Was Jesus A Narcissist?

[Super Universe]

So you're saying that it's not true because it doesn't fit your picture of Jesus has some sort of altruist. Well you see that incident about saving the adulteress is uncanonical. Most scholars agree that the incident has no place in scripture and the incident I refer to about Jesus being an ******* to a minority, independent attestations. It's in two gospels, so it probably happened

Yep, I'm saying it's not true.

The incident about saving the adulteress is uncanonical? These men who decided what's canonical were they great minds? Did they come up with any new ideas?
Freedom of speach or freedom of the press? Plate tectonics, Black holes or string theory, blood types, the virus or DNA? Anything? Nope. So why would they say that this isn't as important? Maybe because it has to do with treating women fairly?

It's in two gospels so it probably happened? Right, men who were afraid of comets and thought meteors were "fireballs from heaven", well they couldn't all be wrong, now could they?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Ok let's move forward. I want to first show you a defense mechanism that narcissistic people often use:

Splitting
Main article: Splitting (psychology)
People who are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder use splitting as a central defense mechanism. According to psychoanalyst Kernberg, “the normal tension between actual self on the one hand, and ideal self and ideal object on the other, is eliminated by the building up of an inflated self concept within which the actual self and the ideal self and ideal object are confused. At the same time, the remnants of the unacceptable images are repressed and projected onto external objects, which are devalued.”[14] The merging of the "inflated self concept" and the "actual self" is seen in the inherent grandiosity of narcissistic personality disorder. Also inherent in this process are the defense mechanisms of devaluation, idealization and denial.[15] Other people are either manipulated as an extension of one's own self, who serve the sole role of giving "admiration and approval"[16] or they are seen as worthless (because they are unable to collude with the narcissist's grandiosity).[17]

Are there examples in the NT of Jesus using this defense mechanism?

Indeed there are!

In the NT we find Jesus accuses the Pharisees of taking advantage of poor women, taking their money and looking to them for financial support. But Jesus is being hypocritical here because in Luke 8:1-3 it is shown that Jesus is being financially supported by some mentally ill women

"1 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means."

This is a perfect example of splitting, Jesus is accusing the Pharisees of doing something he is doing himself

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

The Greeks had a term for it back then and wrote alot about it. So he has no excuse

I don't think the Greeks used it in the context you are implying but don't let me take your rationalization away. Carry on.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I don't think the Greeks used it in the context you are implying but don't let me take your rationalization away. Carry on.

The Greeks had alot to say about hubris. Believe me, Jesus fits that bill

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I would be the first to admit I am a narcissist.

I wonder, are you thinking you are Jesus? Because we can get you some help for that.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I wonder, are you thinking you are Jesus? Because we can get you some help for that.

Believe me I have no desire to save people or do any sort of messiahing. In fact just the opposite

 

[idav]

I wonder, are you thinking you are Jesus? Because we can get you some help for that.

No, she can't be Jesus. Before Jesus I am.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No, she can't be Jesus. Before Jesus I am.

She can't be Jesus because you are? Well, we have room for you too, a nice padded one.

(You both know I'm kidding right? )

 

[idav]

She can't be Jesus because you are? Well, we have room for you too, a nice padded one.

That is no way to treat a chosen one!!

(You both know I'm kidding right? )

I know, I don't really think I'm all that special.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

She can't be Jesus because you are? Well, we have room for you too, a nice padded one.

(You both know I'm kidding right? )

How about we lay off the veiled insults and the petty ad hominems and stick to the subject at hand or is the beyond your limited capabilities in debate

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I know, I don't really think I'm all that special.

I'm special. My mama always says so. :yes:

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

How about we lay off the veiled insults and the petty ad hominems and stick to the subject at hand or is the beyond your limited capabilities in debate

Definitely beyond my capabilities. Although I meant no insults to be veiled, I'm against religious dress codes.

 

[Super Universe]

Ok let's move forward. I want to first show you a defense mechanism that narcissistic people often use:

Splitting
Main article: Splitting (psychology)
People who are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder use splitting as a central defense mechanism. According to psychoanalyst Kernberg, “the normal tension between actual self on the one hand, and ideal self and ideal object on the other, is eliminated by the building up of an inflated self concept within which the actual self and the ideal self and ideal object are confused. At the same time, the remnants of the unacceptable images are repressed and projected onto external objects, which are devalued.”[14] The merging of the "inflated self concept" and the "actual self" is seen in the inherent grandiosity of narcissistic personality disorder. Also inherent in this process are the defense mechanisms of devaluation, idealization and denial.[15] Other people are either manipulated as an extension of one's own self, who serve the sole role of giving "admiration and approval"[16] or they are seen as worthless (because they are unable to collude with the narcissist's grandiosity).[17]

Are there examples in the NT of Jesus using this defense mechanism?

Indeed there are!

In the NT we find Jesus accuses the Pharisees of taking advantage of poor women, taking their money and looking to them for financial support. But Jesus is being hypocritical here because in Luke 8:1-3 it is shown that Jesus is being financially supported by some mentally ill women

"1 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means."

This is a perfect example of splitting, Jesus is accusing the Pharisees of doing something he is doing himself

Accepting a gift is not usually considered taking advantage of someone.

If you want the truth (I know you don't) but Jesus also had a women's corp of Apostles. It's not surprising that many years later when men wrote the books of the bible they sort of left that out. It's a man's world you know.

When Jesus spoke to the people some of the Apostles were in charge of crowd control, they would accept donations that helped support Jesus and the Apostles but this was not the main means of support, they took a month off of traveling to fish and put all of their money into one to support the group. Also one Apostle actually used up his entire savings to support the group and he kept it a secret to the others, but Jesus knew.

These people did this of their own free will. They were not tricked.

And it was good.

 

[Quagmire]

First I would like to present to you guys what the DSM-IV defines as narcissistic personality disorder, if I may:



Oh boy, oh boy. What more could I say?

Well, if you want your theory to be looked at seriously you could say quite a bit more than this. You could, for instance provide a few examples of what you're talking about. One to illustrate each point would be a good start.

All one has to do is pick up your own copy of the New Testament

Give us some reason to believe that you have.

 

[YmirGF]

So what say you guys, was JC a narcissist?

I don't see it, myself. Good luck on the book tour.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Well, if you want your theory to be looked at seriously you could say quite a bit more than this. You could, for instance provide a few examples of what you're talking about. One to illustrate each point would be a good start.




Give us some reason to believe that you have.

Read the thread. I am going to the criteria one step at a time

 

[Quagmire]

Read the thread. I am going to the criteria one step at a time

8 pages and you've only touched on the first point in your list?

 

[Me Myself]

It's one thing that you feel that you are so awesome that you think that you are the savior of your people and that they should follow you. That's a bit grandiose.

He was a good moal standard for his time and he recognised this. At least, let´s say he thinks he was a very good one.

Don´t see much of a big deal in that one. I always thought it was very silly of a lot of saints to be "humble" to what really turned out to pretend they were horrible monsters while everyone knew they mostly were really good people.

It gets pathetic and useless. If he has high image of himself, well, he oughta. I mean, the guy could walk on water, and the power supposedly came from God. If you are not very very awesome then, then I don´t know when.

But when you feel that you are so awesome that not only the messiah but the now you view yourself as the Son of God, the inheritor of the universe and then it doesn't stop and now you now think you, yourself as God.

The problem is that the character of the bible (I talk in this terms for commong ground, after all we are talking about the char from the gospels. Wheter everything written there was accurate or not is besides the question, but we´ll treat the "character" in the way the gospels portray it because that is the source you are using when he says he is "all that" ) had revelation from God that he was, in fact, that awesome.

If God tells you something and leave you a memo you can walk on water to prove that he is God and that what he is saying then must make sense, you either believe you are being "x"ed (Jamy Kenedy Experiment!) or more realistic for that time, you actually are as awesome as the voice that lets you walk on water say you are.

In other comments he said contrary things, mind you. In some he is the incrediblesness incarnated, in others he says "Why do you call me good? Only God is good" in other he says "I only act in behalf of my Father"


And so on.

If you are gonna judge the man by what he says on the bible, then the miracles are part of the context. So... well, not so much narcisism, but "realism (again, talking about the reality of the character of the book, not actual reality necesarily)

 

[CynthiaCypher]

8 pages and you've only touched on the first point in your list?

Actually I hit on 1 and 7 and got sidetracked with splitting

 

[blackout]

What can be 'read' as narcissism can also/instead be read as metaphor.



literal and symbolic readings yeild different 'means' and different end(ing)s.