Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

The phrase tuck and run means, a person is being a coward who is cowardly evasive and in self-denial.
It referred to a scared dog that run away instead of confronting a situation, hence the "tucked tail between legs" and "run".
Avoiding "confrontation" doesn't necessarily mean running from physical danger; more frequently it means a person avoiding the subject, by trying to change the subject, like what you often do in this thread and others, constantly evading answering questions (like how you keep changing the subjects, or in other cases, moving the goalpost) or evading facts or truths.
I am not the only one who see you I sing that tactics. Everyone who has criticised you in this thread, have noticed you avoiding the truth or changing the subject.

Well I wanted to hear from Mestemia as to what he understands from it, not a dictionary meaning. He is a friend of mine. Never-mind, however, I still would wait from him.
Thanks for using your good offices in between. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Further to Posts #2717, #2720 ,and #2722 in response to OP's Post #1 I have to add:
Please focus on the following points.

1. Islam has been reformed under the Ahmadiyya and is one of the fastest spreading religious community in the world.
2. Ahmadiyya or true Islam has peacefully spread in about 206 countries/territories of the world. In about 150 years Ahmadiyya are already more than the Zoroastrians and perhaps the Judaism people, no disrespect intended to anybody.
3. if one is truthful one would increase despite the opposition, persecution and killings done by the opponents.
4. Ahmadiyya Muslims follow teachings of Quran as did Muhammad follow. In fact Ahmadiyya follow in Muhammad’s footsteps.
5. Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.

I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina post #2430, Australia Post #2460 , Austria Post #2489, Bangladesh Post #2513, Belarus Post #2535, Belgium Post #2556, Belize #2571, Bulgaria Post #2595, Cameroon Post #2619, Canada Post #2636,Chad Post #2651,Congo #2672, Denmark #2703, Egypt #2824 .

Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in

Fiji. [2]

Fiji ( i/ˈfiːdʒiː/fee-jeeFijian: Viti; Fiji Hindi: फ़िजी), officially the Republic of Fiji[8] (Fijian: Matanitu Tugalala o Viti;[9]Fiji Hindi: रिपब्लिक ऑफ फीजी[10]Fiji Hindi: Ripablik ăph Phījī), is an island country in Melanesia in the South Pacific Ocean about 1,100 nautical miles (2,000 km; 1,300 mi) northeast of New Zealand's North Island. Its closest neighbours areVanuatu to the west, New Caledonia to the southwest, New Zealand'sKermadec Islands to the southeast, Tonga to the east, the Samoas and France's Wallis and Futuna to the northeast, and Tuvalu to the north.

-

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiji

Fijian Acting Prime Minister Aiyaz Saiyed-Khaiyum at Ahmadiyya Muslim Secondary School

AHMADIYYA MUSLIM JAMAAT FIJI OPENS A NEW MOSQUE, MASJID NOOR IN VANUA LEVU
October 8, 2014 by admin in News
By ASHFAAQ KHAN
By the Grace of Allah the Almighty, Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat Fiji had the blessed opportunity to inaugurate a new mosque in Seaqaqa, Vanua Levu on September 12, 2014.
Fiji was blessed with the introduction of Ahmadiyyat in the year 1961. From this time onwards, the members of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat Fiji have had the blessed opportunity to build mosques in their respective districts.
Vanua Levu by the Grace of Allah, already had three Jamaat Mosques and Mission Houses. The Seaqaqa Jamaat was established in 1989 but due to the unavailability of appropriate land, there was no mosque built.
By the Grace of Allah, and the kind prayers of Hazrat Khalifatul Masih V (atba), a beautiful land area with a picturesque view was acquired for the purpose of building a mosque. Hazoor (atba) gave the name ‘Masjid Noor’ for this mosque.
The foundation of this mosque was laid by the then Amir and Missionary in-charge of Fiji, Maulana Fazal Ullah Tariq Sahib on July 5, 2014 followed by Juma Prayers.
Merely by the Grace of Almighty Allah and the kind prayers of our beloved Khalifatul Masih (atba) the construction work progressed rapidly and a beautiful 53 feet by 35 feet mosque took shape in just a matter of 9 weeks. The Inauguration of this mosque was done by the District Commissioner Northern Region, Mr Alipate Bolalevu.
This inauguration ceremony was attended by more than 200 Jamaat members from all around Fiji and as well as guests from various Government Departments.
The total expense to build this mosque was about $120,000.
http://www.thejetnewspaper.com/2014...opens-a-new-mosque-masjid-noor-in-vanua-levu/

Country/Region: Fiji
Ahmadiyya population : 2,000
Percentage (%) of Muslims :3.6
Percentage (%) of population : 0.3
Notes/Sources : 1996 Census[n 6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in

Fiji ?

Regards

 

[outhouse]

I gave how Ahmadiyya spread peacefully in Argentina

We are talking about the origins of islam.

Could you address the OP , not make up your own rhetoric?

 

[outhouse]

Ahmadiyya , had nothing do with islam origin

 

[gnostic]

Well I wanted to hear from Mestemia as to what he understands from it, not a dictionary meaning. He is a friend of mine. Never-mind, however, I still would wait from him.
Thanks for using your good offices in between. Please
Regards

You wouldn't find the phrase in a dictionary. It is a colloquial phrase or slang that mean "coward" who would run away.

There are no other definitions.

You either understand them or you don't. Apparently, you either ignorant to what it mean, or you are in self denial, hoping that it would mean something else.

 

[gnostic]

We are talking about the origins of islam.

Could you address the OP , not make up your own rhetoric?

Ahmadiyya , had nothing do with islam origin

Paarsurrey is pathetically trying to change history, and trying to equate Islam with Ahmadiyya.

All he is doing, is making himself looks dishonest.

I do think that of all the sects in Islam, Ahmadiyya is perhaps one of the few peaceful sects.

But if the Ahmadis are anything like paarsurrey then they are dishonest people, trying to change or manipulate history.

But if paarsurrey is acting alone, then the fault is his and his alone. If that is the case, he has tarnished the Ahmadiyya's image, by constantly lying here at RF.

 

[outhouse]

I do think that of all the sects in Islam, Ahmadiyya is perhaps one of the few peaceful sects.

That may be so.

But most/many don't even view them as muslim

Now the peaceful part is a positive in this member, but the sheer amount of fanaticism and fundamentalism shown here, is outright a negative aspect that makes me personally dislike them.


I like most people, he may be a fine human being, but fundamentalism should not be tolerated by humanity.

 

[outhouse]

But if paarsurrey is acting alone, then the fault is his and his alone. If that is the case, he has tarnished the Ahmadiyya's image

Agreed.

I have yet to meet any muslim even my own family members that have not done so.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

No one has addressed Quran 9:123 which instructs Muslims to fight against non-believers. One does not have to be a fanatic or a radical, just a good honest Muslim reading the Quran. He sees instructions to go out and fight and he is actually being a poor Muslim by not fighting non-Muslims. Many other verses tell Muslims to cut off non-Muslims heads and burn their skin. None of this requires radicalization or fanaticism, just following instructions in the Quran.

 

[McBell]

Well I wanted to hear from Mestemia as to what he understands from it, not a dictionary meaning. He is a friend of mine. Never-mind, however, I still would wait from him.
Thanks for using your good offices in between. Please
Regards

He summed it up rather well.
And he is much more politically correct than I would be.

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey is pathetically trying to change history, and trying to equate Islam with Ahmadiyya.
All he is doing, is making himself looks dishonest.
I do think that of all the sects in Islam, Ahmadiyya is perhaps one of the few peaceful sects.
But if the Ahmadis are anything like paarsurrey then they are dishonest people, trying to change or manipulate history.
But if paarsurrey is acting alone, then the fault is his and his alone. If that is the case, he has tarnished the Ahmadiyya's image, by constantly lying here at RF.

History is an effort to bring about the past events as they happened. It is just an effort, it is never 100% correct,and is the opinion of the historians, they cannot bind anybody to express their opinion otherwise. Events have happened whatever they were, neither the historian could change them nor others.
History depends on the original sources, if they are incorrect and as much they are incorrect so are the historians and history.
Regards

 

[outhouse]

History is an effort to bring about the past events as they happened. It is just an effort, it is never 100% correct,and is the opinion of the historians, they cannot bind anybody to express their opinion otherwise. Events have happened whatever they were, neither the historian could change them nor others.
History depends on the original sources, if they are incorrect and as much they are incorrect so are the historians and history.
Regards

And this history you speak of is 50 X more accurate then religious mythology.

 

[gnostic]

History is an effort to bring about the past events as they happened. It is just an effort, it is never 100% correct,and is the opinion of the historians, they cannot bind anybody to express their opinion otherwise. Events have happened whatever they were, neither the historian could change them nor others.
History depends on the original sources, if they are incorrect and as much they are incorrect so are the historians and history.

Boy, you sure do like to move goalpost frequently. You now trying to move from specific history, to general and generic history.

I was referring to YOU, trying to mix and merge the history of Ahmadiyya to that of the origin of Islam and ALL Islamic history since then ("since then" as in after Muhammad's death in 623 CE).

You keep claiming that the sect started by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835 – 1908, India) is the reform of Islam, to that of "true Islam" as being the exactly same religion as that started by Muhammad (c 570 – 632).

Mirza may have followed the peaceful path of spreading his version of Islam (Ahmadiyya), but Muhammad's life as a prophet was anything but peaceful.

Perhaps Muhammad started out as trying to being peaceful, in Mecca, but his attitude and policy have changed, once he fled to Medina. Muhammad wasn't just a prophet or messenger, he was also a politician and warlord.

Medina wasn't his original home, but he began to assert his authority, as mediator and trying to enforce his "constitution" upon Medina.

1. By expelling the Banu Qaynupa (624) from their home, and stealing their wealth and properties, that the act of politics, not religion. Muhammad began his move by driving out one Jewish tribe after another, is a political move. This is the start of conflict between Muslims and Jews, initiated by Muhammad himself.
2. By raiding merchant caravans (623 – 624) and in one of those raids, in which a merchant attendant (a guard) was killed and enslaving the rest, while looting the caravan's objects, that's not the act of peace, but that of act of aggression, because it is armed robbery and slave trade. A guard in merchant caravan is not a soldier, paarsurrey. Did Muhammad ever regret his death? This is what warlord do, raiding, killing and looting. By raiding the caravans and selling people as slaves, Muhammad is not what I would call a good role model for peace. If anyone initiated the war between Muslims and Meccans, then it was Muhammad, and the act of war started by these caravan raids. Raiding trade caravans are not act of peace. These raids eventually led to the first battle between Muslims and Meccans, the battle of Badr, 624.

Despite, what Muslims may think, the initiation for act of war, began with the first raid in 623, which was led by Muhammad himself. I know that Muhammad fled out of Mecca to Medina in 622, out of fear of persecution and fear for his life, and his family and friends, but he could have started a new life in Mecca, if he had left Mecca alone. Muhammad didn't leave Mecca alone, he began raiding and looting trade caravans. That's not the sign or act of peaceful leadership.

Did Mirza acted the same way, as Muhammad did? Did Mirza and his followers raid and loot, like the way Muhammad and his followers? Did Mirza and the Ahmadis ever sell people into slavery? Did Mirza turn his followers into a large armed army, like the way Muhammad did? Did Mirza ever got involve in politics, as a leader?

If it is "no" for each of the above questions, then Mirza was more peaceful man than Muhammad ever was. They are nothing alike.

If there was ever a True Islam, it was like that of Muhammad and what followed after his death, which involved more more wars, more conquests, and more politics.

No, paarsurrey. The Ahmadiyya is not the true Islam, because Mirza's sect is nothing like the one Muhammad started with. And if you are trying to make them the same, then you are trying to rewrite history.

Islam's history is not Ahmadi history. They are not one and the same. Ahmadi history only began just over 100 years ago.

I have never said that history is 100% perfect, you're the one making such straw man claim.

You are truly a dishonest person.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Quran 9:123 anyone? anyone?

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
For example:
Spread of Islam in Central African Republic : [1]

Islam accounts for approximately 15% (750,000 people) of the population of the Central African Republic, making it the second most followed organized religion in the country after Christianity (80%).[1] The vast majority of Muslims are Sunni of Maliki school of jurisprudence. Most Central African Muslims live in the north-east, near the border with predominantly Muslim Chad and Sudan.[citation needed]

History[edit]
Islam arrived in Central African Republic with the first Arab slave traders in the 17th Century as part of the expansion of the Saharan and Nile River slave routes. They sent slaves to North Africa or South the Ubanqui and Congo rivers. In February 2014, tens of thousands of Muslims fled the Central African Republic for Chad as they felt they were no longer safe in the country.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Central_African_Republic
Muslims being 'erased' from Central African Republic
Amnesty International says Muslims living in rural areas especially targeted as militias undertake "ethnic cleansing".
Azad Essa | 31 Jul 2015 15:14 GMT | Human Rights, War & Conflict, Africa, Central African Republic, Religion

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/...central-african-republic-150731083248166.html

Country/Region: Central African Republic
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:403,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :8.9
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim percentage (%)Other sources : 15%[46][47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Central African Republic . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Please correct me if I am wrong.

We are talking about the origins of islam.

Could you address the OP , not make up your own rhetoric?

STAY on topic

Séléka CPSK-CPJP-UFDR is an alliance of rebel militia factions[1] that overthrew the Central African Republic (CAR) government on March 24, 2013.[2][3][4] Séléka leader Michel Djotodia became the nation's president from March 2013 until his resignation in January 2014.[5][6] Members of Séléka are almost entirely Muslim.[7][8][9][10]


Islam being spread by BLOOD and GUTS

“What’s worse is that the Seleka have recruited children as young as 13 to carry out some of this carnage.”

 

[Augustus]

Islam arrived in Central African Republic with the first Arab slave traders in the 17th Century as part of the expansion of the Saharan and Nile River slave routes. They sent slaves to North Africa or South the Ubanqui and Congo rivers...

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Central African Republic . Do you see any?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Hmmm, spreading as a result of the slave trade is probably not the best example... The slavers probably had guns by this point though...

 

[paarsurrey]

Hmmm, spreading as a result of the slave trade is probably not the best example... The slavers probably had guns by this point though...

I just gave what the Wikipedia has mentioned. Islam does not approve of slavery or slave trade though.
Regards

 

[gnostic]

I just gave what the Wikipedia has mentioned. Islam does not approve of slavery or slave trade though.

It is one for you to say that Islam doesn't approve of slavery, it is totally different in the real world, in which Muhammad and his men take war captives as slaves or sold war captives to slave traders.

When he and his followers were raiding merchant caravans (in 623 - 624), they weren't released but sold into the slavery.

When the Banu Qurayza surrendered to him, they sold the women and children to slave traders. Even Muhammad accept slave girl, when one of his friends gave her to him as a gift.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It is an important point that most of the posters have failed to realize even in the later posts in the thread, hence their wrong conclusions. Islam is an ideology, to prove that Islam commanded to use sword to spread cannot be proved wrong with what Muslims rulers/monarchs or tribal chiefs did or said.
Regards

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah"

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding."

Your own holy book commands Muslims to fight and to spread Islam through violence. Do you deny it?