Was Mohammed a man of peace ? - as his last words were to curse the Christians and the Jews

[-Peacemaker-]

I would disagree with both of you simply because the Quran tells us to defend ourselves you cannot stand watching how your woman gets killed or your children you have to act. Its also forbidden to not to protect yourself...

If we used Luke 6:27 literally whole Europe would have been German.

Do you really believe Jesus is telling us to ignore justice, especially for the weak and downtrodden? Is that really the picture of Jesus that the Gospels give us?

 

[F0uad]

Do you really believe Jesus is telling us to ignore justice, especially for the weak and downtrodden? Is that really the picture of Jesus that the Gospels give us?

First of all what has enemies to do with justice, weak people or ''downtrodden''?
Do you know how silly you sound.. what has anything you said to do with Luke that you quoted?

 

[FearGod]

I also find it interesting that a Muslim would speak so disrespectly about Jesus who they claim to believe is the greatest prophet next to Mohammed. I'm not terribly surprised however. Muslims seem largly ignorant about the man they claim to respect so much. It seems to me that most Muslims I've talked to get the vast majority of their knowledge about the Gospels from apologetic websites devoted to trying to disprove the claims of Christianity

We do respect Jesus peace be upon him similar to Mohammed peace be upon him but we never worship a man born in the occupied Palestine called Jesus.

Do you think that millions of Americans and europeans whom are converting are stupids,
they did so after a long study about islam and they dont hear from me or you but they
listen to logic and to their hearts.

One more information for you.

Muslims are waiting for Jesus peace be upon him to be back to earth and they are not waiting for Mohammed peace be upon him.

The world is changing and me and you cant stop it because god decided it.

[youtube]cp5aKK5ajyU[/youtube]
FOX TV News : Islam Worlds Most Growing Religion - YouTube

[youtube]VTRR7z9Vc5I[/youtube]
1.5 Million Americans converted to ISLAM in USA -CNN News - YouTube

 

[-Peacemaker-]

First of all what has enemies to do with justice, weak people or ''downtrodden''?
Do you know how silly you sound.. what has anything you said to do with Luke that you quoted?

Does Jesus really believe that trying to stop injustice constitutes a violation of his command to "turn the other cheek"? If a maniac is going on a killing spree, is Jesus telling us to ignore it? If a woman is being raped are we supposed to stand by idly?

 

[F0uad]

Does Jesus really believe that trying to stop injustice from taking place constitutes a violation of his command to "turn the other cheek"?

The verse you quoted wasn't about ''Injustice or Justice'' it was about the enemy don't mix the two.

Like i said it depends on how you interpret the verses as i said earlier if you take it literally you would have your enemy kill you and Europe would have been German by now.

I never said that Jesus(p) didn't preached or taught people to love one and other but i do not belief that hes teaching was meant to let people die when someone is doing unjustified things towards you. If you want to interpret those verses like that be my guest, but then do not lie.. or make up stories like you did before if you sincere belief in turning the other cheek and ''loving your enemy''.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The verse you quoted wasn't about ''Injustice or Justice'' it was about the enemy don't mix the two.

Like i said it depends on how you interpret the verses as i said earlier if you take it literally you would have your enemy kill you and Europe would have been German by now.

I never said that Jesus(p) didn't preached or taught people to love one and other but i do not belief that hes teaching was meant to let people die when someone is doing unjustified things towards you. If you want to interpret those verses like that be my guest, but then do not lie.. or make up stories like you did before if you sincere belief in turning the other cheek and ''loving your enemy''.

Is Jesus saying to ignore it when people suffer at the hands of others or is he saying to not repay violence with violence? Are there not peaceful forms of protest? Have not men like Martin Luther King and Ghandi demonstrated that such protests can be very effective? Did King not only win rights for blacks but also the hearts of many Americans of all races through his pacifism?

 

[Quagmire]

Except here Mohammed didn't change ANY meaning. He took virtually the EXACT SAME concept and changed the wording a little bit.

Do you realize this concept was ripped right out of the Bible?.

There were no copies of the Bible, OT or NT, available in Arabic in Mohammed's day. There's no way Mohammed could have copied anything from the Bible.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

There were no copies of the Bible, OT or NT, available in Arabic in Mohammed's day. There's no way Mohammed could have copied anything from the Bible.

It was an oral culture. He had contact with Christians and Jews. Them sharing their sciptures with Mohammed would've been very feasible regardless of the presence of written documents.

 

[Quagmire]

It was an oral culture. He had contact with Christians and Jews. Them sharing their sciptures with Mohammed would've been very feasible regardless of the presence of written documents.

Feasible but not necessary. The idea of Love thy neighbor is an almost universally held tenet:

Aid an enemy before you aid a friend, to subdue hatred.
--Judaism. Tosefta, Baba Metzia 2.26


Do good to him who has done you an injury.
--Taoism. Tao Te Ching 63


Man should subvert anger by forgiveness, subdue pride by modesty, overcome hypocrisy with simplicity, and greed by contentment.
--Jainism. Samanasuttam 136


God said, "Resemble Me; just as I repay good for evil so do you also repay good for evil."
--Judaism. Exodus Rabbah 26.2


May generosity triumph over niggardliness,
May love triumph over contempt,
May the true-spoken word triumph over the false-spoken word,
May truth triumph over falsehood.
--Zoroastrianism. Yasna 60.5

You might as well say that Jesus ripped off Lao Tzu.

 

[FearGod]

Post Deleted

You are saying that all suiciders of the 21 century are muslims,then islam is bad.
good that only in the 21 century and not in the 20 or the 19th century,what about
the 18th century.

If one christian made a bad thing,then all christians are bad people,that is funny,
what do you think of people are stupids to believe such nonsense.

if Hetler is bad,then all christians are bad,how funny.it seems you arent able to
find excuses for your claim.

The most funny is slaughtering the animal,yes you are right we should slaughter
animals in the hospital and using anesthetics or no need to eat meat at all,
yes you are right on this one they eat meat and that is bad.

mutilate our children's genitalia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What that,ist a verse or Hadith,please explain this to us,because i dont know
anything of such nonsense.

You said finaly that following the islamic law lead to a failure state,then i would
ask you to read the history and google for the islamic empire and its effect in europe
and the world,from spain to the far east china,malaysia.

You want to accept it or not,islam is growing in rapid speed

islam is not arabic,is not hindu,is not a man
islam is your direct relation with god,names arent important
i can call my self a believer in the only one god,believing that
he sent his prophets and their holy books,thats it.

 

[arthra]

If Islam is a religion of peace, then why are all suicide bombers in the 21st century Muslim?

I don't think suicide is endorsed by Islam nor is killing innocent people... The last group of people that committed similar acts were called anarchists, nihilists bomb throwers and goes back to the 1880s...associated with terrorists then.

It breeds immorality, and if you claim the Islamic morality is superior, we don't mutilate our children's genitalia and slaughter animals inhumanely while inciting the word of a god that no reasonable person would believe in.

Islamic culture is not always Islam.. You're talking about practises and rituals that have been around before Islam and are not necessarily exclisive to it. "Inciting the word of God" is also not exclusive to Islam as to whether a reasonable person would believe it that too can vary with each person.

If Allah actually existed, then why would all the states that decided to introduce Sharia law be a complete and utter failiure? The only Islamic states with any sort of global influence or wealth are the ones that are lucky enough to be stated atop massive material reserves like Saudi Arabia. Surely if Allah existed, he wouldn't want to set a bad example by making every state that introduced his ideology a war torn failure.

Up until around the fifteenth century Islamic states were comparatively advanced so consider that in your anaylsis.... Sharia law is based on jurispudence and traditions and can vary from state to state in application..You might read the following article on Sharia to appreciate the complexity:

Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If Allah exists and I believe He does He is not bound by a single law code derived from traditions or jurisprudence over centuries of time. As to states being a war torn failure.. states come and go and political and economic collapse is largely a phenomenon of human societies...

If Islam is the fastest growing religion, then people unwilling to tolerate it's idiocy are growing even faster, join the club.

If you consider what is the "fastest growing religion" you have to consider when you start the race and who are the competitors you accept.. consider birth rates.. immigration in a given country... and statistical variants. What maybe the fastest growing religion today may not be the same tomorrow.

 

[cablescavenger]

History tells us Mohammed was involved in war almost all of his adult life ,i know alot of Muslims say he was attacked but IMO the man who was to be an example to all Muslims should have asked allah to protect him instead of using his followers to conquer the whole of arbia ,history also says islam was spread by the sword.

Alot of muslim will point to he crusades and say christianty was also spread by the sword - yes it happaned those men abused there believe and used it for there gain the difference is the founder of islam was the one who spread islam by the sword and apart from that his last word were to curse the christians and the jews ...so tell me what makes Muhammad a man of peace ?

yes he united the tribes - but that does not mean anyhing as if a criminal unites criminal tribes does that make him a man of peace ?

point to ponder:when Jesus was attacked and taken to the cross to be tortured - he gave him self up - his last words were to forgive those who tortured him

I think he was a man of peas. Mushy were his favourite (allegedly).

 

[loverOfTruth]

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," Luke 6:27. By definition, doing good (shining your light)includes loving one's enemies.

Very funny.....that's not what you quoted originally. Instead you tried to connect some ambiguous quote from Bible to Qur'an until I pushed you to try harder. And now that you have found something close, you should know as one of the other poster noted, you'll find the similar teaching in all religion. The only reason I quoted this from Qur'an is because 1robin said bible asks you to hate instead I showed the Qur'an asks you to be good to haters like him.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," Luke 6:27. By definition, doing good (shining your light)includes loving one's enemies.

Jesus says in Luke 12:49,50 & 51
49 ‘I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and what stress I am under until it is completed! 51Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division!

So "The Prince of Peace " boasts that he had not come to bring peace on earth but fire and division !!

 

[loverOfTruth]

I would disagree with both of you simply because the Quran tells us to defend ourselves you cannot stand watching how your woman gets killed or your children you have to act. Its also forbidden to not to protect yourself...

If we used Luke 6:27 literally whole Europe would have been German.

I am not sure if the 'both' included me. In case it did, let me clarify my point regarding quoting the Quranic verse of 'repelling evil with good'. If you have seen my statements all throughout this thread, I have repeatedly said that if attacked, muslims are required to and will defend them and whoever is oppressed. If physical safety of people are involved, there is no question that muslims are supposed to defend. But my point regarding that verse was in case someone throws a hateful slur at you without physically hurting you, you can forgive and respond with goodness instead of the same hateful reaction.

 

[loverOfTruth]

It was an oral culture. He had contact with Christians and Jews. Them sharing their sciptures with Mohammed would've been very feasible regardless of the presence of written documents.

In this regard, Dr. Jamal Badawi's statements are worth noting. He says: “It would be highly imaginary to say that through his occasional chats with Jews and Christians, while busy with his caravan, Muhammad, learned enough about either or both religions to formulate a new powerful and viable religion, a task that defies the collective efforts of scholars for centuries.” as is the case for Christianity and Judaism.

 

[tumbleweed41]

MOD POST

Some posts may have been edited or deleted during thread clean-up to remove references to the original deleted post.
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[F0uad]

Is Jesus saying to ignore it when people suffer at the hands of others or is he saying to not repay violence with violence? Are there not peaceful forms of protest? Have not men like Martin Luther King and Ghandi demonstrated that such protests can be very effective? Did King not only win rights for blacks but also the hearts of many Americans of all races through his pacifism?

I am not sure why you are twisting words and arguments, i never said Jesus(p) didn't taught those things but i was talking about the verse you quoted don't run away from it.

I said if you take Luke ''LITERALLY'' then how can you repay the violence someone is committing against you with self-defence you cannot therefore you can also not defend the others who are in need of defence.

Ghandi and Martin Luther king never taught to let yourself die but rather to defend yourself against Oppression and sickness, protesting is peace is something else then letting people kill you or your family.

Back to the TOPIC:

When you are going to attack Mohammed(saws) of not being a man of peace please quote us Historical Evidence where he did things unjustified and was really violent as you like to portrait him i will give you one example how he as a merciful person:

During the battle of Uhr in the 3rd year of Hijra, the Meccans the unbelievers of the Qureisch they send a army of 3000 to plunder the city of Medina. The prophet dispatched a army of 700 himself included to defend the city, during this battle the prophet suffered serious of tragic events. For example he witnessed in front of hes own eyes the slaughter of hes blessed companions, the slaughter of hes family members, Saidn Hamza(ra) the prophet's uncle (more like a brother) he was killed, hes body militated hes nose and ears cut off from hes body, hes internal organs removed and cannibalized on the battlefield. The prophet(saws) himself suffered multiple injuries on hes face, blood was poring down on the blessed face of Mohammed(saws) the messenger of god. Do you know what he was doing... He was trying to catch the blood with hes hands and sleeves, then he told hes companions ''if one drop blood spills on the floor a terrible tragedy punishment will sentimentally happen on the Qureisch'' (hes enemy). Hes companions said o messenger of god let the blood flow and let the punishment come, then Mohammed(saws) replied i came as mercy not to curse, then they saw him a short time later with hes hands raised.. Did he finally curse hes enemies? You know what he said.. O God guide my people for they don't know, even in such situations he refused to curse hes enemies but only prayed for there guides. Then a several year later the leader of the unbelievers themselves converted to Islam.


Now this is not mythology these are historical facts and if you took a look into your own bible you would know that messengers and prophets portrayed in your holy-book are not holy at all.
I gave you one example i can give you over 50 examples straight out of my head.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I said if you take Luke ''LITERALLY'' then how can you repay the violence someone is committing against you with self-defence you cannot therefore you can also not defend the others who are in need of defence.

Correction: If you take Jesus' words out of CONTEXT, you can make them fit your meaning

 

[Quagmire]

Correction: If you take Jesus' words out of CONTEXT, you can make them fit your meaning

How about showing the context instead of making a vague accusation?


edit: or was that supposed to be a debating tip?