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Was Mohammed a man of peace ? - as his last words were to curse the Christians and the Jews
- Thread starter markymark
- Start date
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
1robin, first of all, let me make something very clear - if you are expecting me to defend every single thing ever written by any muslim, you are only kidding yourself. That would be the biggest joke of the century. I'll only deal with something from
a)the Qur'an - word of God or
b) Sahih(authentic) Hadith (i.e. Bukhari, Muslim) - sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
So let's start with that ....
Now read the actual Hadith :
Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
So you can see your research assistant conveniently forgot to quote the part in the parenthesis (which means Terror here is the fear that Allah has put into the hearts of the disbelievers). And even if it means otherwise, in the context of War, I wouldn't have any problem with it because this Hadith is noted in the section of Warfare. What do you expect ? When the oppressors attack the Prophet(pbuh) and the muslims, he would sit back, relax and just chill ? No, we are supposed to root out oppression with strength.
Again, I could not find a single translation that says "I shall terrorize the infidels". See it for yourself : Surat Al-'Anfal [8:12] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
This is what it actually says : "[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): 'I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them'." (Al-Qur'an 8:12)
This is God speaking to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), assuring him that God is with the believers and He will put fear in the disbeliever's hearts during the war, so fight with strength. I wouldn't have any problem with it because even when you are in a war, you rely upon God. Again, what do you expect ? When the oppressors attack the Prophet(pbuh) and the muslims, he would sit back, relax and just chill ? No, we are supposed to root out oppression with strength.
This is what it actually says : "If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember." (Al Qur'an 8:57)
And the same comment as the previous one applies here. And now look at the following statement of God in the Bible: "This very day I will begin to put the terror and fear of you on all the nations under heaven. They will hear reports of you and will tremble and be in anguish because of you.” Deuteronomy 2:25 Deuteronomy 2 NIV - Wanderings in the Wilderness - Then we - Bible Gateway
Now that does seem to be offensive and not defensive, doesn't it (on all the nations under heaven and not just someone who is fighting you)?
This is God reminding about how His punishment came to towns in the past - nothing to do with Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). It might ring a bell when you read the following statements of God in the Bible :
"2 So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Get rid of the foreign gods you have with you, and purify yourselves and change your clothes.
...
5 Then they set out, and the terror of God fell on the towns all around them so that no one pursued them.
" genesis 35
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+35&version=NIV
and yet again ....
“27 I will send my terror ahead of you and throw into confusion every nation you encounter. I will make all your enemies turn their backs and run. 28 I will send the hornet ahead of you to drive the Hivites, Canaanites and Hittites out of your way." exodus 23
Exodus 23 NIV - Laws of Justice and Mercy -
As I have shown you above, you have failed to bring in a single quote from the Qur'an or Sahih Hadith which shows that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was violent in an OFFENSIVE manner(which was your main argument). All your research items are either mistranslated as I have shown you or even if I accept your translation doesn't show that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was fighting an offensive war. All you could come up with is that some of the verses in the Qur'an or statements of Prophet (pbuh) related to war/punishment is quite harsh. In light of the above, please do not bother bringing in anymore of your so called research BS ... because I will not be wasting my time responding to those (since you couldn't even bring a single relevant one).
Now, you are truly an epitome of Hypocrisy. Let me explain why. In two instances(in a different thread),
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2872494-post259.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2873840-post276.html
you have justified God commanding killing of innocent children and you are blaming Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and the God of the Qur'an for 'casting terror into the hearts of the unbelievers' and NOT children?
If you cannot find a verse in the Qur'an similar to the following Biblical verses commanding killing of innocent children, please do not come back with your false allegations and baseless claims :
"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (Revelation 2:22-23)" ... punishing even the children of the adulterer with death ...
"31 And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us" (Deuteronomy 2 : 31-37) ... killing even the little ones ...
"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”(Hosea 13:16) ... Need I say more ?
As a muslim, I do not believe that either Jesus(pbuh) or God commanded any of those above evils attributed to them in the Bible. However, since you believe in the God and Jesus 'of the Bible', you must defend before you make baseless hypocritical claims against others.
I'll end with this : "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-" (Al-Qur'an 22:39) - this is pretty much the precondition of war in Islam.
a)the Qur'an - word of God or
b) Sahih(authentic) Hadith (i.e. Bukhari, Muslim) - sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
So let's start with that ....
Now read the actual Hadith :
Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
So you can see your research assistant conveniently forgot to quote the part in the parenthesis (which means Terror here is the fear that Allah has put into the hearts of the disbelievers). And even if it means otherwise, in the context of War, I wouldn't have any problem with it because this Hadith is noted in the section of Warfare. What do you expect ? When the oppressors attack the Prophet(pbuh) and the muslims, he would sit back, relax and just chill ? No, we are supposed to root out oppression with strength.
Again, I could not find a single translation that says "I shall terrorize the infidels". See it for yourself : Surat Al-'Anfal [8:12] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
This is what it actually says : "[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): 'I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them'." (Al-Qur'an 8:12)
This is God speaking to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), assuring him that God is with the believers and He will put fear in the disbeliever's hearts during the war, so fight with strength. I wouldn't have any problem with it because even when you are in a war, you rely upon God. Again, what do you expect ? When the oppressors attack the Prophet(pbuh) and the muslims, he would sit back, relax and just chill ? No, we are supposed to root out oppression with strength.
Again, I could not find a single translation that uses the word 'terrorize'. See it for yourself : Surat Al-'Anfal [8:57] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????
This is what it actually says : "If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember." (Al Qur'an 8:57)
And the same comment as the previous one applies here. And now look at the following statement of God in the Bible: "This very day I will begin to put the terror and fear of you on all the nations under heaven. They will hear reports of you and will tremble and be in anguish because of you.” Deuteronomy 2:25 Deuteronomy 2 NIV - Wanderings in the Wilderness - Then we - Bible Gateway
Now that does seem to be offensive and not defensive, doesn't it (on all the nations under heaven and not just someone who is fighting you)?
This is God reminding about how His punishment came to towns in the past - nothing to do with Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). It might ring a bell when you read the following statements of God in the Bible :
"2 So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Get rid of the foreign gods you have with you, and purify yourselves and change your clothes.
...
5 Then they set out, and the terror of God fell on the towns all around them so that no one pursued them.
" genesis 35
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+35&version=NIV
and yet again ....
“27 I will send my terror ahead of you and throw into confusion every nation you encounter. I will make all your enemies turn their backs and run. 28 I will send the hornet ahead of you to drive the Hivites, Canaanites and Hittites out of your way." exodus 23
Exodus 23 NIV - Laws of Justice and Mercy -
As I have shown you above, you have failed to bring in a single quote from the Qur'an or Sahih Hadith which shows that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was violent in an OFFENSIVE manner(which was your main argument). All your research items are either mistranslated as I have shown you or even if I accept your translation doesn't show that Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) was fighting an offensive war. All you could come up with is that some of the verses in the Qur'an or statements of Prophet (pbuh) related to war/punishment is quite harsh. In light of the above, please do not bother bringing in anymore of your so called research BS ... because I will not be wasting my time responding to those (since you couldn't even bring a single relevant one).
Now, you are truly an epitome of Hypocrisy. Let me explain why. In two instances(in a different thread),
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2872494-post259.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2873840-post276.html
you have justified God commanding killing of innocent children and you are blaming Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and the God of the Qur'an for 'casting terror into the hearts of the unbelievers' and NOT children?
If you cannot find a verse in the Qur'an similar to the following Biblical verses commanding killing of innocent children, please do not come back with your false allegations and baseless claims :
"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (Revelation 2:22-23)" ... punishing even the children of the adulterer with death ...
"31 And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32 Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. 33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us" (Deuteronomy 2 : 31-37) ... killing even the little ones ...
"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”(Hosea 13:16) ... Need I say more ?
As a muslim, I do not believe that either Jesus(pbuh) or God commanded any of those above evils attributed to them in the Bible. However, since you believe in the God and Jesus 'of the Bible', you must defend before you make baseless hypocritical claims against others.
I'll end with this : "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-" (Al-Qur'an 22:39) - this is pretty much the precondition of war in Islam.
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maybe from anti-islam Quran ....i mean site
Hmmm, it might be the Google translate edition...
Marble
Rolling Marble
I did a Google search of "Ishaq:315" and found this site: Prophet of Doom - Islamic Quotes - Terrorism
Perhaps the quote is from there.
Perhaps the quote is from there.
thanks for google it .
anyway , it's fake claim about Islam , it's not exist in Quran or Hadith.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Thank you marble.
There are many sites that distort the facts about Islam,watch that honest jewish woman
what she said about the quran
[youtube]Ab6fdoCkZTA[/youtube]
Jewish woman defends Quran must see - YouTube
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Why do Muslims use passages out of a book (bible) they insist are incorrect to make points? I never understood this.
Every passage is recorded in one of Islams prime sources:
the Sira (biography), Tarikh (history), Hadith (report), or Quran (recital).
They are all documented. Is there something wrong with these sources?the Sira (biography), Tarikh (history), Hadith (report), or Quran (recital).
This is not a thread is not about whether Islam is true or not. It is simply was Muhammad peacful or violent. I do not deny the bible has violence in it. I believe it even though it does. Why are you defending the indefensable? I do not expect you to defend or explain every quote made by Muhammad or about him, it can't be done. The point was that the inexhaustable cummulative case is overwhelming. Most of your expansion of the verse or saying did not change the violent nature of the quote. You may not have a problem with the reason for the violence but the violence without doubt existed. If you will admit that there was quite a lot of violence justly/or unjustly commited by Muhammad then we could consentrate on the nature of the violence only which is the more important point anyway?
What about
Ishaqs [FONT=CalistoMT,Italic]Sirat Rasul Allah, Hadith? or
The Tarikh is the oldest, most trusted, and comprehensive history of
Islams formation and Muhammads example, called Sunnah?[FONT=CalistoMT,Italic][FONT=CalistoMT,Italic]Quran 8:39
Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah. Ishaq:324 Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must not have rivals.
As you can see there is no reason that Ishaq should not be valid. It says the same thing as the Quran.
I will try to reduce the number of quotes or sayings in my future posts, I was trying to make it clear that there is such an infinate amount of them that to say that Muhammad was not violent is obsurd. There is no way they are all wrong.
For what it is worth ONCE AGAIN THIS TOPIC IS MUHAMMAD NOT A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE VIOLENCE OF THE BIBLE VS THE QURAN. I will be happy to cover the violence in the bible at another time or another thread but not this one.
I will strictly stick to what I have said above in future posts, however I have a couple questions I always wanted to get a Muslims views on. They have no bearing on this topic and I will not use your answers to influence any discussion on this topic. It's just my curiosity only.
1. If you believe that Allah helps Muslim's in battle then why in every war since 1948 against Israel when the Muslims outnumbered the jews by atleast 50-1 why did the jews win everytime in the most lopsided victories in history?
2. Why do you think Islam to be the correct path when everywhere it is practiced it has resulted in some of the most disfunctional, unstable, destitute (even with the oil), oppresive, unprogressive countries (except maybe indonesian) on earth, which trail Israel in almost every meaningful statistic?
I am not trying to lead or trick you I have always wanted an answer to these questions, and I am not trying to be insulting. I am aware Islam has in the past had some advanced cultures but I am speaking about modern times that I am familiar with. Again no insult intended. I had to delete anything you said with a link in it. Sorry but this site will not let me post links because I am new here.
SELAH
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
While that IS true, there are also many Muslim sites that distort Islam as well, so it is not an exclusive phenomena.
For the record, that video almost made me lose my lunch the first time I watched it. It is truly pathetic.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Loveroftruth,
Here are a few from YOUR approved text.
(i.e. Bukhari, Muslim)
"Allah's Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.’" (vol. 4, p. 55)
"Allah's Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me…" (vol. 4, p. 124)
"It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he has made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land…" (vol. 4, p. 161)
"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." (vol. 9, p. 45)
"An infidel spy came to the Prophet while he was on a journey. The spy sat with the companions of the Prophet and started talking and then went away. The Prophet said (to his companions), ‘Chase and kill him.’ So, I killed him. The Prophet then gave him the belongings of the killed spy." (vol. 4, pp. 181-182)
"Some people from the tribe of Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milk) camels of charity and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophet ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die." (vol. 8, pp. 519-520)
Here are a few from YOUR approved text.
(i.e. Bukhari, Muslim)
"Allah's Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.’" (vol. 4, p. 55)
"Allah's Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me…" (vol. 4, p. 124)
"It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he has made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land…" (vol. 4, p. 161)
"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." (vol. 9, p. 45)
"An infidel spy came to the Prophet while he was on a journey. The spy sat with the companions of the Prophet and started talking and then went away. The Prophet said (to his companions), ‘Chase and kill him.’ So, I killed him. The Prophet then gave him the belongings of the killed spy." (vol. 4, pp. 181-182)
"Some people from the tribe of Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milk) camels of charity and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophet ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die." (vol. 8, pp. 519-520)
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
I think you missed the following parts from my previous post :
Obviously the reason is I had to spend time to find out that either they were all falsified to look like 'terrorizing' whereas those words didn't even exist in any translations or they were just partially quoted to give a false meaning.
And you missed the following as well....
Because nothing can be more aggressive and offensive than killing innocent women and children even during war.
I hate it when people do that.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
And you are saying this after quoting verses from the Qur'an and Hadith while believing neither of them to be true ? Did someone say 'Hypocrisy' ?
Wrong. Muslims are not obligated to read (let alone follow) anything other than the Qur'an and Hadith.
I do not deny that the Qur'an dictates harsh punishment also. And whatever punishment God decreed he commanded. Yet, you would never find the most offensive of things such as killing innocent children anywhere in the Qur'an or Hadith. And what you are trying to prove is absolutely false. Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) never committed violence unjustly out of his own desire or whatever. Did he deal with his enemies with strength and boldness ? Absolutely. But he only fought in defense of his people and religion and still forgave many who committed cruelty against his own self. I can give you examples of such in the tons. And before you come up with such lies go read at least from unbiased non-muslim sources what they say about Prophet Muhammad. For example, here :
The Simple Message of GOD: About Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) - By a non-muslim
As I have said Muslims are not obligated to read (let alone follow) anything other than the Qur'an and Hadith.
I have eliminated 100% of your first round postings. So there's no reason to believe that I cannot for the next rounds and hence I have no intention of wasting my time on your fake research only to find out that they are all someway or another irrelevant or false.
Quit complaining like a child. When you hypocritically and falsely accuse Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and Islam, the stuff in your Bible is bound to be exposed. So deal with it rather than complaining about it. And please note that I didn't start the threads attacking christianity or the Bible. On the contrary, christians on the forum, started threads attacking Islam and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). When you guys stop with your baseless and false accusations of Islam and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh), the exposing of the falsehood in the Bible will stop - as simple as that.
Since it is off topic and just for your curiosity, I'll respond to it at a later time...
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1robin
Christian/Baptist
I appreciate your point but it is not that simple. I do believe most information in the Quran and Hadith that is historical in nature (not anything that strictly is theological as most of that was plagurised from other sources) that agrees with what scholars know about history. Once again you avoid answering a question by attacking Christianity (this appears to be a compusion).
These are texts approved by Muslim scholars. I am not suggesting that they are used for theological matters simply an accurate account of history. If you dissagree then you dissagree with Islamic scholars. Of course Muhammads biography is not used for theological instruction but is accepted as historically reliable.
[FONT=CalistoMT,Italic][FONT=CalistoMT,Italic]Bukhari:V4B52N256 [/FONT]
[/FONT]“The Prophet passed by and was asked whether it was permissible to attack infidels at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, ‘Their women and children are from them.’”
Ishaq: 676
“‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”
Since you reject any source that you find inconvenient I won't list the dozens more I found. I am reading Muhammads first official biography written by a Muslim and it even shocks me how violent, cruel and unjust Muhammad was. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's lie. Muslims more than any other group I have found have the greatest capacity to trivialise the momentous and complecate the obvious.
That has nothing to do with whether they are all true or contain some truth.
You have a rediculously high regard for what you think you have done. This sounds typical.
I have said at least four times by now that I have no problem discussing violence in the bible but that is not what we are supposed to be discussing here. This is simply a classic Islamic tactic of misdirection. It is easy to see when people do this and is an indication of a weak argument. One of the worlds most Internationaly respected scholars such as Dr James White (professional textual critic) as well as many countless others confirm the bible is over 95% accurate. Not to mention the virtually perfect comparison between todays bibles and the dead sea scrolls. As well as the Qurans stating that the bible is to be used to verify the quran (something it obviously doesn't so the invention of the changed response) and we have those bibles from Muhammad's time and they are virtually identical to modern ones then you are violating the Quran by insisting the bible is corrupt. Accuse the bible of corruption as much as you want it makes Islamic scholars look even worse in the process. Once again attacking Christianity to defend Islam (this appers to be a compulsion).
I agree that my questions were off topic and so have been your many attempts to attack the bible to somehow defend Islam. I alone admitted this upfront or at all. Did someone say ("Did someone say hypocricy")? However I have always wanted to know what a Muslim's take on those questions would be so If you will respond to them I would be thankful.
God Bless,
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Nice try in evading 'hypocrisy' but you were not quoting verses related to historical events that agree with your scripture. On the contrary, you were quoting stuff that has nothing to do with your scriptures and you don't believe in.
Note that the Seerah or biography of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is based on the Hadith and written by people in their own words. So I am not going to be defending the opinion of every single muslim scholar unless it is stated in the authentic Hadith. And if it is from the authentic Hadith, you should be able to find it in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim. So that's what I'll defend because only the Qur'an and authentic Hadith are guaranteed to be in accordance with what our Creator desires/commands.
Now that you can't find something as violent as the statements in the Bible in my Holy Scriptures (Qur'an and Authentic Hadith) ... you are crying foul to allow you to quote from any book any muslim ever wrote. What a shame.
Did you even read that hadith ? Or did you just look for the words 'women and children' and just posted it here ? Read it again - it is talking about "the probability of exposing their women and children to danger" not even attacking let alone killing women and children. And you think that is even close to
"strike her children dead" or "utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain" or "their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open" as in the biblical verses mentioned earlier ?
You are making yourself a laughingstock here.
Moreover, the very fact that the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) raised this question to the Prophet (pbuh) shows the care they took not to hurt women and children as further evidenced by the following Hadith :
* Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258.
Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.
I'll just pretend that I did not read any of your comment regarding the 'accuracy of the Bible' in this thread
so we don't go 'way' off topic. But just one quick note - if it is from God Almighty, it should be 100% accurate. I am not the one coming up with false claims about anything. I am quoting straight out of the Bible (and not even from Christian scholars) to show you what's in there. Whereas, you are the one coming up with dubious claims about Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). I do not see any 'hypocrisy' in there. Since you mentioned it is off topic and just for your curiosity, I said I'll respond later when I have time. If it was off topic and yet for making a point in this discussion, I would have responded right away without any problem.
I think you would better spend the time spreading the love of Jesus(pbuh) than spreading the hate of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) with false accusations.
I'll start and see if you would take the offer :
* The Messenger(pbuh) of Allah(God) said:
He will not enter Paradise whose neighbor is not secure from his wrongful conduct.
* The Messenger(pbuh) of God said:
"God will say on the Day of Resurrection: Where are those who love one another through My glory? Today I shall give them shade in My shade, it being a day when there is no shade but My shade."
Peace to you as well.
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1robin
Christian/Baptist
Nice try in evading 'hypocrisy' but you were not quoting verses related to historical events that agree with your scripture. On the contrary, you were quoting stuff that has nothing to do with your scriptures and you don't believe in.
Note that the Seerah or biography of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is based on the Hadith and written by people in their own words. So I am not going to be defending the opinion of every single muslim scholar unless it is stated in the authentic Hadith. And if it is from the authentic Hadith, you should be able to find it in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim. So that's what I'll defend because only the Qur'an and authentic Hadith are guaranteed to be in accordance with what our Creator desires/commands.
Now that you can't find something as violent as the statements in the Bible in my Holy Scriptures (Qur'an and Authentic Hadith) ... you are crying foul to allow you to quote from any book any muslim ever wrote. What a shame.
Did you even read that hadith ? Or did you just look for the words 'women and children' and just posted it here ? Read it again - it is talking about "the probability of exposing their women and children to danger" not even attacking let alone killing women and children. And you think that is even close to
"strike her children dead" or "utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain" or "their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open" as in the biblical verses mentioned earlier ?
You are making yourself a laughingstock here.
Moreover, the very fact that the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) raised this question to the Prophet (pbuh) shows the care they took not to hurt women and children as further evidenced by the following Hadith :
* Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258.
Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.
I'll just pretend that I did not read any of your comment regarding the 'accuracy of the Bible' in this thread
I do not see any 'hypocrisy' in there. Since you mentioned it is off topic and just for your curiosity, I said I'll respond later when I have time. If it was off topic and yet for making a point in this discussion, I would have responded right away without any problem.
I think you would better spend the time spreading the love of Jesus(pbuh) than spreading the hate of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) with false accusations.
I'll start and see if you would take the offer :
* The Messenger(pbuh) of Allah(God) said:
He will not enter Paradise whose neighbor is not secure from his wrongful conduct.
* The Messenger(pbuh) of God said:
"God will say on the Day of Resurrection: Where are those who love one another through My glory? Today I shall give them shade in My shade, it being a day when there is no shade but My shade."
Peace to you as well.
Even though I found everything I have quoted in approved Islamic sources I will restrict that portion of my discussion because you won't acknowledge (even if it is correct) gets the discussion nowhere. I am out of time for today but I will of course respond to the issues with your latest post soon.
I didn't understand your challenge you issued in the last of your post and If your verses are part of it why do you think they are relevant to me?
God Bless,
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
I didn't issue you a challenge ... but I put forth a proposal. I said I'll post some message(sayings) of Love/goodness by Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and you can post some message of Love/goodness from Jesus(pbuh) rather than spreading hate
.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
I will just give two simple examples of many *mine 02,00 cents* :
Tolerance to the Jews:
-
The Highest Jewish Priest Admit Prophet Muhammad & Tolerance of Islam
Tolerance to the Christians:
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0SsRmC6O5k&feature=relatedHoly Prophet Muhammad 's Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine in Mt. Sinai
Both groups have historical evidence (scripture) to support Mohammed(saws) was not violent.
:Tolerance to the Jews:
-
The Highest Jewish Priest Admit Prophet Muhammad & Tolerance of Islam
Tolerance to the Christians:
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0SsRmC6O5k&feature=relatedHoly Prophet Muhammad 's Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine in Mt. Sinai
Both groups have historical evidence (scripture) to support Mohammed(saws) was not violent.
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arthra
Baha'i
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) is quoted as saying,
Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter? (They are) To forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you.
Imams were lineal descendents of Prophet Muhammad:
Imam Zayn el-Abidin [9] (pbuh) is quoted as saying:
On the day of Judgement Allah the Almighty assembles all the people in one location and then it is announced, Where are the noble people? A group of people rise, who are then asked, What distinguishes you from the rest? In reply they say: We used to make bonds with he who broke off with us, We used to give to he who deprived us, We used to forgive he who used to oppress us. They are then told; You have said the truth, so enter the heaven.
In another tradition, Imam Saadiq [10] (pbuh) is reported as saying:
Three noble qualities belong to this world and the hereafter: To forgive he who oppresses you, To make bonds with he who breaks off with you, To forbear when insulted.
Non-Violence in Islamic Teachings
Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter? (They are) To forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you.
Imams were lineal descendents of Prophet Muhammad:
Imam Zayn el-Abidin [9] (pbuh) is quoted as saying:
On the day of Judgement Allah the Almighty assembles all the people in one location and then it is announced, Where are the noble people? A group of people rise, who are then asked, What distinguishes you from the rest? In reply they say: We used to make bonds with he who broke off with us, We used to give to he who deprived us, We used to forgive he who used to oppress us. They are then told; You have said the truth, so enter the heaven.
In another tradition, Imam Saadiq [10] (pbuh) is reported as saying:
Three noble qualities belong to this world and the hereafter: To forgive he who oppresses you, To make bonds with he who breaks off with you, To forbear when insulted.
Non-Violence in Islamic Teachings