• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Was Muhammad a good man?

What is your opinion on Muhammad?

  • He was a great man and those who insult him must be punished!

    Votes: 60 27.9%
  • He was a great man, but people are free to insult him

    Votes: 47 21.9%
  • He was not a good man, but we should respect him because I believe in respecting other religions

    Votes: 23 10.7%
  • He was a terrible man and we should condemn his awful actions!

    Votes: 85 39.5%

  • Total voters
    215

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
No, he does not!

You do not support slavery, but Allah does. To be more specific, Muhammad supports it:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: The Prophet said, "He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward." (Sahih Bukhari 3:46:723)

What is funny is the reward system because all that it does is encourage slaves to obey their masters. All that this is is the Divine Command Theory playing its part
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
You do not support slavery, but Allah does. To be more specific, Muhammad supports it:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: The Prophet said, "He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward." (Sahih Bukhari 3:46:723)

What is funny is the reward system because all that it does is encourage slaves to obey their masters. All that this is is the Divine Command Theory playing its part

Thank you for the heads up!

I think encouraging slaves in this context to obey their masters is an Islamic teaching to show appreciation to who does you good and takes care of you!

But it is just my thought and interpretation. I'm just a bystander not a religious interpreter!
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Thank you for the heads up!

I think encouraging slaves in this context to obey their masters is an Islamic teaching to show appreciation to who does you good and takes care of you!

But it is just my thought and interpretation. I'm just a bystander not a religious interpreter!

I hope you know that I have no issues with slavery :D nor plundering. I am all for the idea that the winner takes all as long as he or she remains civilized.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
I hope you know that I have no issues with slavery :D nor plundering. I am all for the idea that the winner takes all as long as he or she remains civilized.

Well since we are talking about slavery, Islam, I thought I have to share some ideas.

The first thing we must know that Islam didn’t create slavery. Slavery was already there. But why Islam didn’t stop slavery? Or did it?
Why slavery in such time? There are many reasons
1- Both financial and social security. When their country or tribe lost the war, they also lost most or all of their money as war booty. Being out of money and food, it becomes necessary for an individual to find the means for basic survival in life. Living as a slave would provide this.
2- Protection from hostile individuals. Even under the Islamic rule, you can still find hostile individuals who violate the Law and take matters into their own hands. An enemy family can be sometime in danger if they don't have a "protector".
3- Widows, Orphans, and the extremely poor of the enemy side need the financial and social protection from a Master. Back then, there were no governments with good social system that protects everyone. Slavery back then was that social system in special cases.
There are probably more points I can add, but I think these are sufficient enough


First of all let us look at a scenario where stopping slavery was done. It was done by Abraham Linclon. But did that solve the problem? I don’t think because there was still hate between both sides. Liclon didn’t deal with the problem; he dealt with the result of the problem. But I am not discrediting what he did at all.
The problem I was referring to was racism which resulted in slavery. What is he Islamic stand of racism?
First thing I want to say about the subject is that racism was the first sin committed when satan refused to bow to Adam ( or in front of him)when Allah ordered him to. It wasn’t the story of Eve telling Adam to eat from the tree.
Second, 49:13 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), during his Last Sermon in Minâ, said: “O people! Your Lord is one Lord, and you all share the same father. There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs. Neither is their preference forwhite people over black people, nor for black people over white people. Preference is only through righteousness.” Then he said: “Have I conveyed the message?” and the people declared that he had. [Musnad Ahmad (22391)]


Now let us look to how Islam dealt with the problem.
First, considering the treatment they were receiving, how did Islam approach this subject?
4:36 Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.
76:5-9
5 Indeed, the righteous will drink from a cup [of wine] whose mixture is of Kafur, 6 A spring of which the [righteous] servants of Allah will drink; they will make it gush forth in force [and abundance].7 They [are those who] fulfill [their] vows and fear a Day whose evil will be widespread.8And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,9[Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah . We wish not from you reward or gratitude.
Islam brought about a transformation in the situation. It taught that the slave was the brother of the master and that he had rights as well. The prophet commanded: “They are your brothers and relatives! Let each one provide for the brother under him with the food that he himself eats and with the clothes that he himself wears. Place not upon them any task that is overbearing for them. If you do assign them a difficult task, you must help them in its execution.” (Bukhari, Muslim)
Al-Bukhari reported that Abu Dharr and Bilal, the Abyssinian, both of whom were among the earliest Muslims, once quarreled and insulted each other. Carried away by his anger, Abu Dharr said to Bilal, "You son of a black woman!" Bilal complained about this to the Prophet (peace be on him), who turned to Abu Dharr, saying, "Are you taunting him about his mother? There is still some influence of jahiliyyah in you!'' (Reported by al-Bukhari.)
(jahiliyyah means days of ignorance the arabs used to live)
Abu Dharr narrated that the Prophet (peace be on him) said to him, "Look! You are no better than a white or black man unless you excel in the fear of Allah."
"Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke,he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"

Second, Islam provided means and encouraged freeing slaves
9:60 Zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect [zakah] and for bringing hearts together [for Islam] and for freeing captives [or slaves] and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the [stranded] traveler - an obligation [imposed] by Allah . And Allah is Knowing and Wise.
There are numerous sayings of the prophet which encourage the freeing of slaves. “If anyone sets free a believing slave, each of his body parts will be set free from Hell so much so that it will be the hand for a hand, the leg for a right up to the sexual organ for the sexual organ.” (Bukhari, Muslim)

In addition, setting a captive free was something muslims must do in some cases
4:92And never is it for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake - then the freeing of a believing slave and a compensation payment presented to the deceased's family [is required] unless they give [up their right as] charity. But if the deceased was from a people at war with you and he was a believer - then [only] the freeing of a believing slave; and if he was from a people with whom you have a treaty - then a compensation payment presented to his family and the freeing of a believing slave. And whoever does not find [one or cannot afford to buy one] - then [instead], a fast for two months consecutively, [seeking] acceptance of repentance from Allah . And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
58:3 And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then [wish to] go back on what they said - then [there must be] the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do.
5:89 Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find [or afford it] - then a fast of three days [is required]. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.
90: 10-13
10 And have shown him the two ways? 11 But he has not broken through the difficult pass.12 And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass? 13 It is the freeing of a slave 14 Or feeding on a day of severe hunger 15An orphan of near relationship 16 Or a needy person in misery

So let us get the whole picture now.
Islam approach is first to direct people how they must treat their slaves. It is as if they were brothers. So there will be no harsh feeling towards each other. Second, Islam has made it clear that setting a slave free is among the good deeds and sometimes a must do. So muslims were basically going to slave markets and buying slaves so that they would set them free. Instant buying, and instant freeing. Fourth, Islam only took war captives when the enemy is taking war captives only.

So Islam dealt with the problem slowly and wisely. Besides, has Islam set the slaves free all at once it would have not been fair to the masters. At that time, slaves were assets. It used to be normal. They used to buy and sell them. In addition, freeing them after such a horrible treatment was in place wouldn’t be a good decision to take.
 
Last edited:

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You do not support slavery, but Allah does. To be more specific, Muhammad supports it:

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: The Prophet said, "He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward." (Sahih Bukhari 3:46:723)

What is funny is the reward system because all that it does is encourage slaves to obey their masters. All that this is is the Divine Command Theory playing its part

That is a story told by Abu Musa Al-Ashari and he said that the prophet said so and so,but how can we know that the prophet said so and so and if the prophet indeed said it then why only Abu Musa had to know it why not recorded and witnessed by the majority,why the hadith wasn't recorded at the time of occurrence,why waiting for the prophet death and then after many years they started to put down what the prophet had said,if you asked me what my brother said during his life with me in the family house,i don't remember my own sayings then how can i remember what the other said.

That being said, may i then ask you one question

Is it bad if i asked a whore to live with me and then to marry her after sometime ?
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
That is a story told by Abu Musa Al-Ashari and he said that the prophet said so and so,but how can we know that the prophet said so and so and if the prophet indeed said it then why only Abu Musa had to know it why not recorded and witnessed by the majority,why the hadith wasn't recorded at the time of occurrence,why waiting for the prophet death and then after many years they started to put down what the prophet had said,if you asked me what my brother said during his life with me in the family house,i don't remember my own sayings then how can i remember what the other said.

You are making the Qur'aniyun seem better and better now :D. Edip Yuksel and Rashad Khalifa would be so proud of you.

That being said, may i then ask you one question

Is it bad if i asked a whore to live with me and then to marry her after sometime ?

I have no idea. I do not even concern myself in social matters. I have no sense of right or wrong when it comes to issues like these because I prefer being as far away from people as possible.
This is your decision.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You are making the Qur'aniyun seem better and better now :D. Edip Yuksel and Rashad Khalifa would be so proud of you.

I ain't making it but it is.

I have no idea. I do not even concern myself in social matters. I have no sense of right or wrong when it comes to issues like these because I prefer being as far away from people as possible.
This is your decision.

So slaves and masters are their decisions, why bothering yourself while you don't care about how the others choose to live.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Would you kindly give me some sources for that? I tried using the keywords "Ishaq 316" and got some blocked and suspended pages!

Dude you live in Saudi Arabia. I bet you got something like this:
alfarhan-blocked.jpg
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I ain't making it but it is.



So slaves and masters are their decisions, why bothering yourself while you don't care about how the others choose to live.

You are trying to end this debate too quickly because I never said I do not care about how others live I just do not concern myself in social aspects of life such as friendship, family or having a boyfriend.
 

kashmir

Well-Known Member
Dude you live in Saudi Arabia. I bet you got something like this:
alfarhan-blocked.jpg

I know that is not IE you are using :rolleyes:

BTW, why cant we help out people wanting to view pages blocked in other countries?
It would be super easy to do.

anyone want to see something that is blocked for them, let me know, I will reupload it for you.
Just PM me the link.
Forgive me if that is against rules, cant see why though.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Slavery or slavery ---
Is one of the origins of Mohammadi Shariat, < islamic law >--

The reason---
That God in Islam did not cancel Worshipers -
It's always to be with the wife ---
State says marriage ---
Two and three and a fourth ---- and --<<ma-mlkt- aemankm>>>

ma-mlkt- aemankm> meaning <Worshipers>>Women slaves.>>>>>>>>>>If you have four women ---
The fifth is the slave ---
Used to have sex with her ---
-Marriage is not necessary -
This well-known verse -----It is this verse must know the basics of the slaves of the social system in the true Islam
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
When God says that the slave may have sex with her without a marriage contract ----This means that Islam does not prohibit slavery ---It is encouraged slavery ---
Because a Muslim if he wants to have sex and has 4 women ----
What will he do ---
**** slave
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Muslim says that the word of God can work in all ages, a word of fixed ----
Word of God in favor of every time and every time
So the slavery also valid in every time and every place ---
This is the word of God, oh-- Muslims
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Women in war are considered the spoils of war
And the division of women between the victors
Mohammed took the Jewish wife ---
Because it is war booty with the Jews ----
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
There is something in the Koran calls to obey the Apostle
And not to outlaw the spoils
Is it permissible to accept this concept of the Koran ----
Women are the spoils of war ---
If there is a war between Muslims and infidels ----
The women are the spoils of war infidels ---



Sharia backward ---
Prophet of backward
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You are trying to end this debate too quickly because I never said I do not care about how others live I just do not concern myself in social aspects of life such as friendship, family or having a boyfriend.

So would you care if a famous business man married his maid.
Would you be angry if he made a deal with her as to live with him and to serve him against money paid to her and then he loved her and sent her to study and gain some knowledge and then he decided to marry her.

Do you think that is awful ?

I ain't ending the debate but you are the one failing to give a honest answer, and you won't give any rational reply,except if you are smart enough to play with me, so try harder.;)
 
Top