miss interpret
Member
There is an awful lot of history that says otherwise and of an awful lot of quranic quotes to.
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Was Mohammed a man of peace ? - as his last words were to curse the Christians and the Jews
- Thread starter markymark
- Start date
There is an awful lot of history that says otherwise and of an awful lot of quranic quotes to.
arthra
Baha'i
Swear not by God, when ye make oath, that ye will be virtuous and fear
God, and promote peace among men; for God is He who Heareth, Knoweth.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)
But, if they depart from
you, and make not war against you and offer you peace, then God alloweth you no
occasion against them.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 4 - Women)
Now hath a light and a clear Book come to you from God, by which God
will guide him who shall follow after his good pleasure, to paths of peace, and
will bring them out of the darkness to the light, by his will: and to the
straight path will he guide them.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 5 - The Table)
And if they lean to peace, lean thou also to it; and put thy trust in
God: for He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 8 - The Spoils)
"Peace!" shall be the word on the part of a merciful Lord.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 36 - Ya. Sin)
No vain discourse shall they hear therein, nor charge of sin,
But only the cry, "Peace! Peace!"
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 56 - The Inevitable)
If thou desirest peace from the foe, whenever he
Finds fault behind thy back praise him to his face.
A vicious fellow's mouth must utter words.
If thou desirest not bitter words, sweeten his mouth.
(Islamic Miscellaneous, Gulistan of Sa'di (Edwin Arnold tr))
Speak not harshly to a man of gentle speech.
Seek not to fight with him who knocks at the door of peace.
(Islamic Miscellaneous, Gulistan of Sa'di (Edwin Arnold tr))
As long as He bore no responsibility for presiding over the fortunes of men, Muhammad, in the face of constant abuse, vilification, physical assault and injury, did not raise a finger to defend Himself. But as soon as the destinies and the security of His followers and indeed of a whole town came to rest in His hands, He acted as a ruler should, with tact and forbearance, with wisdom and justice. It was His duty to halt the aggressor, to counter the moves of the adversary, to neutralize the efforts of the enemy, and if need be to order his elimination. He had no other choice in a largely lawless land. At al-Hudaybiyyah, while engaged in negotiating a truce with the implacable idolaters, Muhammad gave way to Suhayl Ibn 'Amr, the Meccan envoy, and instructed the scribe to delete the expression, 'Muhammad the Apostle of God' from the draft treaty and refer to Him simply as 'Muhammad Ibn 'Abdi'llah'. Even more, He acceded to the demand that a Meccan, who had embraced Islam and gone to Medina, against the wishes of his people, should be returned to Mecca. But in the matter of the worship of idols, of joining partners with the Supreme Creator of the Universe, Muhammad never compromised, never yielded an inch.
It is untrue to say (as it has been said again and again by those who would denigrate Muhammad) that Islam was the religion of the sword. It was months after the fall of Mecca that Safwan Ibn Umayyah, who had been outlawed and subsequently pardoned by Muhammad, declared his allegiance to Islam, entirely of his own choosing. Throughout the long years that 'Abdu'llah Ibn Ubayy and his associates paid only lip-service to Muhammad and tried to thwart His purpose, never was any force used to wrest a declaration of total allegiance from them. 'Adi, the son of the celebrated Hatim, went to Medina in two minds whether to give recognition to the prophethood of Muhammad or not; he was accorded the honours due to a son of such a renowned father, and became a Muslim under no threat or pressure. That great work of Sir Thomas Arnold, The Preaching of Islam, admirably recounts the story of the spread of the Faith of Muhammad.
(H.M. Balyuzi, Muhammad and the Course of Islam, p. 160)
God, and promote peace among men; for God is He who Heareth, Knoweth.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)
But, if they depart from
you, and make not war against you and offer you peace, then God alloweth you no
occasion against them.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 4 - Women)
Now hath a light and a clear Book come to you from God, by which God
will guide him who shall follow after his good pleasure, to paths of peace, and
will bring them out of the darkness to the light, by his will: and to the
straight path will he guide them.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 5 - The Table)
And if they lean to peace, lean thou also to it; and put thy trust in
God: for He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 8 - The Spoils)
"Peace!" shall be the word on the part of a merciful Lord.
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 36 - Ya. Sin)
No vain discourse shall they hear therein, nor charge of sin,
But only the cry, "Peace! Peace!"
(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 56 - The Inevitable)
If thou desirest peace from the foe, whenever he
Finds fault behind thy back praise him to his face.
A vicious fellow's mouth must utter words.
If thou desirest not bitter words, sweeten his mouth.
(Islamic Miscellaneous, Gulistan of Sa'di (Edwin Arnold tr))
Speak not harshly to a man of gentle speech.
Seek not to fight with him who knocks at the door of peace.
(Islamic Miscellaneous, Gulistan of Sa'di (Edwin Arnold tr))
As long as He bore no responsibility for presiding over the fortunes of men, Muhammad, in the face of constant abuse, vilification, physical assault and injury, did not raise a finger to defend Himself. But as soon as the destinies and the security of His followers and indeed of a whole town came to rest in His hands, He acted as a ruler should, with tact and forbearance, with wisdom and justice. It was His duty to halt the aggressor, to counter the moves of the adversary, to neutralize the efforts of the enemy, and if need be to order his elimination. He had no other choice in a largely lawless land. At al-Hudaybiyyah, while engaged in negotiating a truce with the implacable idolaters, Muhammad gave way to Suhayl Ibn 'Amr, the Meccan envoy, and instructed the scribe to delete the expression, 'Muhammad the Apostle of God' from the draft treaty and refer to Him simply as 'Muhammad Ibn 'Abdi'llah'. Even more, He acceded to the demand that a Meccan, who had embraced Islam and gone to Medina, against the wishes of his people, should be returned to Mecca. But in the matter of the worship of idols, of joining partners with the Supreme Creator of the Universe, Muhammad never compromised, never yielded an inch.
It is untrue to say (as it has been said again and again by those who would denigrate Muhammad) that Islam was the religion of the sword. It was months after the fall of Mecca that Safwan Ibn Umayyah, who had been outlawed and subsequently pardoned by Muhammad, declared his allegiance to Islam, entirely of his own choosing. Throughout the long years that 'Abdu'llah Ibn Ubayy and his associates paid only lip-service to Muhammad and tried to thwart His purpose, never was any force used to wrest a declaration of total allegiance from them. 'Adi, the son of the celebrated Hatim, went to Medina in two minds whether to give recognition to the prophethood of Muhammad or not; he was accorded the honours due to a son of such a renowned father, and became a Muslim under no threat or pressure. That great work of Sir Thomas Arnold, The Preaching of Islam, admirably recounts the story of the spread of the Faith of Muhammad.
(H.M. Balyuzi, Muhammad and the Course of Islam, p. 160)
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Pink Top Hat
Active Member
I'd love to see them
please post them so we can examine them in context of course not just a single verse here and there
tariqkhwaja
Jihad Against Terrorism
Which history says Islam was spread by the sword? Can you name me which sword spread Islam in Indonesia?
One should ask Allah to protect but one must also use what God has given them to protect. It is ungrateful to just pray to God without doing actions. In the case of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) he bore with patience 13 long years of persecution in which his people were killed and tortured until he and his people were driven out of their lands. Then they were no left in peace in foreign land and it is then when he took up his sword to defend. What are you talking about?
Crusades don't justify anything. And where was his last word to curse the Jews and Christians? His last word was "You (God) have been my best friend".
As explained this is false. He gave more rights to his enemies than any other man in history.
He gave himself up? Him and what army?
He tried to hide and spent the night praying for not being caught and look what happened? God saved him at the cross and Jesus did not die and was saved and left Jerusalem in search of the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He only went into a coma.
But where do you infer he "gave up"? Which army did Jesus possess that he surrendered?
Not that I agree with the OPs argument, but saying that Islam was spread by the sword doesnt refer to literal swords but rather use of violence and force to spread religion... at least that is how I understand it, I could be wrong.
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FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
A strong evidence that Islam is spreading by the sword and a religion of violence
watch on youtube
[youtube]5_n_4A754qQ[/youtube]
Very Emotional Filipino Crying For Non Muslim Mother - YouTube
watch on youtube
[youtube]5_n_4A754qQ[/youtube]
Very Emotional Filipino Crying For Non Muslim Mother - YouTube
Pink Top Hat
Active Member
What you are seeing today is the result of treason and treachery.
Just go back to the way the Arabs were treated after the world wars and you will get the picture. They were lied to and cheated. Their land stolen and broken up into pieces and given to dictators who these days are falling.
Of decades of Western invasion and millions killed for what? WMD's lies. Now they have their cross hairs fixed on Iran next with not a shred of evidence of a single nuclear weapon just like Iraq and no WMD's.
What you are seeing now is a fight back a resistance for all of that.
If it not for the Sykes Picot and Balfour and oil there would be no problem with radical fundamentalism. It's a result not a cause.
Religious leaders fought wars when needed and used pacifism when needed; Muhammad was a very successful leader, which was needed at the time for the spread of Islam.
If you're going to debate about this issue, could you please show some respect? "old mo" is insulting, whether you subscribe to his teachings or not.
If you're going to debate about this issue, could you please show some respect? "old mo" is insulting, whether you subscribe to his teachings or not.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Wisdom says that one should judge a tree by its fruit. That's far different from playing the role of God by judging someone's sins. People have been twisting Jesus' words about bringing the "sword" instead of peace enough in this thread. You know when Christians are literally executed in certain counties because of their faith? That's the type of stuff he's talking about when he mentions bringing the "sword". He's saying that the message he preaches divides some people so much that they kill each other over it. And generally speaking, it's non Christians who kill the Christians for not believing the way they believe, not the other way around. Jesus also spoke by his actions, this story in Matt 26 is the closest he ever got to combat.
Matthew 26: 47While He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came up accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48Now he who was betraying Him gave them a sign, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the one; seize Him.” 49Immediately Judas went to Jesus and said, “Hail, Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 50And Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you have come for.” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.
51And behold, one of those who were with Jesus reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53“Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54“How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?”
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It is unfortunate that people try to justify their positions by judging and attacking others. Two wrongs will never make a right.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
nameless
The Creator
do you think prophet muhammad would agree to this?
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
From the Holy Quran:
O ye who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (Al-Quran 005:008)
And come not nigh to the orphan's property, except to improve it, until he attain the age of full strength; give measure and weight with (full) justice;- no burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear;- whenever ye speak, speak justly, even if a near relative is concerned; and fulfill the covenant of God: thus doth He command you, that ye may remember.(Al-Quran 006:152)
F0uad
Well-Known Member
First of all the topic-starter quoted something from Wikipedia out of its context, secondly that is what only one historian gathered hes information without doing research on hes own work that historian is named Tabari and thirdly its a weak source the chain-of-narration is very weak therefore not making it authentic.
There are over 1000's of hadiths that speak about the war-times and all have been proven to be a defensive war or a moral good one. Now if we read the bible we can see god commanding Mozes(pbuh) to kill 3000 people in one day so they can take over the land....
Don't forget Jesus(pbuh) is god so therefore Jesus(pbuh) ordered Moses(pbuh) to kill all those innocent people?
There are over 1000's of hadiths that speak about the war-times and all have been proven to be a defensive war or a moral good one. Now if we read the bible we can see god commanding Mozes(pbuh) to kill 3000 people in one day so they can take over the land....
Don't forget Jesus(pbuh) is god so therefore Jesus(pbuh) ordered Moses(pbuh) to kill all those innocent people?
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
But if you accept the premise that Jesus is God, that God is also the God of Muslims. If you use that point, you admit that your God also committed those atrocities because it's the same one.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Well by Luke 19:27 "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me." he isn't exactly adverse to suggesting that people who defy him (or even merely do not want to be his slaves) should be killed... so ordering Moses to kill innocents does not seem such a stretch.
We see time and time again that the Abrahamic God as revealed through the central religious texts of the three major Abramahic religions is more than willing to engage in a little execution to advance the state of the world in the direction it intends the world to progress in according to his will. Is it so problematic therefore that his prophets also work to such ends on occasion?
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arthra
Baha'i
Informed ignorance wrote:
Well by Luke 19:27 "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me." he isn't exactly adverse to suggesting that people who defy him (or even merely do not want to be his slaves) should be killed...
My comment:
Maybe we should look again at Luke 19:27 and see it in context!
11While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12So He said, “A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return. 13“And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, ‘Do business with this until I come back.’ 14“But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’ 15“When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. 16“The first appeared, saying, ‘Master, your mina has made ten minas more.’ 17“And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.’ 18“The second came, saying, ‘Your mina, master, has made five minas.’ 19“And he said to him also, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ 20“Another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief; 21for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man; you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.’ 22“He said to him, ‘By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? 23‘Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?’ 24“Then he said to the bystanders, ‘Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ 25“And they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas already.’ 26“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 27“But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”
Verse 27 concludes a parable..It is not an instruction by Jesus.
Well by Luke 19:27 "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me." he isn't exactly adverse to suggesting that people who defy him (or even merely do not want to be his slaves) should be killed...
My comment:
Maybe we should look again at Luke 19:27 and see it in context!
11While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12So He said, “A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return. 13“And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, ‘Do business with this until I come back.’ 14“But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’ 15“When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done. 16“The first appeared, saying, ‘Master, your mina has made ten minas more.’ 17“And he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.’ 18“The second came, saying, ‘Your mina, master, has made five minas.’ 19“And he said to him also, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ 20“Another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief; 21for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man; you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.’ 22“He said to him, ‘By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow? 23‘Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?’ 24“Then he said to the bystanders, ‘Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ 25“And they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas already.’ 26“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 27“But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”
Verse 27 concludes a parable..It is not an instruction by Jesus.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Even if metaphorical, it still shows a willingness to be obscenely harsh; suggesting that god is well within his rights to slaughter those who suggest he has not the authority to rule them (or rather to have his faithful do it for them - after all in the parable it IS a command). Given I am among those who do doubt such authority, I find it a little bloodthirsty.
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