Was Islam spread by the sword?

[1robin]

You own her while she is paid.
Yes of course she have to be paid and treated well.

No you do not. You cant sell her organs, you can't donate here to science, she can walk away without you being able to do anything about it, you can't trade her. Employment is by consent. So is democracy.

 

[1robin]

How not forced ?
She is forced to sell her body in order to live, do you think she is happy to be every hour with a man if not for the need of money.

How is she forced? Legalizing something only means you do not prevent it, it does not mean you mandate it.

 

[YmirGF]

What you possess is what you own by your money to work for you.
We call them today domestic helpers or maids.

That is ridiculous, FearGod. If you have domestic helpers or maids, you do not OWN them. You are merely their employer. People are not like pets.

 

[vskipper]

@feargod, so you believe that major corporations like walmart & mcdonalds own their employees because those working for them need that money to survive (usually) & thus quitting while possible is highly unlikely due to their financial status (i.e. low income)?

 

[FearGod]

Its the only religion that breeds its own hatred due to required fundamentalist beliefs.

And It has its own built in hatred, its own people have been fighting each other since they created these beliefs.

Its core foundation, is that all other religions are wrong and in error. Maybe they dont see how this creates conflict and hatred ?????

Before Islam people were in the age of ignorance and the dark ages and during Islam the world changed.

Homo sapiens were here on earth since 200,000 years and significant changes happened shortly after the born of Islam.

History is the best teller and not your opinion and false logic.

[youtube]nVt3zZEOgQA[/youtube]
Islam in Spain - the culture and history of Andalus, Cordoba, Spain - YouTube

 

[FearGod]

@feargod, so you believe that major corporations like walmart & mcdonalds own their employees because those working for them need that money to survive (usually) & thus quitting while possible is highly unlikely due to their financial status (i.e. low income)?

There is something called boss.

Work for me and get paid, do this and do that.
Don't you want to work for me then you aren't paid and you are free.

Now what the work of the maid,just talking seriously regardless of religion, they have to obey their boss, do this and do that and get paid, that is a fact, we feel sorry that such thing is happening but no escape.

Do you think the maid is happy to serve her boss, clean the house, take care of children and only she can leave in the weekend and back to the boss house to serve his family.

But that is life, we can't be all rich, we can't be all boss.

It is happening every where regardless of religion.

[youtube]7kdwfog_KZI[/youtube]
Slavery In Los Angeles, USA - YouTube

 

[1robin]

Before Islam people were in the age of ignorance and the dark ages and during Islam the world changed.

Homo sapiens were here on earth since 200,000 years and significant changes happened shortly after the born of Islam.

History is the best teller and not your opinion and false logic.

[youtube]nVt3zZEOgQA[/youtube]
Islam in Spain - the culture and history of Andalus, Cordoba, Spain - YouTube

That is not an argument, it is a platitude that is not even true anyway. Egypt, Greece, Israel, Rome, Britain, and the US have all had a greater benevolent effect on the world that Islam. It is very arguable that the net effect Islam had was negative anyway. Is Islam so devoid of merit that you have to obsess about the dark ages, defend it by pointing to something you mistakenly think is worse, and speak in platitudes?

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Mali:

Status of religious freedom

The constitution provides for freedom of religion and does not permit any form of religious discrimination or intolerance by the government or individual persons. There is no state religion as the constitution defines the country as a secular state and allows for religious practices that do not pose a threat to social stability and peace.

The government requires that all public associations, including religious associations, register with the government. However, registration confers no tax preference and no other legal benefits, and failure to register is not penalized in practice. Traditional indigenous religions are not required to register.

A number of foreign missionary groups operate in the country without government interference. Both Muslims and non-Muslims are allowed to convert people freely.

The family law, including laws pertaining to divorce, marriage, and inheritance, are based on a mixture of local tradition and Islamic law and practice.
During presidential elections held in April and May 2002, the Government and political parties emphasized the secularity of the state. A few days prior to the elections, a radical Islamic leader called on Muslims to vote for former Prime Minister Ibrahim Boubakar Keïta. The High Council of Islam, the most senior Islamic body in the country, severely criticized the statement and reminded all citizens to vote for the candidate of their choice.

In January 2002, the High Council was created to coordinate religious affairs for the entire Muslim community and standardize the quality of preaching in mosques. All Muslim groups in the country currently recognize its authority.
Extremism

Extremist worshippers of Islam have been responsible for some reprehensible acts in Mali, most notably what has been nicknamed the Battle of Gao, in which an extremist Muslim group, Ansar Dine began to destroy various World Heritage Sites. The most significant of these was the mausoleum of Sidi Mahmoud Ben Amar and in mausoleums around the capital, including that of Sidi Yahya, militants broke in and destroyed tombs.

Many towns in Mali are falling victim to extremist groups’ implementation of Sharia law, by which many African cultures and enjoyments have been denied.[5] A recent report in The Guardian revealed that extremist groups have banned music in certain regions and were known to turn up randomly in villages, armed with weaponry, to burn musical instruments and musical items on bonfires. One guitarist was threatened that his fingers would be chopped off if he ever showed his face in one town again.[5]

Islam in Mali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Mali.

Do you see any? Please

Regards

 

[vskipper]

That is not an argument, it is a platitude that is not even true anyway. Egypt, Greece, Israel, Rome, Britain, and the US have all had a greater benevolent effect on the world that Islam. It is very arguable that the net effect Islam had was negative anyway. Is Islam so devoid of merit that you have to obsess about the dark ages, defend it by pointing to something you mistakenly think is worse, and speak in platitudes?

I came to this forum initially to show two very simplistic holes in Islamic ideology while offering Muslims a chance to defend it.....

But now you are forcing me to defend it by making commentary such as this. If you research Islamic history you will find numerous things that it brought to the world, especially in areas of math & science. I am being brief here but to say that they presently bring nothing of real value is to ignore the fact that the same could be said of the rest of the world as forms of entertainment expanded & discovery of meaningful knowledge stagnated

 

[Looncall]

I came to this forum initially to show two very simplistic holes in Islamic ideology while offering Muslims a chance to defend it.....

But now you are forcing me to defend it by making commentary such as this. If you research Islamic history you will find numerous things that it brought to the world, especially in areas of math & science. I am being brief here but to say that they presently bring nothing of real value is to ignore the fact that the same could be said of the rest of the world as forms of entertainment expanded & discovery of meaningful knowledge stagnated

Many of those things islam is said to have produced (long, long ago) were cribbed from other peoples.

As for new knowledge, just try keeping up with the scientific literature in any field you choose. You will be unable to do it.

Your post is balderdash.

 

[FearGod]

That is not an argument, it is a platitude that is not even true anyway. Egypt, Greece, Israel, Rome, Britain, and the US have all had a greater benevolent effect on the world that Islam. It is very arguable that the net effect Islam had was negative anyway. Is Islam so devoid of merit that you have to obsess about the dark ages, defend it by pointing to something you mistakenly think is worse, and speak in platitudes?

you can't beat facts by a silly argument.

The dark ages in Europe in the middle ages is a historical fact.
The golden age of Islam that enable muslims to reach Spain is a historical fact.

Knowledge and science have been developed by Muslims and reached Europe through Spain.

Racism can't erase the historical fact that Islam was the key for our recent civilization.

 

[Sees]

Many of those things islam is said to have produced (long, long ago) were cribbed from other peoples.

As for new knowledge, just try keeping up with the scientific literature in any field you choose. You will be unable to do it.

Your post is balderdash.

:clap

It characterizes Islam at the core. Greek, Hindu, Jewish, etc. developments being slightly tweaked and rebranded. Religious bias keeps people wanting to present the Middle East as the heart of civilization which gifted the rest of the barbaric world with knowledge.

 

[vskipper]

Many of those things islam is said to have produced (long, long ago) were cribbed from other peoples.

As for new knowledge, just try keeping up with the scientific literature in any field you choose. You will be unable to do it.

Your post is balderdash.

When was the last disease cured? A new form of government formed? Discovery of things with no practical application possible is inevitable. I am talking about things like the invention of the internet, curing polio, the invention of the printing press, things that changed the globe and the way the world works. The detection of tubercolosis and vaccine. Printing press. I am talking quality of life history changing knowledge.

 

[vskipper]

:clap

It characterizes Islam at the core. Greek, Hindu, Jewish, etc. developments being slightly tweaked and rebranded. Religious bias keeps people wanting to present the Middle East as the heart of civilization which gifted the rest of the barbaric world with knowledge.

To claim is nice but dull, proof is more entertaining.

 

[Looncall]

When was the last disease cured? A new form of government formed? Discovery of things with no practical application possible is inevitable. I am talking about things like the invention of the internet, curing polio, the invention of the printing press, things that changed the globe and the way the world works. The detection of tubercolosis and vaccine. Printing press. I am talking quality of life history changing knowledge.

How about the internet? How about computing in general? Vast lifestyle changes, and all very recent.

How about the new vaccine for ebola? Hot off the lab.

You shouldn't sneer at basic research. It makes all the rest possible.

Religion, on the other hand, merely inflicts ancient errors and barbarities on the present day.

 

[1robin]

you can't beat facts by a silly argument.

That was pretty much my point.

The dark ages in Europe in the middle ages is a historical fact.
The golden age of Islam that enable muslims to reach Spain is a historical fact.

I did not deny that, I pointed out your obsession with one of only a few highpoints in Islamic history and ignoring the rest.

Knowledge and science have been developed by Muslims and reached Europe through Spain.

That would be true of almost all cultures from China to Brazil. However modern abstract science was almost a completely Christian creation. Even the most authoritative multi volume work by an atheist had to admit that fact. Even agreeing that Islam made contributions they are not even in the same realm as Christianity's not that proves anything by its self.

Racism can't erase the historical fact that Islam was the key for our recent civilization.

What racism? What the heck are you talking about? There is nothing about modern Islamic civilization that inspires pride in anything.

 

[1robin]

How about the internet? How about computing in general? Vast lifestyle changes, and all very recent.

How about the new vaccine for ebola? Hot off the lab.

You shouldn't sneer at basic research. It makes all the rest possible.

Religion, on the other hand, merely inflicts ancient errors and barbarities on the present day.

Christianity founded modern science. Most of the actual fields themselves were founded by Christians, and Jews. If you subtracted Jews and Christian contributions from science there would no longer be any shoulders for the most modern scientists to stand upon. If Galileo, keeper, Newton, Pascal and a thousand others just as vital had not done science what would modern science be built upon?

 

[FearGod]

Islamic civilization was the turning point from the age of ignorance to the modern civilization.

[youtube]Tj052KVnvnQ[/youtube]
Muslim civilisation: the pioneers of Science and Technology - YouTube

 

[Ryujin]

Christianity founded modern science. Most of the actual fields themselves were founded by Christians, and Jews. If you subtracted Jews and Christian contributions from science there would no longer be any shoulders for the most modern scientists to stand upon. If Galileo, keeper, Newton, Pascal and a thousand others just as vital had not done science what would modern science be built upon?

Japanese and Persian/central Asian principles? Remember, just because socio-economic circumstances don't allow some people in a culture to flourish, it doesn't mean that there aren't brilliant people in that culture. I see your Gallileo and raise you an Ulugh Beg.

Anyway, the main reasons that Christians made those advances has to do with the fact that Europe and later America was rich and thriving. It hasn't anything to do with their religion making them intellectually superior to others.

Why weren't major scientific advances, such as those made in Europe, made in other Christian regions, like Ethiopia? Simple, it has to do with material wealth and a lucky combination of socio-economic circumstances. Ethiopia was poor and offered less opportunity to the brilliant people living there. I reiterate, a person having the "right" religion does NOT make that person smarter. There are incredibly smart people everywhere, it is just seldom that circumstances allow for them to reach their potential.

Also, "modern science", which builds on empirical evidence, became a standard way of doing things during the Abbasid Caliphate and was, in fact, not founded by Christians.

Moving on, "Most of the actual fields themselves were founded by Christians, and Jews." You do realize that even if a non-western culture were to found one of the fields, it would not have been recognized, as the West was very Euro-centric and, wouldn't have accepted that a Chinese Confucian or Arab Muslim could have made an advancement before a western Christian. And, ultimately, it was the west that had the final call, rising to power at an opportune time, right as industrialization began. This allowing them(Christians, btw) to subjugate and oppress the vast majority of people who had a different religion. And, as the Mongol rule of China shows, people don't advance much technologically or scientifically under the boot of a foreign culture that has no respect for and doesn't care for your people.

Furthermore, many scientific advances and discoveries (many of which the west didn't know of until after WW2 and mostly having to do with technologies with combat applications), were made by post-Meiji restoration Japan, a nation as far from christian as possible. This was because the economic circumstances of Japan at the time allowed for advancement. Even today Japan is at the forefront of technological and scientific advancement, not because of their religion, but because their economic resources allow for it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?

No.

For example:

Spread of Islam in Mauritania:

Virtually all Mauritanians are Sunni Muslims. They adhere to the Maliki madhab, one of the four Sunni schools of law. Since independence in 1960, Mauritania has been an Islamic republic. The Constitutional Charter of 1985 declares Islam the state religion and sharia the law of the land.

History

Islam first spread southward into West Africa, including Mauritania, with the movement of Muslim traders and craftsmen and later with the founders of Islamic brotherhoods. Although the brotherhoods (Sufism and tariqa) played a role in the early expansion of Islam, it was not until the nineteenth century that these religious orders assumed importance when they attempted to make religion a force for expanding identities and loyalties beyond the limits of kinship.

The relative peace brought to the area by French administration and the growing resentment of colonial rule contributed to the rapid rise in the power and influence of the brotherhoods. In recent decades, these orders have opposed tribalism and have been an indispensable element in the growth of nationalist sentiment. Since the Ahmadiyya Islamic movement has a large presence in West Africa, the African Muslim Congress met in Mauritania in 1976 to call upon African nations to regard Ahmadi Muslims as apostates, though with little success.[1]

Sufi brotherhoods

In the 1980s, two brotherhoods (tariqa), the Qadiriyyah and the Tijaniyyah, accounted for nearly all the brotherhood membership in Mauritania. The Qadiriyyah and Tijaniyyah were essentially parallel "ways," differing primarily in their methods of reciting the litanies. Their Islamic doctrines and their religious obligations were basically similar. Two smaller brotherhoods also existed — the Shadhiliyyah, centered in Boumdeït in Tagant Region, and the Goudfiya, found in the regions of Tagant, Adrar,Hodh ech Chargui, and Hodh el Gharbi.
Indigenous traditions

As Islam spread westward and southward in Africa, various elements of indigenous religious systems became absorbed into and then altered strictly Islamic beliefs. For example, the Islamic tradition in Mauritania began to include a variety of spirits and supernatural beings, whilst recognizing Allah as the only God. Muslims in Mauritania believe in various lesser spirits apparently transformed from pre-Islamic faiths into Islamic spirits.

Islam in Mauritania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't see any sword in spread of Islam in Mauritania.

Do you see any? Please

Regards