Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

Did you not notice the word slaves?

Then again, I guess fish have no word for water.

(not mine, Terry Pratchet's, in Small Gods)

I wanted to give the source as it was without any changes or deletions.
Those who were involved in trade of slavery were doing a wrong thing.
There is, however, no teaching in Quran to enslave the human beings.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Unless you want out, unless you want equal rights for women, unless you want to chose for your self, unless your not a Muslim. The Quran specifically creates inequality. It says submit or either suffer subjugation and higher taxation or violence. That is true within it and for whatever it can control.

I don't agree with you.
Your are simply wrong.

Regards

 

[GoodbyeDave]

There is, however, no teaching in Quran to enslave the human beings.

There's no teaching not to, either. And, surprise, surprise, the countries with slavery today are almost all Muslim:
Anti-Slavery - Descent Based Slavery
It's difficult to quantify the level of slavery in the past, but many historians estimate the numbers enslaved by Muslims exceed the numbers of Africans shipped across the Atlantic — and most of the latter were bought from Muslim traders anyway.

 

[1robin]

I don't agree with you.
Your are simply wrong.

Regards

Who could fail to be persuaded by that reason and evidence?

My company just got back from Saudi Arabia. No women there has equal rights with the men. Agree or not? In many Islamic nations trying to convert out of Islam runs the very high risk of capitol punishment. Agree or not? The surah about those who will not convert having to feel themselves subdued and pay the Jizya is in the Quran. Agree or not?

 

[FearGod]

There's no teaching not to, either. And, surprise, surprise, the countries with slavery today are almost all Muslim:
Anti-Slavery - Descent Based Slavery
It's difficult to quantify the level of slavery in the past, but many historians estimate the numbers enslaved by Muslims exceed the numbers of Africans shipped across the Atlantic — and most of the latter were bought from Muslim traders anyway.

Are you sure ?

[youtube]zrBpLKlayIo[/youtube]
Modern Time Slavery In USA - YouTube

 

[gnostic]

Those who were involved in trade of slavery were doing a wrong thing.
There is, however, no teaching in Quran to enslave the human beings.

The word "enslave" not only mean the selling (and/or buying) of slave, but also turning a war-captive into a slave; this is also "enslaving" another person.

Muhammad not only took slaves, after defeating the Banu Qurayzu, but also allow for women and children to be sold into slavery.

Whether it be selling or buying slave, or turning captive of war into slave, it all still mean "enslaving".

The definition for "enslave" is "make someone a slave". The definition doesn't make any distinction between buying or selling, or between capturing someone and using war-captive and turning them into a slave.

And the Qur'an doesn't prevent or ban slavery, but do ban one Muslim enslaving another Muslim, but it doesn't ban Muslim from enslaving non-Muslim.

The Qur'an does encourage Muslim to treat slave and even freeing a slave, but he doesn't have to. Nowhere does the Qur'an say that they have to free slave, only "encourage to".

And "encourage to" free a slave, doesn't mean it is the law to free a slave. "Encourage to" is not an obligation or a rule.

One way a slave can gain freedom is to convert to Islam. That's is compulsion. And again, with the Banu Qurayzu example, those Jews who did convert were not executed along with the other men who didn't convert, or were not enslave with the women and children, only showed that Muslims do believing in forcing people to convert.

A Muslim can have sex with slave woman, that doesn't free her, unless he marry her. And the Qur'an never ban Muslim from having sex with female slave. Another thing is that if a woman give birth to a child, the child doesn't automatically become "free".

So your claim that "There is, however, no teaching in Quran to enslave the human beings" is a false statement.

And it is false, because Muhammad took slaves from the Banu Qurayzu, and even given a couple of them away to his companions, even though Muhammad eventually free those he owned.

And giving slave to another without selling him or her, is still trading in slave.

 

[1robin]

Are you sure ?

[youtube]zrBpLKlayIo[/youtube]
Modern Time Slavery In USA - YouTube

Oh come on. You actually going to suggest there is some underground chattel slave market in the US. Where the heck is it? I can and have roamed from coast to coast many times and have never seen a cotton plantation with a field full of slaves anywhere. Only by redefining what slavery means into something that makes the term meaningless can you even hint that such exists in the US.

Almost every defense of Islam you have given is to point at something somewhere else and say it is worse. Even if true that is no defense.

 

[gnostic]

With regarding to your YouTube video, feargod.

Just because there is underground slavery in the US, doesn't mean slavery is legal in the US.

Slavery weren't even legally banned in Saudi Arabia till the late 1960s, and even then slavery continued to operate illegally and underground.

What occurred underground, not just in slavery, is often illegal.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Mali:

Muslims currently make up approximately 90 percent of the population of Mali. The majority of Muslims in Mali are Malikite Sunni, influenced with Sufism.[1] Ahmadiyya and Shia branches are also present.[2]

History[edit]

During the 9th century, Muslim Berber and Tuareg merchants brought Islam southward into West Africa. Islam also spread in the region by the founders of Sufi brotherhoods (tariqah). Conversion to Islam linked the West African savannah through belief in one God and similar new forms of political, social and artistic accoutrements.[when defined as?] Cities including Timbuktu, Gao and Kano soon became international centers of Islamic learning.

The most significant of the Mali kings was Mansa Musa (1312–1337), who expanded Mali influence over the large Niger city-states of Timbuktu, Gao, and Djenné. Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim who was reported to have built various major mosques throughout the Mali sphere of influence; his gold-laden pilgrimage to Mecca made him a well-known figure in the historical record. It was under Mansa Musa that Timbuktu became one of Africa's and the world's major cultural centers.

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Mali.

Do you see any? Please

Regards

 

[FearGod]

Just because there is underground slavery in the US, doesn't mean slavery is legal in the US.

Slavery weren't even legally banned in Saudi Arabia till the late 1960s, and even then slavery continued to operate illegally and underground.

What occurred underground, not just in slavery, is often illegal.

Islam encourages to free slaves and to treat them as brothers.

[youtube]hGy4Osb_Pt8[/youtube]
Slavery in Islam - Kamal El Mekki - YouTube

 

[gnostic]

Islam encourages to free slaves and to treat them as brothers.

But Islam has never stopped slavery, and the Qur'an has never prohibited slavery.

That Muslims free slaves they owned, as the Qur'an and Muhammad encourage them to do, is not a ban to slavery.

That the Qur'an encourage masters to be good to slaves, and treating them well, is not a ban to slavery.

All the verses in the Qur'an, only contain references how slaves should treat slaves, and encourage them to free them in certain circumstances, doesn't mean that Islam or the Qur'an has abolished slavery in any way.

The only reason why Saudi Arabia abolished slavery in the late 60s, is because the UN put a lot of diplomatic pressures upon the then king and his government at that time, not because they want to abolish slavery.

Nowhere in the Qur'an that I can recall in which Allah want slavery abolished. Freeing slaves or emancipation is not abolishing slavery or making slavery illegal.

Even Muhammad took slaves, every now and then. Just because he free them at his own discretion, doesn't mean he wish to have slavery abolished, and the aftermath of the battle against the Banu Qurayzu prove that.

 

[gnostic]

And furthermore you used the word "encourages", in the quote below:

Islam encourages to free slaves and to treat them as brothers.

The word "encourage" is the operative key word.

"Encourage" is not the rule or law, it is done at the individual's discretion, not because Allah want slavery abolished.

If a Muslim don't want to free slaves, he doesn't have to. Nothing in the Quran will force a Muslim to free his slaves, because slavery or owning slaves is not made illegal.

 

[Shad]

Yes it is enough to begin a conversation.

To claim the site I got an interpretation from is biased is not evidence it is. I don't even care if it was biased (I have no idea I just picked the first site that came up) it's logic is obvious. You do not have to convince people in a defensive battle to fight. That statement was given to people who were not engaged in a war and did not want to be. You can even look at it's time period and see that Muhammad was only raiding caravans during the period. This was an Arab tradition that was simply imported into Islam and pretty much a way of life. Even caravan owners assumed the risk and expected raids. If you want to get deep I will go back to my original post about Muhammad's first battles in the words of his followers alone. No one has ever even attempted to explain them away, as they are accepted Islamic sources. So do not claim bias unless you can demonstrate bias in a specific case. Of course I have studied the theology I find acceptable more than ones that have obvious flaws and little merit, what wouldn't I? If you want to continue to suggest that bias is driving my claims then get specific and lets get into it. Generalized assertions (devoid of even an attempt at justification or evidence) are not going to prove anything.

Sorry but I never looked at what your sources where or what site. My point is that if one look hard enough you can find support of any view. Besides a religion reflects the believer in question. If that person is peaceful, the religion supports peace. If a believer is violent, the religion supports violence. This is all to obvious if one looks at history. This is obvious when looking at arguments within the thread. The society changes first then the religion follows suit.

 

[FearGod]

But Islam has never stopped slavery, and the Qur'an has never prohibited slavery.

That Muslims free slaves they owned, as the Qur'an and Muhammad encourage them to do, is not a ban to slavery.

That the Qur'an encourage masters to be good to slaves, and treating them well, is not a ban to slavery.

All the verses in the Qur'an, only contain references how slaves should treat slaves, and encourage them to free them in certain circumstances, doesn't mean that Islam or the Qur'an has abolished slavery in any way.

The only reason why Saudi Arabia abolished slavery in the late 60s, is because the UN put a lot of diplomatic pressures upon the then king and his government at that time, not because they want to abolish slavery.

Nowhere in the Qur'an that I can recall in which Allah want slavery abolished. Freeing slaves or emancipation is not abolishing slavery or making slavery illegal.

Even Muhammad took slaves, every now and then. Just because he free them at his own discretion, doesn't mean he wish to have slavery abolished, and the aftermath of the battle against the Banu Qurayzu prove that.

No one can stop slavery from occurring whether if it was legal or illegal, slavery can be eliminated only if all people are rich.

 

[gnostic]

No one can stop slavery from occurring whether if it was legal or illegal, slavery can be eliminated only if all people are rich.

That's another reason to think that Islam and its Qur'an is another man-made religion.

If your Allah is all-powerful and all-knowing as Muslims believe him to be, then nothing will stop Allah from saying slavery is wrong and immoral. The Quran doesn't say that, so it is condoning slavery.

Do you seriously think an immortal being like Allah would care one way or another what people would say or think, if he was really a "god"?

The Qur'an ranted on and on, about what is immoral about this or that, or this or that is a sin, and yet baulk on the issues of slavery.

Telling people should treat slave well, is condoning slavery. Encouraging people to free slaves, instead of abolishing slavery, is condoning slavery, Giving slave away to a friend or kinsman, like Muhammad has done, is still condoning slavery.

Freeing slaves doesn't mean you can get more slaves later on. Muhammad condone slavery, as do your god, but then again, I think Muhammad's Allah is nothing more than extension of Muhammad's own ego than a "real" god.

And making people rich won't stop slavery. Virtually every countries around the world today, have abolished slavery in their own respective countries, and made trafficking humans illegal, and this is not due to some imaginary deity or deities.

Sure, trafficking in slavery still happened today, but at least these people can be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned for selling and buying slaves.

But now most Muslims, like paarsurrey, say slavery is wrong, and yet previously the Qur'an and Muhamamd condoned slavery, seemed hypocritical.

I'm Chinese, and my parents were born in southern China. Although, I don't know of any of my ancestors before my grandparents, owned slaves or were slaves themselves, but at least I am willing to admit slavery has occurred far as the Shang Dynasty.

Muslims today, seemed to take apologetic approach to slavery in their past history, making all sorts of excuses. about better treatment of slaves or freeing slaves.

 

[Looncall]

No one can stop slavery from occurring whether if it was legal or illegal, slavery can be eliminated only if all people are rich.

Decent people recognize that slavery is one of the greatest crimes against humanity.

I notice that as soon as muslims feel themselves free of restraint (Boko Haram, ISIS), they resort to slavery.

Slavery is one of the great barbarities of islam.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

In muslim communities, religion plays a bigger part in politics, then free countries that separate religion and state.

Try it sometime.

yes that is right
islam is religion and state

This is the reason for closure of Muslims in Western countries
They are waiting for any chance to get a judgment in any spot him
Muslim does not accept any law and rejects all laws and the laws say about the status of
That is to say that Islamic law is better than all the laws
And also is the engine for all Islamic movements
Bowed moderate ones

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islam did not abolish slavery
Muslim Koran says that the Word of God
This talk is good in every time and place
And Unchangeable
That is the slavery of the teachings of Islam
The most important guide
Queens is the marriage of the right and intended them slaves or slaves
The marriage of two and three and four
And proprietary
Here are proprietary slain
This is permitted, any sex with proprietary without a marriage contract because they Maids

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Arabic is the origin of the Koran
Read verse
Well
؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ مثنى وثلاث ورباع ؟و-------ما ----ملكت ----ايمانكم

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Slavery
Continuing in Islam
Because freeing a slave is the slave of the origins of faith
Such as almsgiving and fasting
There is a state of liberation of the slave's neck -
And here is not Cancel
But is the recognition that slaves exist in the Muslim community