Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

You will need to take that argument up with the Jews.
Good luck with that.

Don't be angry, please.
G-d is for all nations of the worlds, He is not racial. So it is against His attributes to favour one nation against the others unless they transgress against a nation.
I never restricted the Jews from joining the discussion. They are always welcome to defend their religion.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

So you claim.
But then, it is not your Holy Book.
I bet you would feel completely different about it were that in your Koran.
Because God said...

Please give an example.
Regards

 

[McBell]

Don't be angry, please.
G-d is for all nations of the worlds, He is not racial. So it is against His attributes to favour one nation against the others unless they transgress against a nation.
I never restricted the Jews from joining the discussion. They are always welcome to defend their religion.
Regards

I am not the least bit angry.
No idea why you would even think I was.

God has favoured various tribes/races/groups of people all through out the Bible.
Don't even get me started on the Koran.

 

[McBell]

Please give an example.
Regards

Give an example of what?
What are you talking about?

 

[leibowde84]

Science has got no business to deny existence of G-d.
Regards

It doesn't deny OR acknowledge the existence of God. Science doesn't have any stance on the issue.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Aruba:

Island country: Location
Aruba, a tiny Dutch Caribbean island off the coast of Venezuela, has dry, sunny weather, blond beaches and gentle surf. Constant trade winds keep things cool and cause the divi-divi trees to slope southwesterly. European influence shows in both its architecture, in which Dutch gables mingle with tropical pastels, and language, with English, Dutch and Spanish spoken alongside the local tongue, Papiamento.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=location+of+Aruba

This article is about the demographic features of the population of Aruba, including population density,ethnicity, education level, health of the populace, economic status, religious affiliations and other aspects of the population. Having poor soil and aridity, Aruba was saved from plantation economics and the slave trade. In 1515, the Spanish transported the entire population to Hispaniola to work in the copper mines; most were allowed to return when the mines were tapped out. The Dutch, who took control a century later, left the Arawaks to graze livestock, using the island as a source of meat for other Dutch possessions in the Caribbean. The Arawak heritage is stronger on Aruba than on most Caribbean islands. No full-blooded aboriginals remain, but the features of the islanders clearly indicate their genetic heritage. The majority of the population is descended mostly from Arawak Indians and Dutch and to a lesser extent other Europeans and West African ancestors. Recently there has been substantial immigration to the island from neighboring Latin American and Caribbean nations, attracted by the lure of well-paying jobs.

The two official languages are the Dutch language and the predominant, national language Papiamento, which is classified as a creole language. This creole language is formed primarily from 16th century Portuguese, and several other languages. Spanish and Englishare also spoken. Islanders can often speak four or more languages and are mostly Roman Catholic.

Population[edit]

The estimated mid-year population of 2014 is 103,400 (medium fertility scenario of The 2012 Revison of the World Population Prospects).[2]

Religions[edit]
· Roman Catholic- 80.8%,· Evangelist- 4.1%,· Protestant- 2.5%,· Jehovah's Witness- 1.5%,· Methodist- 1.2%,· Jewish- 0.2%,· Other - 5.1%
· unspecified or unknown - 5.3 (2000 census)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Aruba#Religions
Prayer Room
Islamic Center of Aruba offers muslims a prayer room open only for Jumah at 3:00pm on Friday’s.
Prayer facilities are available for both men and women, unfortunately wudhu area is not available.
Located in Downtown, right across el gaucho grill restaurant and next to Check Point Color in Colombusstraat.
Please call anyone of the following for directions:
1. Abdullah: 297-7361986
2. Shafiq: 297- 7355471
3. Ahmad: 297 -7440039
4. Luqman: 297- 6418342
If you are unable to reach above mentioned persons, visit Dura Home Center and ask for the owner Abdullah, he will inform you the prayer facilities.
For more information: http://www.islamicfinder.org/getitWorld.php?id=38050, https://arubamuslimguide.wordpress.com/

Country :Total Population :Muslim Percentage : Number Of Muslims
Aruba : 70,007 : 5% : 3,500
http://www.ilaam.net/intl/popstats.html

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Aruba.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Aruba:

Island country: Location
Aruba, a tiny Dutch Caribbean island off the coast of Venezuela, has dry, sunny weather, blond beaches and gentle surf. Constant trade winds keep things cool and cause the divi-divi trees to slope southwesterly. European influence shows in both its architecture, in which Dutch gables mingle with tropical pastels, and language, with English, Dutch and Spanish spoken alongside the local tongue, Papiamento.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=location+of+Aruba

This article is about the demographic features of the population of Aruba, including population density,ethnicity, education level, health of the populace, economic status, religious affiliations and other aspects of the population. Having poor soil and aridity, Aruba was saved from plantation economics and the slave trade. In 1515, the Spanish transported the entire population to Hispaniola to work in the copper mines; most were allowed to return when the mines were tapped out. The Dutch, who took control a century later, left the Arawaks to graze livestock, using the island as a source of meat for other Dutch possessions in the Caribbean. The Arawak heritage is stronger on Aruba than on most Caribbean islands. No full-blooded aboriginals remain, but the features of the islanders clearly indicate their genetic heritage. The majority of the population is descended mostly from Arawak Indians and Dutch and to a lesser extent other Europeans and West African ancestors. Recently there has been substantial immigration to the island from neighboring Latin American and Caribbean nations, attracted by the lure of well-paying jobs.

The two official languages are the Dutch language and the predominant, national language Papiamento, which is classified as a creole language. This creole language is formed primarily from 16th century Portuguese, and several other languages. Spanish and Englishare also spoken. Islanders can often speak four or more languages and are mostly Roman Catholic.

Population[edit]

The estimated mid-year population of 2014 is 103,400 (medium fertility scenario of The 2012 Revison of the World Population Prospects).[2]

Religions[edit]
· Roman Catholic- 80.8%,· Evangelist- 4.1%,· Protestant- 2.5%,· Jehovah's Witness- 1.5%,· Methodist- 1.2%,· Jewish- 0.2%,· Other - 5.1%
· unspecified or unknown - 5.3 (2000 census)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Aruba#Religions
Prayer Room
Islamic Center of Aruba offers muslims a prayer room open only for Jumah at 3:00pm on Friday’s.
Prayer facilities are available for both men and women, unfortunately wudhu area is not available.
Located in Downtown, right across el gaucho grill restaurant and next to Check Point Color in Colombusstraat.
Please call anyone of the following for directions:
1. Abdullah: 297-7361986
2. Shafiq: 297- 7355471
3. Ahmad: 297 -7440039
4. Luqman: 297- 6418342
If you are unable to reach above mentioned persons, visit Dura Home Center and ask for the owner Abdullah, he will inform you the prayer facilities.
For more information: http://www.islamicfinder.org/getitWorld.php?id=38050, https://arubamuslimguide.wordpress.com/

Country :Total Population :Muslim Percentage : Number Of Muslims
Aruba : 70,007 : 5% : 3,500
http://www.ilaam.net/intl/popstats.html

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Aruba.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

What does this have to do with how Muhammad spread this religion initially?

 

[McBell]

What does this have to do with how Muhammad spread this religion initially?

It is his counting the hits (stories that did not involve violence) and ignoring the misses (stories that do include violence).
He is well versed in sticking his fingers in his ears screaming LA LA LA LA LA

 

[Flankerl]

It is his counting the hits (stories that did not involve violence) and ignoring the misses (stories that do include violence).
He is well versed in sticking his fingers in his ears screaming LA LA LA LA LA

Yeah but that's what he has been doing from the very first day he started posting on RF.

I mean yeah from time to time I also end up in some ridiculous "discussion" with him until I realise how stupid I am. But this thread is really too much. Its like some people expect an actual thought out answer from him. And this confuses me terribly.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yeah but that's what he has been doing from the very first day he started posting on RF.
I mean yeah from time to time I also end up in some ridiculous "discussion" with him until I realise how stupid I am. But this thread is really too much. Its like some people expect an actual thought out answer from him. And this confuses me terribly.

Islam is peaceful and has flourished naturally, like a fragrant flower it has blossomed in the world. Force and coercion done by the politicians do hamper its spread sometimes. I am sorry that Judaism has been shrinking due to its becoming un-natural as they deviated from the religion of Moses and Abraham and did not accept Muhammad to become naturally spreading. Sorry again, I can't do anything about it, the Jews have to reform Judaism themselves to become spreading.

Like Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and spreading fast peacefully:

Ahmadiyya by country
Ahmadiyya is an Islamic religious movement founded in India near the end of the 19th century by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to have fulfilled the prophecies of the world's reformer during the end times, who was to herald the Eschaton as predicted in the traditions of various world religions and bring about the final triumph of Islam according to Islamic prophecy.

As of 2014 the community has been established in 206 countries and territories of the world.[1][n 1] with concentrations in South Asia, West Africa, East Africa and Indonesia. The community is a minority Muslim sect in almost every country of the world. On the other hand, it has spread to most countries of the world. In some countries, it is practically illegal to be an Ahmadi Muslim. For instance, in Pakistan, following the Ordinance XX, Ahmadis cannot call themselves Muslims, profess the Islamic creed publicly or call their places of worship mosques. Together, these factors make it difficult to estimate the Ahmadiyya population for both the community itself and as well as independent organizations. For this reason, the community gives a figure of "tens of millions";[2] however, most independent sources variously estimate the population to be at least 10 to 20 million[3] worldwide, thereby representing around 1% of the world's Muslim population.[n 2]

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, the Ahmadiyya movement is the fastest growing sect within Islam as of the early 21st century.[n 3] The country with the largest Ahmadiyya population is Pakistan, with an estimated 4 million Ahmadi Muslims. Excluding small nations, the country with the largest proportion of Ahmadis to Muslims is Ghana, standing at 16%. The country with the highest percentage is Sierra Leone standing at over 8%.

The population is almost entirely contained in the single, organized and united movement, commonly referred to as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community(AMC), headed by the Khalifa. The other is the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, which represents less than 0.2% of the total Ahmadiyya population.[n 4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Instead of being confused the Judaism peoples have to adopt some positive measures. One cannot doubt about Ahmadiyya being peaceful yet spreading fast in the world. Judaism could follow our example.
I always welcome your input in the discussion.
One must know Ahmadiyya reformed Islam is joined by more than half a million people in the world in a year now.

No disrespect intended to anybody. Just giving my viewpoint from my heart.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Islam is peaceful and has flourished naturally, like a fragrant flower it has blossomed in the world. Force and coercion done by the politicians do hamper its spread sometimes. I am sorry that Judaism has been shrinking due to its becoming un-natural as they deviated from the religion of Moses and Abraham and did not accept Muhammad to become naturally spreading. Sorry again, I can't do anything about it, the Jews have to reform Judaism themselves to become spreading.

Like Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and spreading fast peacefully:

Ahmadiyya by country
Ahmadiyya is an Islamic religious movement founded in India near the end of the 19th century by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to have fulfilled the prophecies of the world's reformer during the end times, who was to herald the Eschaton as predicted in the traditions of various world religions and bring about the final triumph of Islam according to Islamic prophecy.

As of 2014 the community has been established in 206 countries and territories of the world.[1][n 1] with concentrations in South Asia, West Africa, East Africa and Indonesia. The community is a minority Muslim sect in almost every country of the world. On the other hand, it has spread to most countries of the world. In some countries, it is practically illegal to be an Ahmadi Muslim. For instance, in Pakistan, following the Ordinance XX, Ahmadis cannot call themselves Muslims, profess the Islamic creed publicly or call their places of worship mosques. Together, these factors make it difficult to estimate the Ahmadiyya population for both the community itself and as well as independent organizations. For this reason, the community gives a figure of "tens of millions";[2] however, most independent sources variously estimate the population to be at least 10 to 20 million[3] worldwide, thereby representing around 1% of the world's Muslim population.[n 2]

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, the Ahmadiyya movement is the fastest growing sect within Islam as of the early 21st century.[n 3] The country with the largest Ahmadiyya population is Pakistan, with an estimated 4 million Ahmadi Muslims. Excluding small nations, the country with the largest proportion of Ahmadis to Muslims is Ghana, standing at 16%. The country with the highest percentage is Sierra Leone standing at over 8%.

The population is almost entirely contained in the single, organized and united movement, commonly referred to as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community(AMC), headed by the Khalifa. The other is the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, which represents less than 0.2% of the total Ahmadiyya population.[n 4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Instead of being confused the Judaism peoples have to adopt some positive measures. One cannot doubt about Ahmadiyya being peaceful yet spreading fast in the world. Judaism could follow our example.
I always welcome your input in the discussion.
One must know Ahmadiyya reformed Islam is joined by more than half a million people in the world in a year now.

No disrespect intended to anybody. Just giving my viewpoint from my heart.
Regards

Since when have the Jews ever wanted to spread Judaism?!

 

[paarsurrey]

Since when have the Jews ever wanted to spread Judaism?!

They should have ever wanted to spread as per the Covenant.
Obviously their approach is wrong, as per the Covenant they should have been uncountable like the stars in the sky:

Genesis - Chapter 22:15-18
15And an angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven.
16And he said, "By Myself have I sworn, says the Lord, that because you have done this thing and you did not withhold your son, your only one,
17That I will surely bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand that is on the seashore, and your descendants will inherit the cities of their enemies.
18And through your children shall be blessed all the nations of the world, because you hearkened to My voice."
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8217
The Jews should realize either they had changed the covenant or they were not addressed in the Covenant.
Yet they are shrinking, which is a sign and the proof that they are not following the truthful covenant which speaks of spreading.
Jews are intelligent people, they must be knowing since when they started shrinking instead of spreading.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Their approach is wrong, as per the Covenant they should have been uncountable like the stars in the sky:

Genesis - Chapter 22:15-18
15And an angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven.
16And he said, "By Myself have I sworn, says the Lord, that because you have done this thing and you did not withhold your son, your only one,
17That I will surely bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand that is on the seashore, and your descendants will inherit the cities of their enemies.
18And through your children shall be blessed all the nations of the world, because you hearkened to My voice."
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8217
The Jews should realize either they had changed the covenant or they were not addressed in the Covenant.
Yet they are shrinking, which is a sign and the proof that they are not following the truthful covenant.
Jews are intelligent people, they must be knowing since when they started shrinking instead of spreading.
Regards

This passage is about multiplying via procreation. Not spreading the religion.

 

[paarsurrey]

This passage is about multiplying via procreation. Not spreading the religion.

Even there they have failed.
The Covenant has turned against them.?!
Regards

 

[Flankerl]

Islam is peaceful and has flourished naturally, like a fragrant flower it has blossomed in the world. Force and coercion done by the politicians do hamper its spread sometimes. I am sorry that Judaism has been shrinking due to its becoming un-natural as they deviated from the religion of Moses and Abraham and did not accept Muhammad to become naturally spreading. Sorry again, I can't do anything about it, the Jews have to reform Judaism themselves to become spreading.

Like Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and spreading fast peacefully:

Ahmadiyya by country
Ahmadiyya is an Islamic religious movement founded in India near the end of the 19th century by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who claimed to have fulfilled the prophecies of the world's reformer during the end times, who was to herald the Eschaton as predicted in the traditions of various world religions and bring about the final triumph of Islam according to Islamic prophecy.

As of 2014 the community has been established in 206 countries and territories of the world.[1][n 1] with concentrations in South Asia, West Africa, East Africa and Indonesia. The community is a minority Muslim sect in almost every country of the world. On the other hand, it has spread to most countries of the world. In some countries, it is practically illegal to be an Ahmadi Muslim. For instance, in Pakistan, following the Ordinance XX, Ahmadis cannot call themselves Muslims, profess the Islamic creed publicly or call their places of worship mosques. Together, these factors make it difficult to estimate the Ahmadiyya population for both the community itself and as well as independent organizations. For this reason, the community gives a figure of "tens of millions";[2] however, most independent sources variously estimate the population to be at least 10 to 20 million[3] worldwide, thereby representing around 1% of the world's Muslim population.[n 2]

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, the Ahmadiyya movement is the fastest growing sect within Islam as of the early 21st century.[n 3] The country with the largest Ahmadiyya population is Pakistan, with an estimated 4 million Ahmadi Muslims. Excluding small nations, the country with the largest proportion of Ahmadis to Muslims is Ghana, standing at 16%. The country with the highest percentage is Sierra Leone standing at over 8%.

The population is almost entirely contained in the single, organized and united movement, commonly referred to as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community(AMC), headed by the Khalifa. The other is the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, which represents less than 0.2% of the total Ahmadiyya population.[n 4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Instead of being confused the Judaism peoples have to adopt some positive measures. One cannot doubt about Ahmadiyya being peaceful yet spreading fast in the world. Judaism could follow our example.
I always welcome your input in the discussion.
One must know Ahmadiyya reformed Islam is joined by more than half a million people in the world in a year now.

No disrespect intended to anybody. Just giving my viewpoint from my heart.
Regards

1. You have no clue about Judaism.

2. Your Islam offshoot is lucky if it survives in Muslim countries.

 

[gnostic]

Post #2362 #2365 #2368
The covenant with Jews for allotment of lands is just a fiction created by the narrators/scribes/clergy to motivate Jews for occupations of lands belonging to others. Why should one support it?
Regards

So you claim.
But then, it is not your Holy Book.
I bet you would feel completely different about it were that in your Koran.


Because God said...

paarsurrey said:
Why should one support it?

It is against the attributes of G-d.

The Jews hide some part- the most essential one and the defining one, and only bring out the part that was not essential. The promise was conditional.

Gee, paarsurrey. You don't seem realise the irony of each your reply, do you?

The whole idea of the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the Hadiths, his biographies are about justification and promotion of Islam and Muhammad being a "prophet".

You reject what the Genesis have to say about Abraham, only when it suit you (not just you personally, but Muslims in general), but you (not just you) would agree with it when you can promote Muhammad's lineage of Abraham, Ishmael and Kedar (Qidar).

Hey, I might not believe in the Tanakh, gospels or the Qur'an, but at least I tried to understand what I am reading.

I find it strange that you can reject the covenant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as recalled in Genesis to Joshua, and yet you and other Muslims would ACCEPT EVERYTHING it say about God's promise to Ishmael about his descendants and a nation. Both the covenant (to Isaac) and promise (to Ishmael) are both mentioned in Genesis 17, but you can accept one, but not the other, is terribly conveniently narrow-minded and double-standard of you, hence biased.

I have mentioned time and time again, that you don't know how to properly understand what you read, again showed this to be true. You let your bias get the best of you.

The problem is that a lot of Muslims are the same as you. They disagree with the bible, because many were brought up in Muslim families, and have not read or understand the bible, so how do they disagree with something they have read?

You do realise that you have just proven that your Islam is a false religion, your prophet is false and your God is false?

If you think the covenant to (Abraham and Isaac) and the land belong to false and a fiction (Genesis 17:8, 19), then that would mean God promise to Abraham about Ishmael and his descendants (Genesis 17:20) are false and fiction as well.

Either they are both (covenant and promise) are true or they are both false. You can't selectively say one is true and other is false, because that would be bias based on total ignorance.

But I already know that you are biased and ignorant. That's ship have already sailed, because you clearly don't understand the Torah.

 

[paarsurrey]

1. You have no clue about Judaism.
2. Your Islam offshoot is lucky if it survives in Muslim countries.

You are a friend.
Please give me the clues about Judaism, if you have any. Please correct me if I am wrong.
We are being persecuted, our properties have been burnt, our mosques have been sometimes occupied, our innocent people have been arrested, many have been killed, yet we tolerate and spread even in such countries. It is unfair, but we endure all such hardships.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

If you think the covenant to (Abraham and Isaac) and the land belong to false and a fiction (Genesis 17:8, 19), then that would mean God promise to Abraham about Ishmael and his descendants (Genesis 17:20) are false and fiction as well.

The Judaism people have corrupted the Covenant just to occupy lands. Quran does not take it to make it a scruple for occupying lands.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Even there they have failed.
The Covenant has turned against them.?!
Regards

Or, Muhammad just fooled everyone, as people back then were gullible to the extreme. And there is absolutely no evidence that should make us ignore this obvious possibility. And, not to mention, not long ago more than 6 million Jews were murdered (you moron ... I'm sorry, but your comments were absolutely horrid and ignorant). Pick up a book ... geeze.

 

[Flankerl]

You are a friend.
Please give me the clues about Judaism, if you have any. Please correct me if I am wrong.
We are being persecuted, our properties have been burnt, our mosques have been sometimes occupied, our innocent people have been arrested, many have been killed, yet we tolerate and spread even in such countries. It is unfair, but we endure all such hardships.
Regards

So you know how it is to be persecuted yet all you ever do on RF is to tell others how wrong their Religions are.

Well whatever floats your boat just don't think anyone believes you.