) instead of demanding a little bit of security against obvious rampant voter fraud. Just listen to yourself sometimes please.

What ID do you need to get photo ID where you are?

 

[metis]

So why is anyone against voter ID?

All states have voter ID procedures but the process is not uniform. Nor should it be since the Constitution leaves that up to the states. Anyone who tries to vote illegally isn't dealing with a full deck since getting caught is a federal crime in a national election, and I believe that can get one up to five years in a slammer.

This right-wing hyperbole about voter ID is just propaganda since even Pubs who handled the electioneering process both in the states and in the fed have publicly said that this was probably the "cleanest" federal election in American history. However, if one only watches the Fox Propaganda Channel they probably aren't aware of this-- and a lot of other things as well.

 

[Kooky]

Where I live, yes and and ID(usually a drivers license) has to be shown at that time.

So why not use that register to check whether somebody's vote is valid?