Was Mohammed a man of peace ? - as his last words were to curse the Christians and the Jews

[F0uad]

Correction: If you take Jesus' words out of CONTEXT, you can make them fit your meaning

You only reply on the things i said that are not of important... you know your just making yourself look bad...

According to Christians Jesus(p) is god therefore Jesus(p) ordered in the old-testament that the isrealist to Moses(p) and Jeshua(p) to exterminate entire populations of Man, woman, children, animals and trees. Jesus(p) inspires Moses(p) to stone a man because he simply picked up wood on a Sabbath day, Jesus(p) reveals in the Torah if a man rapes a virgin outside the city limits the rapist must give the victim's father 50 shekels of silver and he must marry hes victim ''you have to marry you rapist, and you are never allowed to divorce'' :sarcastic

Jesus(p) in the new-testament when the Pharisees criticise his disciples for not washing there hands before they eat, he criticises them for not killing there rebellious children as the law says.
Jesus(p) says in the new-testament luke chapter 19 but those enemies who not accept me as there king, slay them before me, and then he leads a army and the story goes on..

Now this is all true, but that doesn't mean my premiss is true that jesus(p) was violent because he wasn't it was just a smoke-screen. Now you can see i can do the same but i rather get my information based on knowledge, facts and proof and not assumption.

I hope you can understand what i am saying if not you will have more issue's in the Bible then you can ever find in the Quran and hadiths

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Jesus(p) in the new-testament when the Pharisees criticise his disciples for not washing there hands before they eat, he criticises them for not killing there rebellious children as the law says.
Jesus(p) says in the new-testament luke chapter 19 but those enemies who not accept me as there king, slay them before me, and then he leads a army and the story goes on..




I hope you can understand what i am saying if not you will have more issue's in the Bible then you can ever find in the Quran and hadiths

That you would even attempt to speak about the Bible is laughable. You've clearly never read it. You run and get verses that you yourself have never even read from Islamic apologetic websites devoted to trying to disprove Christianity.

 

[F0uad]

That you would even attempt to speak about the Bible is laughable. You've clearly never read it. You run and get verses that you yourself have never even read from Islamic apologetic websites devoted to trying to disprove Christianity.

I am not going to even talk to you any-more, you do not even understand what i am trying to point out. I never copied or qouted from a anti-religious site and i never said Jesus(p) is violent. Now please don't be a moron, read my message's and try to understand them.. JUST FOR ONCE

 

[arthra]

FOaud wrote above:

Jesus(p) says in the new-testament luke chapter 19 but those enemies who not accept me as there king, slay them before me, and then he leads a army and the story goes on..

This is from a parable told by Jesus but does not mean He endorses killing people.. It's a story:

Luke 19:11-27

New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Ten Minas

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.

12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’


14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.

27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

from NIV translation:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19:11-27&version=NIV

So this is a story told by Jesus to praise those who use what they have and gain as good and faithful and to reward them ...while the servant that did nothing even that little he had was taken away from him.. and the King had those who opposed him to be executed... It's a story.

 

[F0uad]

FOaud wrote above:

Jesus(p) says in the new-testament luke chapter 19 but those enemies who not accept me as there king, slay them before me, and then he leads a army and the story goes on..

This is from a parable told by Jesus but does not mean He endorses killing people.. It's a story:

Luke 19:11-27

New International Version (NIV)

The Parable of the Ten Minas

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.

12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’


14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away.

27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

from NIV translation:

Luke 19:11-27 NIV - The Parable of the Ten Minas - While - Bible Gateway

So this is a story told by Jesus to praise those who use what they have and gain as good and faithful and to reward them ...while the servant that did nothing even that little he had was taken away from him.. and the King had those who opposed him to be executed... It's a story.

Please read my full message to fully understand what i was saying, i was quoting those verses to make a smoke-screen to give a example how people attack other religions.

I hope you will read my message's that i posted before.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I am not going to even talk to you any-more, you do not even understand what i am trying to point out. I never copied or qouted from a anti-religious site and i never said Jesus(p) is violent. Now please don't be a moron, read my message's and try to understand them.. JUST FOR ONCE

I'm saying that the first time you ever even read the verses you quotes was on the Islamic apologetic website where it's presented out of context and interpreted for you by some iman that probably has spent just a fraction more time than you have to learn about the Bible. You then run here and present these conclusions as if they're your own. I on the other hand had literally NEVER read one commentary on the Koran before opening it. I assumed it would be an intelligible book that at least had some literary value, even if I didn't agree with the theology. After putting it down I was shocked by my impression. I thought there was possibly some deficiency in my reading. How could this book, considered a masterpiece in the Muslim world, be so unintelligible. It was as if there were no structure to it whatsoever, just somebody stringing random thoughts together. It also seemed as if the Koran just said the same things over and over. It was only after reading commentary on the book that I learned the entire Western world feels the same way.

 

[arthra]

Please read my full message to fully understand what i was saying, i was quoting those verses to make a smoke-screen to give a example how people attack other religions.

I hope you will read my message's that i posted before.

O.K. ... You know though this was brought up earlier on this thread

See:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2863610-post119.html

and I guess the reason I responded here was because it wasn't the first time it appeared that people did not understand the verses.

I think we have to show respect for all the Messengers of God.. Jesus and Prophet Muhammad..

Narrated Abu Huraira:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest
of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the
prophets are paternal brothers, and there has
been no prophet between me and him (i.e.
Jesus)."

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652:

 

[F0uad]

I'm saying that the first time you ever even read the verses you quotes was on the Islamic apologetic website where it's presented out of context and interpreted for you by some iman that probably has spent just a fraction more time than you have to learn about the Bible. You then run here and present these conclusions as if they're your own. I on the other hand had literally NEVER read one commentary on the Koran before opening it. I assumed it would be an intelligible book that at least had some literary value, even if I didn't agree with the theology. After putting it down I was shocked by my impression. I thought there was possibly some deficiency in my reading. How could this book, considered a masterpiece in the Muslim world, be so unintelligible. It was as if there were no structure to it whatsoever, just somebody stringing random thoughts together. It also seemed as if the Koran just said the same things over and over. It was only after reading commentary on the book that I learned the entire Western world feels the same way.

Again your assuming i belief these things that i mentioned I SAID ""I DO NOT BELIEF THOSE THINGS"" now stop wining about things if i used them for a example and actually try to read once in your live-time.

What has a imam to do with a anti-religious websites NONE, Imams do not spread hatred nor disrespects any other religion like you did and still do i was simply giving conclusions based on reason and logic but i never said they were true i actually denied they were true.

I have done research in the bible for 2years and actually learned some greek in the time i researched and studied the scriptures, like i said before i was not claiming anything i was giving examples on how people attack religions may it be Islam or Christianity.

And i really don't care what you think about the Quran because more people have problems with the Bible then the Quran and your argument about ''entire Western world feels the same way.'' is not even worth replying on because you forgot that Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the west, east, south, north whatever.

Thanks for showing that you cannot stick to the things you claimed, are you still going to show us how Mohammed(saws) was not a man of peace or not? With some Historical evidence please..

 

[F0uad]

O.K. ... You know though this was brought up earlier on this thread

See:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2863610-post119.html

and I guess the reason I responded here was because it wasn't the first time it appeared that people did not understand the verses.

I think we have to show respect for all the Messengers of God.. Jesus and Prophet Muhammad..

Narrated Abu Huraira:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest
of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the
prophets are paternal brothers, and there has
been no prophet between me and him (i.e.
Jesus)."

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652:

I know thanks for quoting that yet Junglej25 doesn't feel the same-way about it.
I know many people are trying to quote out of context and that was the example i was giving, that people make a ''Smoke-Screen'' about a figure and then make assumptions based on a verse.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

.

Thanks for showing that you cannot stick to the things you claimed, are you still going to show us how Mohammed(saws) was not a man of peace or not? With some Historical evidence please..

Regarding whether or not Mohammed was a man of peace, I would first like to establish things that even a Muslim won't argue about. How much of his life was spent in war?

 

[F0uad]

Regarding whether or not Mohammed was a man of peace, I would first like to establish things that even a Muslim won't argue about. How much of his life was spent in war?

Something around 10year...

Did you know the casualties with enemies and friendlies in total was 1500, while in the bible it says Moses(p) ordered the killing of 3000 in one single day because they were worshipping a golden statue?

 

[beerisit]

Something around 10year...

Did you know the casualties with enemies and friendlies in total was 1500, while in the bible it says Moses(p) ordered the killing of 3000 in one single day because they were worshipping a golden statue?

Stalin didn't cause as many deaths as Hitler so that makes him a good man.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

In comparison for the time btw, Jesus only spent 3 years in his ministry so should we stress the other 30 or so years of his life? Does it really matter the duration of such things but rather the emphasis in terms of the message they were attempting to convey and the effect they were able to achieve.

 

[F0uad]

Like i said the wars of Mohammed(saws) can be justified i already gave a example of how merciful Mohammed(saws) was against hes enemies now show me where he is morally wrong on all fronts.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Something around 10year...

Did you know the casualties with enemies and friendlies in total was 1500, while in the bible it says Moses(p) ordered the killing of 3000 in one single day because they were worshipping a golden statue?

Moses however came around 1700 years before Mohammed. It's not unreasonable to expect an evolution in human behavior to take place within that time period. The bottom line is that Muslims no doubt have an explanation for every encounter Mohammed was in. I'm sure Muslims will claim that in each altercation it was "the other guy's fault". People who are divisive always say that FWIW. As we are 1300 years after the events it's going to be a little more difficult to verify these claims. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the historical accounts of these wars were written by Muslims meaning they surely presented Mohammed in the most favorable light possible, to say the least. As I said before, I've learned to be very suspicious of people who can't live with their neighbors in peace. I can't help but feel that Mohammed represents a step backward to the example Jesus set who lived 33 years in total peace with wretched neighbors.

 

[F0uad]

Moses however came around 1700 years before Mohammed. It's not unreasonable to expect an evolution in human behavior to take place within that time period. The bottom line is that Muslims no doubt have an explanation for every encounter Mohammed was in. I'm sure Muslims will claim that in each altercation it was "the other guy's fault". As we are 1300 years after the events it's going to be a little more difficult to verify these claims. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the historical accounts of these wars were written by Muslims meaning they surely presented Mohammed in the most favorable light possible, to say the least. As I said before, I've learned to be very suspicious of people who can't live with their neighbors in peace. I can't help but feel that Mohammed represents a step backward to the example Jesus set who lived 33 years in total peace with wretched neighbors.

So wait because Mohammed(saws) lived in a different place, with harder rules and in a different time therefore he could not have been peacefully if that is the case Moses(p) according to you was also not peacefully and don't try to throw a evolution case in it, gods law and order has nothing to do with evolution. Jesus(p) didn't had any authority he could never have fighten back nor was hes task, the jews already believed the right things Jesus(p) was simply send to give a ''Spiritual touch'' to open the hearts of the jews

What do you mean by verify these claims its all there... No the majority of the historical accounts used by Western and Eastern were written(and orally transmitted) by Muslims, Non-Muslim and Jews its not just one side against the other side.

Like the muslims on this forum have shown you and i have that Mohammed(saws) messages was the same ''Love your neighbour'' if you keep insisting using ''some'' muslims that abuse Islam then i can do the same about Christianity and Atheism what has the most Deaths on there hands. I find those arguments very offensive and not intellectual at all.

 

[arthra]

I can't help but feel that Mohammed represents a step backward to the example Jesus set who lived 33 years in total peace with wretched neighbors.

Here's some thoughts..

The only recorded sources of the life of Jesus are some of His childhood and after His ministry began..so really a brief three years. The Romans occupied Judea and the areas surrounding it. Rome was probably at the height of it's power and taxed the people. For these reasons Jesus did not teach armed resistance but rather a more passive form of nonresistance.. so the people could survive.. Carry the extra burden.. go the extra mile.. turn the other cheek.. pay your taxes.

The situation of the Prophet Muhammad was different..

For the first years from HIs revelation on Mount Hira to the Hijra the Prophet was persecuted and maligned. He was about forty years old when He first received revelation.

For about three years He preached publicly.

Muslims fled to Ethiopa for asylum.. The Muslims were under an emgargo.. and a plot was hatched to assassinate the Prophet in His own bed..

Finally after He was fifty two years old or about twelve years after His revelation on Mount Hira God revealed to Him that He must go to Medina and permitted defence of the new Faith.

In ten years Mecca fell to the new Faith and the Arab tribes were united as never before.

So the first twelve years Prophet Muhammad was persecuted and the believers were abused.. The last ten years of His life God permitted resistance and defence of the Faith.

 

[FearGod]

Lesley Hazleton a non muslim honest woman had studied the holy book
of the quran to search for the truth,what did she find

[youtube]3Y2Or0LlO6g[/youtube]
Lesley Hazleton: A "tourist" reads the Koran - YouTube

 

[FearGod]

What did "non muslims" say about Mohammed pbuh

[youtube]jipNtRw0PVc[/youtube]
‫

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Moses however came around 1700 years before Mohammed. It's not unreasonable to expect an evolution in human behavior to take place within that time period. The bottom line is that Muslims no doubt have an explanation for every encounter Mohammed was in. I'm sure Muslims will claim that in each altercation it was "the other guy's fault". People who are divisive always say that FWIW. As we are 1300 years after the events it's going to be a little more difficult to verify these claims. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the historical accounts of these wars were written by Muslims meaning they surely presented Mohammed in the most favorable light possible, to say the least. As I said before, I've learned to be very suspicious of people who can't live with their neighbors in peace. I can't help but feel that Mohammed represents a step backward to the example Jesus set who lived 33 years in total peace with wretched neighbors.

Jesus says in Luke 12:49,50 & 51
49 ‘I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and what stress I am under until it is completed! 51Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division!

So "The Prince of Peace " boasts that he had not come to bring peace on earth but fire and division !!