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Was Mohammed a man of peace ? - as his last words were to curse the Christians and the Jews
- Thread starter markymark
- Start date
arthra
Baha'i
Mary mark wrote:
History tells us Mohammed was involved in war almost all of his adult life ,i know alot of Muslims say he was attacked but IMO the man who was to be an example to all Muslims should have asked allah to protect him instead of using his followers to conquer the whole of arbia ,history also says islam was spread by the sword.
My comment:
Prophet Muhammad was about forty years old when He received His revelation on Mount Hira... He was born around 570 AD in Mecca
It was after the Hijra around 622 AD that He received revelation that fighting in defence of religion was permitted. Thus He was about fifty two years old at that time..clearly "almost all of HIs life" was not involved in war as you suggest.
Islam was spread by preaching...
Amazon.com: The Preaching of Islam (9788171512591): Sir Thomas W. Arnold: Books
Mary mark wrote:
Alot of muslim will point to he crusades and say christianty was also spread by the sword - yes it happaned those men abused there believe and used it for there gain the difference is the founder of islam was the one who spread islam by the sword and apart from that his last word were to curse the christians and the jews ...so tell me what makes Muhammad a man of peace ?
My comment:
Mary read in Quran Surih 22 verses 39-40:
Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.
[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.
So the revelation supported defending religion and provided for the safety of "monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques".
Mary mark wrote:
yes he united the tribes - but that does not mean anyhing as if a criminal unites criminal tribes does that make him a man of peace ?
My comment:
Yes the tribes of Arabia were united as never before in the dispensation of Prophet Muhammad.. and you are the one to decide they are "criminal"?!
Mary mark wrote:
point to ponder:when Jesus was attacked and taken to the cross to be tortured - he gave him self up - his last words were to forgive those who tortured him
My comment:
Yes Jesus was martyred as Prophet Muhammed could have been when the pagans wanted to assassinate Him in His bed.. Ali slept in His place.
In the Sirat Rasul Allah of Ibn Ishaq found on p. 682 of Guillaume's translation read:
a statement attributed to Aisha:
"I found Him heavy in my bosom and as I looked into His face, lo His eyes were fixed and He was saying, "Nay the most Exalted Companion is of paradise". I said: "You were given the choice and You have chosen by Him Who sent you with the Truth!" And so the Apostle was taken.
So these were the last words according to Ibn Ishaq's biography of the Prophet. The passing was about the year 632 of the common era.
It is reported He passed with the name of Allah on His lips.
History tells us Mohammed was involved in war almost all of his adult life ,i know alot of Muslims say he was attacked but IMO the man who was to be an example to all Muslims should have asked allah to protect him instead of using his followers to conquer the whole of arbia ,history also says islam was spread by the sword.
My comment:
Prophet Muhammad was about forty years old when He received His revelation on Mount Hira... He was born around 570 AD in Mecca
It was after the Hijra around 622 AD that He received revelation that fighting in defence of religion was permitted. Thus He was about fifty two years old at that time..clearly "almost all of HIs life" was not involved in war as you suggest.
Islam was spread by preaching...
Amazon.com: The Preaching of Islam (9788171512591): Sir Thomas W. Arnold: Books
Mary mark wrote:
Alot of muslim will point to he crusades and say christianty was also spread by the sword - yes it happaned those men abused there believe and used it for there gain the difference is the founder of islam was the one who spread islam by the sword and apart from that his last word were to curse the christians and the jews ...so tell me what makes Muhammad a man of peace ?
My comment:
Mary read in Quran Surih 22 verses 39-40:
Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.
[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah ." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.
So the revelation supported defending religion and provided for the safety of "monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques".
Mary mark wrote:
yes he united the tribes - but that does not mean anyhing as if a criminal unites criminal tribes does that make him a man of peace ?
My comment:
Yes the tribes of Arabia were united as never before in the dispensation of Prophet Muhammad.. and you are the one to decide they are "criminal"?!
Mary mark wrote:
point to ponder:when Jesus was attacked and taken to the cross to be tortured - he gave him self up - his last words were to forgive those who tortured him
My comment:
Yes Jesus was martyred as Prophet Muhammed could have been when the pagans wanted to assassinate Him in His bed.. Ali slept in His place.
In the Sirat Rasul Allah of Ibn Ishaq found on p. 682 of Guillaume's translation read:
a statement attributed to Aisha:
"I found Him heavy in my bosom and as I looked into His face, lo His eyes were fixed and He was saying, "Nay the most Exalted Companion is of paradise". I said: "You were given the choice and You have chosen by Him Who sent you with the Truth!" And so the Apostle was taken.
So these were the last words according to Ibn Ishaq's biography of the Prophet. The passing was about the year 632 of the common era.
It is reported He passed with the name of Allah on His lips.
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I was bored, so I took you up on the idea. It really is a classic RF train-wreck of a thread, ain't it?Maybe you should read that thread too.
Frankly, I found many of the comments almost as ignorant as those of Markymark. To say that several people gave ludicrously nuanced views of the self-created plight of Mohammad was fascinating, to say the least.
Marble
Rolling Marble
That is my opinion too.
A true prophet had handed over himself to his God and had surrendered the matter of his life or death to his will.
Marble
Rolling Marble
I the OP writes about the behaviour of Jesus & Mohammed, not so much about that of their followers.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Maybe you should read that thread too.
What do you mean by true prophet will not do that,was prophet moses a false one
Did you know that in Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Torah, Moses shares this message from God as the Israelites prepare to enter the Promised Land: "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy."
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girga****es, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the Lord your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. Make no covenant with them and show no favor to them" (Deuteronomy 7:1-2).
"When you approach a city to fight it, offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, all the people found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, kill all the men in it. Take as booty only the women, children, animals, and all that is in the city, all its spoils. Use the spoils of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you... Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).
So what do you think,was prophet moses a false one also,if so,then all the abrahamic
religions will be so,and there will be no judaism,christianity and islam.
This issue should be ended at this point,it is not logic by all means and looks silly and
it is against the belief of all the Abrahamic religions which we should respect similar to all other religions on this world,respect is needed,that is peace.
i dont know how you want prophet moses to defend himself from his enemies,by
hiding in his bedroom or you want god to come down to earth with his sword to protect him,many had already posted similar to what i mentioned here,so let us
stop it at this point,no need to insult others religion,let us show love and respect.
i will never say that prophet moses was a false prophet because he fought his enemies,
if some body is comming towards you holding a knife to kill you,what you will do,
you will say i love you,kill me,but be gentle with me.
Pink Top Hat
Active Member
Who is history? anti islamic websites?
This old story is nonsense and if you just spend a few minutes thinking about it it is very clear.
Mohammed spent most of his time in peace actually.
He was employed by a very successful woman trader Khadijah who later became his wife. That alone destroys the notion that women were nobodies and sat at home all day cooking. She was famous throughout the region as a trader with all the travelling caravans and Mohammed ended up working for her as he was known as the most honest man in the vicinity and could be trusted with her huge wealth.
He fought mainly his own tribe. Thats the fact.
They disowned him and he lived amongst the Jewish and Christian tribes and was appointed by them actually as a mediator again for his honesty and fairness. It was the Jewish tribes who elected him as their judge in conflicts.
The Jewish tribes were the actual traitors because it was usual for Arab tribes to raid and loot each other. It's a cultural thing and between Arabs. The Jewish tribes were the weapons makers who profited from selling each side weapons in the conflicts. This is historical fact and even today their job has not changed. They are still in the middle of conflicts selling weapons. That was how they amassed their fortunes in foreign currencies and they also worked as money changers and lenders with interest with all the travelling caravans through Arabia from India through Yemen and to Mecca which was at the time idol worshipers of may beliefs, right up to Kuwait and onto Damascus. They the Jewish tribes collected the money and sold the weapons to the Arabs tribes etc.
When Mohammed started to spread the word of Islam he was of a tiny group who was constantly being attacked by his own tribe . Islam spread through less than 200 men.
Islam could not have ever logically been spead by sword by 200 men half of whom were women and children. His muslims numbered less than 200 total. It was spread because of its message of peace. Peace was not a word known in Arabia at the time. Tribes always fought. That was the way of life. He brought an end to the tribal fighting and united them. The King of Ethiopia a Christians, story should be of interest to you. See what he said of the Muslims of Arabia and their prophet.
It's time for the nonsense to stop and for people to actually read and study the truth and not anti Islamic rubbish.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
By the way, just for a quick reality check...
Search for the word 'sword' in the Qur'an @ IslamiCity: Quran Search
Result : Displaying Verse 0 through 0 of 0 Verse(s) found. ( 0 Verse(s) displayed)
Now search the Bible for the word 'sword' @ BibleGateway - Quick search: sword
Result : Keyword search results
406 Results
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Not really. type the word Hell. it appears over a HUNDRED (!) times in the Qur'an. ZERO times in the Hebrew Bible, and fifteen times in the New Testament.that's big huge number , and embrassing situation to the christians and jews
wow. this game is easy.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Yes, and your point is ? If there is a Hell, it's better to be warned about it and reminded again and again so we can stay away from things that will take us there. It is easy.
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Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
And considering that the Bible talks about many many wars of the ancient near east. in light of your use of the word 'Sword'. your point here is moot.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Not at all ... since I was countering the OP's argument that Islam was spread by the sword. If God wanted Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) to spread the religion by the 'sword', He would have used that word at least once. That was my point.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
You could have easily evoided the comparison with the Bible to make that point. just like you view the claim about the prophet and the Qur'an to be out of context, the word 'Sword' and the Bible are taken out of context in your post. also I was obviously responding to Godobeyer's cheecky post.
ah ,it's seems that we start a war of word
well , usualty as you know , the word Hell in Quran compain the word heaven "most of time", or inverse , because the Heaven is the opossite of Hell ,and as you know in Quran, God warning us to avoid the Hell , to get heaven .
that's mean if we make addition/combine the result is ZERO
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loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you that I could have avoided the comparison with the Bible and still make my point. I guess the OP's hateful and ignorant attitude towards Islam and Muslim got the worst of me. Just look at the threads he started - it's all about slandering Islam and Muslims.
May be it's not from him - may be someone is teaching him these things which he is just repeating. But either way, sometimes it helps to show people the truth of their own scripture so they realize. For example, you can't deny the following verses from the Bible(Matthew 10:34-36) - and there's nothing out of context about it. This is the instruction, according to the Bible, Jesus(pbuh) gave to his twelve disciples :
34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law 36 a mans enemies will be the members of his own household."
Hope you realize what I was doing. But anyway, I appreciate the reminder.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Trust me, I know how annoying it can get. anyway, your post makes more sense and is in better context in light of this. just like you, I was simply annoyed by Godobeyer's gloating and returned the favour.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
My comic book says that Jesus rode a dinosaur into battle during the War on Christmas. This is an irrefutable example of Jesus in war.
Pink Top Hat
Active Member
The basic fact is Islam was not spread by the sword.
Thats just anti Islamic rubbish.
Thats just anti Islamic rubbish.