Was Muhammad a good man?

[Farah]

The Messenger of Allah (S) said, “O servants of Allah! Verily, when the people of Jesus asked him to have Allah bring down a spread from heaven, Allah said,

I will send it down to you, then whoever of you disbelieves after that, I will punish as I will not punish any other being.(5:115)

the children of Israel split into seventy-one sects after Jesus. Seventy sects perished and one sect was saved. The prophet said My community will split into seventy-two sects. Seventy-one sects will perish and one of them will be saved.’ They said, ‘O Apostle of Allah! What is that sect?’ He said, ‘The community, the community, the community.’”
The Jews split into seventy-one sects, seventy of them will be in the Fire. One of them will be saved and will be in heaven and it is the sect that followed Yusha‘ ibn Nun, the executor of Moses. The Christians split into seventy-two sects. Seventy-one of them will be in the Fire and one of them will be in heaven, and it is the sect that followed Simon, the executor of Jesus.
Imam ‘Ali (‘a) said, “O Kumayl! Neither the Christians denied Allah, the Exalted, nor the Jews, and they did not refuse Moses or Jesus, but they increased, decreased, perverted and misled. So they were cursed and hated, and did not repent or accept.

It is reported that Abu ‘Abd Allah (‘a) said, “Moses told his people something that they could not bear, so they exiled him to Egypt. They fought with Moses, and he with them, and he killed them. Jesus told his people something that they could not bear, so they exiled him to Takrit. They fought with Jesus, and he with them, and he killed them. This is the saying of Allah, the mighty and magnificent,

So a party of the children of Israel believed and another party disbelieved; then We aided those who believed against their enemy, and they triumphed over them. (61:14)

And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them.(4:159)

Allah, the Exalted, blamed the Jews and faulted their disbelieving in Muhammad… He said,

Evil is that for which they have sold their souls—that they should deny what Allah has revealed, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers, so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath. (2:90)

Jesus the son of Mary is a servant and a creature. They took him as a Lord,

but they forgot a portion of what they were reminded of” (5:14).

And when Allah will say, ‘O Jesus son of Mary! Did you say to men, “Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah?” He will say, “Glory be to You! It did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to say; if I had said it, You would indeed have known it; You know what is in my soul, and I do not know what is in your soul. Surely, You are the great Knower of the occult./ I did not say to them aught save what You did enjoin me with: to serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when You caused me to die, You were the watcher over them, and You are the witness of all things. (5:116-117).

And He, the mighty and magnificent, said,

The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself. (4:172).

And He, the mighty and magnificent, said,

The Messiah, son of Mary, is only an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away. (5:75).

The meaning of this is that these two persons defecated, so whoever claims that the prophets were Lords, or who claims that the Imams are Lords or prophets, or who claims that those who are not Imams are Imams, we absolve ourselves from them in this world and in the other world....

 

[Scimitar]

When I raised this point on another forum sister farah, the Christians had their tails between their legs... the theology of Christianity is non existent. Its broken, fragmented, contradictory, and down right illogical.

God can defecate? Heck no. WHy would HE need to - when HE is "self subsisting"... the Christians will always falter on that point alone.... and there are so many others waiting to be explored...

... One thing I don't understand is why Christians never take a look at their bible(s) comparatively and see how contradictory the theology is?

And they claim its all the same message? Really? Where - please Christians, point to me that message which aligns the theology of Christianity across all denominations - and none will be able to provide it.

Scimitar

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am now thinking of poor Abu Afak. I wonder why Muhammad killed him, I doubt it had anything to do with him being Jewish

 

[Scimitar]

Seriously now, there was no Isnad for the killing of Abu Afak, it was a lie propagated by the Islamophobe & Christian missionary, Silas.

Nice try, but weak.

Surely, as an ex Muslim you would have read the seerah of the Prophet pbuh, and the story of the old woman who would dump rubbish on the head of Prophet Muhammad pbuh every single day when he passed her house.... one day she failed to dump the rubbish so he enquired about her, and got told that she was very ill on her death bed.

You know what happened next.

Don't you?

Or do I need to spell it out?

Do you not see that it is not in the character of the Prophet pbuh to murder in cold blood?

He only ever took up arms, or instigated a battle in self defence or to claim back goods and possessions which were robbed off the Muslims by the corrupt Quraish and necessary to reclaim back as the survival of the people depended on it, and GOd himself ordained it in the Quran.

Again, I say nice try Shair'ullah, but weak. you need to try harder to disrepute islam, but it still won't work.

You see bro Shari, on vigilant forums, I take down the entire forum with the help of Allah the almighty. Made quite a few Islamophobes run from there too, and as one of only a handful of Muslims on a predominantly non - muslim forum, I have earned their respect, due to my diligence.

Jazakamullah Kharian Khatihra - My Lord is ever bountiful

Scimitar

 

[Sha'irullah]

Seriously now, there was no Isnad for the killing of Abu Afak, it was a lie propagated by the Islamophobe & Christian missionary, Silas.

Nice try, but weak.

Surely, as an ex Muslim you would have read the seerah of the Prophet pbuh, and the story of the old woman who would dump rubbish on the head of Prophet Muhammad pbuh every single day when he passed her house.... one day she failed to dump the rubbish so he enquired about her, and got told that she was very ill on her death bed.

You know what happened next.

Don't you?

Or do I need to spell it out?

Do you not see that it is not in the character of the Prophet pbuh to murder in cold blood?

He only ever took up arms, or instigated a battle in self defence or to claim back goods and possessions which were robbed off the Muslims by the corrupt Quraish and necessary to reclaim back as the survival of the people depended on it, and GOd himself ordained it in the Quran.

Again, I say nice try Shair'ullah, but weak. you need to try harder to disrepute islam, but it still won't work.

You see bro Shari, on vigilant forums, I take down the entire forum with the help of Allah the almighty. Made quite a few Islamophobes run from there too, and as one of only a handful of Muslims on a predominantly non - muslim forum, I have earned their respect, due to my diligence.

Jazakamullah Kharian Khatihra - My Lord is ever bountiful

Scimitar

Lies by Christians? says who? I have heard many good and many bad how do I know what is truth and what is falsehood

Taliban think not the verse is a lie so why should I? They enjoy slaughtering those that mock the prophet along with many others unaffiliated with Taliban

 

[Scimitar]

I do not support the taliban - a bunch of extremists... are you one too?

 

[FearGod]

Lies by Christians? says who? I have heard many good and many bad how do I know what is truth and what is falsehood

Taliban think not the verse is a lie so why should I? They enjoy slaughtering those that mock the prophet along with many others unaffiliated with Taliban

The truth is in the quran and not in Taliban.
Show me just one verse that says kill who dare to mock the prophet.
Compare Al Andalus (the true face of Islam) before hundreds of years ago to Taliban (the fake face of Islam)

[youtube]bbTXRCbLArE[/youtube]

 

[Smart_Guy]

Yeah, some people keep using the excuse of Taliban's and 9/11's, and some others, to bash Islam and Muslims all the time, as if they don't know that Muslims around the world are 2nd biggest religious group that a thing or two or even a hundred, don't stand for or define Islam and Muslims!

I'm from Hijaz. I wonder how many of those people know Hijaz!

 

[kashmir]

Out of respect for the sake of this thread and to further my knowledge on muhammad, what better place than to read a debate with actual muslims and other supporters of muhammad?
So I did just that, read the whole thread, with an open mind and of no bias.

Throughout this thread @1robin did a very respectable job at providing many inconsistencies in what muhammad did, clearly showing he was acting on his own behalf and not of a supreme being.
No rebuttal was ever given to justify all of his actions other than to attack @1robin personally and to attack the holy bible.
It is said that the Quran only allows for war, when defending themselves.
Many of muhammad's battles were self started by him, and not in self defense of him being attacked.

Some have even tried to claim that since the quran was the lesser of two evils, compared to the bible and violence within it, it justifies muhammad's actions.
No, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

It's like the pot calling the kettle black, reading though this thread.
I wonder what excuse will be given now when I say that I stand by my original perspective that muhammad was clearly teaching from his own worldview and not of any Deity, if Deities even exist.
How you going to blame the media now, when it is your very words I have read and not the media's?

I never thought the day would come that I would somewhat agree with what Richard Dawkins said, paraphrasing him "religion is what is destroying humanity"

As the late George Carlin once said:
"You believe in God?"
No
Pow...dead!!!
"Do you believe in God?"
Yes
"Do you believe in MY God?"
No
Pow...dead!!!

In the end, I am glad that my time on this earth is about done, if and when Armageddon comes, its not going to be very pretty.
Don't matter if its man made or of Deities...
It's coming.

 

[FearGod]

Out of respect for the sake of this thread and to further my knowledge on muhammad, what better place than to read a debate with actual muslims and other supporters of muhammad?
So I did just that, read the whole thread, with an open mind and of no bias.

With no bias.
Do you think we are juniors debating here in this forum as to believe what you say, they are skeptic about the prophets then do you want the readers to simply trust your silly words.

Throughout this thread @1robin did a very respectable job at providing many inconsistencies in what Muhammad did, clearly showing he was acting on his own behalf and not of a supreme being.

Yes 1robin was great, he said that US was justified to kill about a million of the Japanese in cold blood.(you said that you read the whole thread)

No rebuttal was ever given to justify all of his actions other than to attack @1robin personally and to attack the holy bible.

Yes all pages were aimed to attack 1robin and the holy bible (are you sure you read the whole thread)

It is said that the Quran only allows for war, when defending themselves.
Many of muhammad's battles were self started by him, and not in self defense of him being attacked.

Explain how and put your evidences on the table.

Some have even tried to claim that since the quran was the lesser of two evils, compared to the bible and violence within it, it justifies muhammad's actions.
No, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

The quran is a guidance and not evil, but i think it is evil for the ones who want to spend all their nights with the whores,then yes the quran for them is evil.

It's like the pot calling the kettle black, reading though this thread.
I wonder what excuse will be given now when I say that I stand by my original perspective that muhammad was clearly teaching from his own worldview and not of any Deity, if Deities even exist.

That is your views which is meaningless.

How you going to blame the media now, when it is your very words I have read and not the media's?

Why listening to our words or to the media ?just listen to your mind.

I never thought the day would come that I would somewhat agree with what Richard Dawkins said, paraphrasing him "religion is what is destroying humanity"

Such as world war 1 & 2 :yes:

As the late George Carlin once said:
"You believe in God?"
No
Pow...dead!!!
"Do you believe in God?"
Yes
"Do you believe in MY God?"
No
Pow...dead!!!

So how Christians and Jews were living during the Islamic Empire,why not pow ..dead

In the end, I am glad that my time on this earth is about done, if and when Armageddon comes, its not going to be very pretty.
Don't matter if its man made or of Deities...
It's coming.

Armageddon or not Armageddon at the end we'll be under the stone.

 

[kashmir]

@feargod
Religion is man made, through out the history of man, its the same dogma rehashed and rewritten and always boils down to the same thing.
"We are right and all the rest of holy books are wrong and we will fight to the death for our god"

In the end, man is killing each other by the millions over fiction, and has been since the very first god was invented.

As I said, the pot calling the kettle black doesn't mean a thing, proves nothing.

 

[FearGod]

@feargod
Religion is man made, through out the history of man, its the same dogma rehashed and rewritten and always boils down to the same thing.
"We are right and all the rest of holy books are wrong and we will fight to the death for our god"

In the end, man is killing each other by the millions over fiction, and has been since the very first god was invented.

As I said, the pot calling the kettle black doesn't mean a thing, proves nothing.

Muslims fought in the time of Mohammed to empower God's commandments on earth at the time there were no laws but oppression and aggression.

What do you call the wars of today, for money and power and we have to be slaves for money and under the mercy for who have the power.

 

[Maldini]

FearGod where were you born?

 

[FearGod]

FearGod where were you born?

bethlehem

 

[1robin]

Robin your biggest mistake:



In the 23 years that Mohammed(saws) lived only 1500 people died this includes hes side and the enemy wherein the Bible commanded Moses(pbuh) to kill 3000 people in one single day.

Your not getting it. By Islam's own scholars and Muhammad's own companions word's Muhammad killed without Allah's permission. By your own words you say Moses killed based on God's commands. God may take life as he wishes, but a tyrannical Arab raiding caravans for loot, killing poets who wrote bad things about him, slaughtering tied up prisoners, yelling at corpses he wished they would come back to life so he could kill them again, and beheading Jews until he was too exhausted to continue is not the same thing. Numbers have nothing to do with it. On his authority it was done does. Read my posts again. Muhammad would have followers announce (unknown to Muhammad before hand) they had murdered one of his enemies. He would after the fact rejoice and claim Allah was pleased. Come on, man.

 

[Sabour]

Muhammad killed without Allah's permission.

Wrong

killing poets who wrote bad things about him,

Wrong

slaughtering tied up prisoners

Wrong

yelling at corpses he wished they would come back to life so he could kill them again,

Wrong

and beheading Jews until he was too exhausted to continue is not the same thing.

Wrong


Regarding the rest of your reply. WRONG

Have a nice day

 

[Sha'irullah]

I have a question for Muslims. Does Allah endorse slavery?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Here are some of my favorite ahadith by the way:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.")(Sahih Bukhari 4:52:261)

 

[Sha'irullah]

Here are some of my favorite ahadith and ayat by the way:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.")(Sahih Bukhari 4:52:261)

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Qur'an Surat al-Anfal ayat 12)

It seems to me that Allah has a hard time getting a message across without somebody dying. So peaceful

Should I also mention that Surat al-Anfal is literally named the The Spoils(of War). It has 75 ayat dedicated to plundering

 

[Sha'irullah]

Ishaq:316 “Following Badr, Muhammad sent a number of raiders with orders to capture some of the Meccans and burn them alive.”

Bukhari:260 “Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, “Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.” No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.”