Was Mohammed a man of peace ? - as his last words were to curse the Christians and the Jews

[FearGod]

so that did not actual happen then or?

People through the history changed some facts by distorting the holy books
of the old testaments(Torah) and the new testaments(enjeel)

prepared By: Magdy Abdalshafy
The Holy Book is no longer God's word , inside the Holy Book there are a large number of contradictions between the words, the facts and the statements, there are also many historical anachronisms, scientific absurdities and much other human adulteration.
Read More​

God promised to keep his final holy book (quran) to be preserved forever and i guess
that is done by the amazing memorization of the whole holy book by the minds of people through the history till today,verse by verse,from first paper to the end one.

But the people find their way to the hadith
Some is kept safe and authentic and some others unfortunately were
distorted or inserted,so we always should be aware when reading any
hadith as it was collected by people about what prophet mohammed peace
be upon him had said or did.

 

[EvidenceOfAbsence]

The real question about this thread I suppose is: Can you think critically and make a fair investigation of someone who cannot be criticized by Muslims without fear of apostasy or god seeing into your heart and punishing your doubt.

Regardless, I think the advantage Islam has over Christianity is that multiple reliable sources have confirmed the existence and historical significance of Mohammed.

Without the unsubstantiated divine claims in the holy books though, you have to judge him upon the merits of an individual. For which there is mixed claims of positive and negative morality. I just think that as a Theist, your critical thinking might be somewhat hindered by the fear of divine punishment.

 

[Quagmire]

I'm not a Muslim, so I can say with some objectivity that all this post looks like to me is a propaganda speech based on a lot of selective perceptions that add up to unfair generalizations:

Well apparently every one of the hundreds of quotes that Muhammad made about violence perpetrated on children, or until they acknowledge Islam, or cutting off hands and feet and refusing to cautarize them, or the murder of individuals who spoke against him or etc........ are perfect examples of the benevolence of Islam so I was wrong in believeing that a man who fought 68 battles and many raids perputrated any of them without them being forced on him. The fact that within 100 years of his death his followers had fought strictly defensive battles across N africa, Spain, the Ottoman empire, and the middle east are examples of the peaceful nature of Islam. I am sure the tens of thousands chanting in the streets after some dispicable cowards smashed a few planes into buildings and killed women and children, the muslim who screamed allahu akbar before killing fellow soldier at ft Hood, or the thousands upon thousands chanting death to American in the dowtown squares of cities of muslim countries led by their rightous Imams should be viewed as conduct worthy of praise. The fatwas pronounced against writers, cartoon drawers, school teachers, and death sentences given many wanting to convert out of that mess to Christianity are indications of the long suffering patience of adherents of the religion. I could list these undebatable examples of Islamic tolerance and virtue forever. I do not hate any Muslim however I hate much that has been done by some of the more radical memebers in the name of Allah, Muhammad, and Islam as well as hateing what the crusaders did in the crusades or the catholics with the inquisistion (but in Christianity violence seems to be the exception but with Islam peace is the exception especially during my life time) . I will hand it to you though that you have made a valiant attempt at defending the indefensable.

I am required to hate any philosophy or religion that is false but also forbidden to hate the poor misguided adherents to these systems.

Proverbs 13:5The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked bring shame and disgrace.

As I am not interested in haveing a peaceful verse contest then I will suspend my replies at this time. However I wish peace and wisdom to you.

Selah

To me, it looks like you have no viable rebuttal for the post you were replying to so you decided to deliver a sermon instead.

I think this post sums up alot of the West's and especially Christian's frustrations and suspicions about Islam.

It does, but probably not in the way it was intended to.

When you combine this knowledge with the fact that the Koran appears to be an incoherent, poorly written piece of literature, it's just hard to take his claims of prophethood seriously.

You mean when you combine the previous posters subjective, prejudicial rhetoric with your own?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

.



You mean when you combine the previous posters subjective, prejudicial rhetoric with your own?

I've learned to always be suspicious of people who can't seem to live side by side with their neighbor in peace. Of course such people usually have cleverly crafted apologetics detailing why it's the other guy's fault but the reality is that such people often have their own character issues which keep them from being peace makers.

 

[Quagmire]

I've learned to always be suspicious of people who can't seem to live side by side with their neighbor in peace.

Me too.

Of course such people usually have cleverly crafted apologetics detailing why it's the other guy's fault

And sometimes, not-so-cleverly crafted apologetics.

but the reality is that such people often have their own character issues which keep them from being peace makers.

Exactly.

 

[illykitty]

I personally think he was, from a lot of things I have heard and read. For example, Mohammed encouraged kindness towards animals. Treating animals badly is a serious offence in Islam. There are several stories about kindness towards animals.

One of them being, the Prophet had a pet named Mu'Izza, his favourite cat. One day, he got woken up by the call to prayer. He was clothing himself but then he discovered Mu'Izza sleeping on the sleeve of his robe. So instead of waking the cat up, he cut up the sleeve. So cats hold a dear place in Muslims' hearts.

Another is, a companion of the Prophet was wiping his horse very nicely. Someone said, "what are you doing?" he responded that the Prophet reprimanded him the day before about the way he cared about his horse and now he's making sure he's looking after it.

Another one, this one I've heard several times, a prostitute saw a thirsty dog. She felt sorry for the poor animal and went and got water for it in her shoe. The Prophet said all of her sins will be forgiven, because she showed kindness to an animal.

Lastly, one of Prophet Muhammad’s companions narrates, “We were on a journey and during the Prophet’s absence, we saw a bird with its two chicks; we took them. The mother bird was circling above us in the air, beating its wings in grief. When Prophet Muhammad returned he said, “Who has hurt the feelings of this bird by taking its chicks? Return them to her.”

So how can a man who was so loving to animals not being called a man of peace? Kindness to an animal takes a lot more effort than kindness toward another human being.

 

[arthra]

Thanks for sharing that...!

 

[loverOfTruth]

Well apparently every one of the hundreds of quotes that Muhammad made about violence perpetrated on children, or until they acknowledge Islam, or cutting off hands and feet and refusing to cautarize them, or the murder of individuals who spoke against him or etc........ are perfect examples of the benevolence of Islam so I was wrong in believeing that a man who fought 68 battles and many raids perputrated any of them without them being forced on him. The fact that within 100 years of his death his followers had fought strictly defensive battles across N africa, Spain, the Ottoman empire, and the middle east are examples of the peaceful nature of Islam. I am sure the tens of thousands chanting in the streets after some dispicable cowards smashed a few planes into buildings and killed women and children, the muslim who screamed allahu akbar before killing fellow soldier at ft Hood, or the thousands upon thousands chanting death to American in the dowtown squares of cities of muslim countries led by their rightous Imams should be viewed as conduct worthy of praise. The fatwas pronounced against writers, cartoon drawers, school teachers, and death sentences given many wanting to convert out of that mess to Christianity are indications of the long suffering patience of adherents of the religion. I could list these undebatable examples of Islamic tolerance and virtue forever. I do not hate any Muslim however I hate much that has been done by some of the more radical memebers in the name of Allah, Muhammad, and Islam as well as hateing what the crusaders did in the crusades or the catholics with the inquisistion (but in Christianity violence seems to be the exception but with Islam peace is the exception especially during my life time) . I will hand it to you though that you have made a valiant attempt at defending the indefensable.

That pretty much sums up the height of ignorance, hatred and double standard towards muslims. How is what the crusaders did in the name of Jesus/christianity different from what some misguided muslims do in the name of Islam/Allah. And they both supposedly get their viewpoint from their respective scriptures. And as I have shown through examples of biblical verses that you can find way more violence in the scripture of Christianity than the scripture of Islam.

Basically, after failing to prove your points with all those embarassingly misrepresented/false quotes, you start a sermon blaming the followers of Islam. Again, I can show from history which group of followers killed more.

I am required to hate any philosophy or religion that is false but also forbidden to hate the poor misguided adherents to these systems.

Proverbs 13:5The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked bring shame and disgrace.

As I am not interested in haveing a peaceful verse contest then I will suspend my replies at this time. However I wish peace and wisdom to you.

Selah

Thanks ...But I'd rather stick to the Qur'an which tells me to repel evil with good as follows as :
"And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend." (Al Quran 41:34)

I've learned to always be suspicious of people who can't seem to live side by side with their neighbor in peace. Of course such people usually have cleverly crafted apologetics detailing why it's the other guy's fault but the reality is that such people often have their own character issues which keep them from being peace makers.

And you are saying this after supporting the poster full of hate and no inclination towards peace ? Anyone can see that the Christians in this thread are the guilty one of breaking the peace and of instigating hatred and falsehood(as proven by all the rebuttals), not the muslims. Look to yourself before you look far away. Moreover, you probably didn't read what I said regarding the status of neighbor in Islam.

* The Messenger(pbuh) of Allah(God) said: "He will not enter Paradise whose neighbor is not secure from his wrongful conduct."

So essentially suggesting that even a Muslim will not enter paradise unless his/her neighbor is secure from the muslim's bad conduct. And finally my offer of Peace still stands.

I hope and pray that one day you all realize just like this lady did.
[youtube]9Fsz73clcWc[/youtube]
Ex islam-Hater converts to islam - YouTube

Peace.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Thanks ...But I'd rather stick to the Qur'an which tells me to repel evil with good as follows as :
"And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend." (Al Quran 41:34)



.

Do you realize this concept was ripped right out of the Bible?

Matthew 5: 14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

'No-one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.' (Luke 8:16)

He said to them, 'Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand? For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.' (Mark 4:21–23)

"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12"

John 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”


The Gospels especially use this metaphor of light for good deeds and darkness for bad deeds with the instructions to "repel" darkness with the light of our deeds.

 

[F0uad]

Do you realize this concept was ripped right out of the Bible?

Matthew 5: 14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

'No-one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.' (Luke 8:16)

He said to them, 'Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand? For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.' (Mark 4:21–23)

"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12"

John 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”


The Gospels especially use this metaphor of light for good deeds and darkness for bad deeds with the instructions to "repel" darkness with the light of our deeds.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Do you realize this concept was ripped right out of the Bible?

Matthew 5: 14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

'No-one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.' (Luke 8:16)

He said to them, 'Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand? For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.' (Mark 4:21–23)

"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12"

John 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Yet again shamelessly comes up with one more lie without an iota of evidence and yet I don't see any mention of light/lamp in that quranic verse. Or do I have to think the way you think 3 is 1 to make it look like the quranic verse ? I see no resemblance whatsoever.

The Gospels especially use this metaphor of light for good deeds and darkness for bad deeds with the instructions to "repel" darkness with the light of our deeds.

And yet you are doing just the opposite ?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Yet again shamelessly comes up with one more lie without an iota of evidence and yet I don't see any mention of light/lamp in that quranic verse. Or do I have to think the way you think 3 is 1 to make it look like the quranic verse ? I see no resemblance whatsoever.

Again, it's a literary device called a "metaphor" that is the main difference between the Koranic verse and the Gospel verses. The meaning is virtually identical.

 

[F0uad]

Again, it's a literary device called a "metaphor" that is the main difference between the Koranic verse and the Gospel verses. The meaning is virtually identical.

The Egyptians believed in god's and Jesus(p) in one god he stole the idea ''gods'' and changed it into ''One God''...

Same argument..
I hope you understand that your assumptions and arguments are really not logical nor even understandable.


Who’s more foolish the fool or the fool who follows him. BY Obi-Wan

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The Egyptians believed in god's and Jesus(p) in one god he stole the idea ''gods'' and changed it into ''One God''...

Same argument..
I hope you understand that your assumptions and arguments are really not logical nor even understandable.


Who’s more foolish the fool or the fool who follows him. BY Obi-Wan

Except here Mohammed didn't change ANY meaning. He took virtually the EXACT SAME concept and changed the wording a little bit.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The Egyptians believed in god's and Jesus(p) in one god he stole the idea ''gods'' and changed it into ''One God''...

Same argument..
I hope you understand that your assumptions and arguments are really not logical nor even understandable.


Who’s more foolish the fool or the fool who follows him. BY Obi-Wan

I also find it interesting that a Muslim would speak so disrespectly about Jesus who they claim to believe is the greatest prophet next to Mohammed. I'm not terribly surprised however. Muslims seem largly ignorant about the man they claim to respect so much. It seems to me that most Muslims I've talked to get the vast majority of their knowledge about the Gospels from apologetic websites devoted to trying to disprove the claims of Christianity

 

[F0uad]

Except here Mohammed didn't change ANY meaning. He took virtually the EXACT SAME concept and changed the wording a little bit.

Damn can't you think before you post serious i have a headaches of the face palms i used in this thread.

I can bring forth more over then 50 arguments but i will simply address the simpler ones for you to understand.


If there is a confirmation in the Quran of what the bible teaches does that mean its copied or fixed? No it means that those teachings in the bible are still intact.

Your argument fails simply because i was giving a example ill use a different example Christians belief in the Trinity and use Biblical reference's to support it yet Greeks, Romans and Pagans had the same idea of god. Do you understand my point or do i have to address everything?

If anything that Mohammed(saws) mentioned wasn't a revelation we can simply look at the history and hes biography for any confirmation of what you have said or any possibility yet there is none. To think he knew everything what the bible mentions or says and actually refutes some of the ideas is like saying he was Einstein because in that time everyone had already a belief-system.

I can go on and on.. but i don't see any point of doing so.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Except here Mohammed didn't change ANY meaning. He took virtually the EXACT SAME concept and changed the wording a little bit.

I am not surprised that you are still trying... but even if I were to take your point that light= good deed in those biblical quotes - all they say is you shine your light upon others ... nowhere does it say that you do good even if someone does evil to you to befriend them. Try harder

 

[F0uad]

I also find it interesting that a Muslim would speak so disrespectly about Jesus who they claim to believe is the greatest prophet next to Mohammed. I'm not terribly surprised however. Muslims seem largly ignorant about the man they claim to respect so much. It seems to me that most Muslims I've talked to get the vast majority of their knowledge about the Gospels from apologetic websites devoted to trying to disprove the claims of Christianity

I didn't disrespect him i was giving a example that you simply didn't understand, don't blame me for it. Each time that i say Jesus i end hes name with (peace be upon him) as token for respect so i do respect him more then you do.

We belief that Christians dis-respect Jesus(p) by claiming that he said he was god or at-least he taught he was, he would never make that claim because that's one of the most terrible thing you can do in Islam.

Wait you said ''Apologetic websites'' where did i use a argument or quoted anything from a ''Anti-Religion'' website its you who did that.. :sarcastic

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I am not surprised that you are still trying... but even if I were to take your point that light= good deed in those biblical quotes - all they say is you shine your light upon others ... nowhere does it say that you do good even if someone does evil to you to befriend them. Try harder

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," Luke 6:27. By definition, doing good (shining your light)includes loving one's enemies.

 

[F0uad]

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," Luke 6:27

I would disagree with both of you simply because the Quran tells us to defend ourselves you cannot stand watching how your woman gets killed or your children you have to act. Its also forbidden to not to protect yourself...

If we used Luke 6:27 literally whole Europe would have been German.