Limo
Active Member
Yes not the literal "whole?", the same as the "whole are Trinterian in Nicaea" Arians were there and their descendants Unitarian still exist till date
The whole, means the official christian council; state churches
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Was Jesus a Christian ?
- Thread starter Limo
- Start date
The whole, means the official christian council; state churches
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
No, he was not. He could not have been one as he never heard of it. He never even dreamed that Christianity would ever rise.
Limo
Active Member
Agree on first part but was wondering on second part.
How do you know that Jesus never dreamed Christianity would ever rise ?
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Because Jesus had already passed away for a good number of years when Paul caused Christianity to exist. (Acts 11:26)
Limo
Active Member
True.
So, it's from christian references. I thought there is something from Judaic references.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
I said there were no Christians before Jesus passed away.
So, your point is?
Please note that most Christians also believe that Jesus is God.
Ciao
- viole
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
There is absolutely no Judaic reference to Jesus in the Tanach. You must stick to the NT although Jesus never had any thing to do with the NT. It is all from Hellenists former disciples of Paul.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Because when Christianity was founded by Paul in Antioch, Jesus had passed away for about 30 or 40 years already. (Acts 11:26)
Limo
Active Member
I was answering your previous question
Let me remind you with the discussion point :
From Bible only, Is "Christianity" connected to Jesus-Christ from belief, worshiping, Law, practicing, way he lived,, ?"
We're not discussing is Jesus-Christ a god or God the Son?
Regards
Sure. But since Allah is not Muslim (because He is believed to be God), then Jesus does not need to be Christian (because He is believed to be God, too).
Ciao
- viole
Limo
Active Member
Although the analogy is not applied here but let me explain the difference.
As per Islamic references (Quran and Hadeeth) Allah asked us for a certain belief and sends us Law in Quran. Prophet Mohamed was messenger and role model of following the Law and lived as per Quran, we Muslims are abide to Allah's commandments and following our role model. So, we're totally connected to Allah and literally following the role model who is Prophet Mohamed.
According to Christianity references (Bible), are Christians connected to what they consider a god ? are they following or living as their role-model Jesus-Christ ?
Regards
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Jesus was never the role model for Christians. Their role model was Paul, the founder of Christianity. (Acts 11:26) Jesus never had any thing to do with Christianity. Their god is a triune god. The God of Jesus is of an absolute Oneness.
Limo
Active Member
This is correct.
Many people including me call it Pauline-Christinty.
But there is another decaying/finished sect called Messianic-Christianity I know you don't believe in Isa as a messenger not even a messiah but historically speaking there were Jews groups who followed Al-Masseh Isa Ibn Mariam.
Regards
You are changing the goal post. You asked whether Jesus was a Christian, not whether Christians follow their role model Jesus.
Two completely different things.
Ciao
- viole
Limo
Active Member
You're right some how.
May be the question should be as you suggested (somebody else raised this same issue)
But both questions lead to the fact that : According to the Bible only , Christianity is not connected to Jesus-Christ.
According to the Bible only , neither Jesus-Christ is a Christian nor Christians are true followers of Jesus-Christ.
Regards
Christians mostly follow Paul. Jesus was the perfect individual, Paul was the sinner. I think Christians accept they are not "perfect" so maybe it's that they see their only course, being a sinner, is to follow another sinner. Paul struggling to follow Jesus, it becomes the Christian's struggle through Paul's doctrine.
Paul was not worthy of Heaven but felt God/Jesus saved him anyway. This seems reflected in much of Christian doctrine.
So i have refuted your points? If not please state the objections you have about my quotes and exegesis of the gospel material.
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. That's what the right name is. Pauline-Christianity; considering that Christianity was founded by Paul in the city of Antioch. (Acts 11:26)