Was Muhammad a good man?

[FearGod]

Those words are only as good as the man who wrote them. Almost everything you know came from some other person, and most of what is reliable came from some authority. You have used authorities or scholars countless times. Why do you deny what you actually do?

I made it clear that i shouldn't believe a scholar just because he is an expert and i showed you an example for the Jews historians in denying Jesus,should you believe them because they are experts.

Then you are in real trouble. You have constantly used sources that are not your mind with just me. This is hypocritical. IN fact you have even done so in this post.

i use my mind to fetch for the truth and not what experts had said.
The history is recorded,some are false and some others are right and i am the one to judge for myself and not the scholars.

I do not like this verse either. However what you or I like or do not, has nothing whatever to do with what is true (I know you think it does but it is a fact that it does not). Do you actually even know what that verse is actually about and why it is so explicit.

you don't like the verse,then how you trust the bible.

I did not say that every single scholar was right. However you suggested they were all wrong so I will give you the same question turned around. All scholars say 2 + 2 = 4. Is it wrong even though scholars say it. It is your claims burden not mine. Let me actually state what I said a different way so maybe you can understand better. If every other factor is equal the majority of scholars will be right far more often that wrong.

Your comparison of 2+2 = 4 is a silly one.

All of us agree that it equal 4,but do all of us agree that Jesus is the son of God and he and God is one,and do all of us agree that the cow is sacred ..etc

Why are you saying what you know is not true nor anything I ever said. II am sorry if you made a claim so absurd as to reject scholarship. It's your burden to prove not mine to disprove. I will stick by what I said and actually gave evidence that proves it.

And i showed you that you were wrong.

You have used those same scholars you now reject. Why?

i deal with the information and not the scholar,i don't care about the scholar as i care about the piece of information.

If one million scholars agreed that the cow is sacred,should i believe them just because they are scholars and experts.

I have said that same thing several times and never contradicted it. I have no idea why you said this. The trinity and salvation are two separate issues.

I didn't mention the trinity here but i meant that some believe that Jesus was son of God because he has no biological father then God is the one who ****** Mary,OMG

They had faith in a future messiah the same as we have in a past messiah and they are the same person. Have you never read Isaiah?

i don't believe the nonsense.

I believe he is God's son. That is not the trinity doctrine. What are you talking about. Either you (like Muhammad) have no idea what the trinity is or are just randomly typing anything you can think of whether it has a purpose or not.

For me the trinity is a stupid thing and saying God has a son is nonsense.

Claiming what an omnipotent God can't do is far more destructive and ridiculous than being childish, even if I was (which I was not).

You don't understand what omnipotent means but i don't blame you as you only learn from your scholars.

If you say you have ability over everything,did that means that you can turn yourself to a dog if you wish to be so.

I notice you gave two videos full of experts in the same post where you claimed not to have any use for them. Which is true? I have told you I can't watch u-tube on this server. Tell me what the best claims made were and what you claim they mean and I will investigate them. Let me warn you up front I know a lot about this episode of history.

Don't you have a computer at home or youtube at your phone,but yes it is expensive,it seems that you have a limited downloads.

The Roman empire did not even exist any more in the west at this point and it was a pale shadow of it's self in the east. It had long before lost almost all it's military strength. Only one city in the east was still defensible and it took Islam (not Muhammad) a long time to even capture a half defended single city. The siege is interesting and did require a little military skill but most of what Islam did was against very lightly defended places and they were stopped cold and defeated the first time they ran into a few well trained knights in Spain (who they outnumbered completely yet still lost to. At Islam's greatest height it did not amount to a fraction of what Rome, Greece, the US, Britain, China, Japan, the Mongols, and even India etc... did many times over at theirs.

The Romans were kicked out from the region by Muslims,that fact was foretold in the quran and that confirms the quran is from God,but i don't care if you wouldn't agree.

However lets fantasize a bit and say they were strong at some point. Why in the world can't they wipe out tiny Israel who they outnumber by at least 80 - 1. Israel kicks the tar out of them even when they all attack together. Has Allah given up on Islam. I thought he fought on your side. He must not be much of a warrior but the God who said Israel would never again be kicked out seems to be quite the warrior and capable of doing as he promised.

Actually God wanted Israel to be ranked high and wanted them to be gathered in Palestine,that is already foretold in the quran.

When did Muslims together attacked Israel,the recent war was between Gaza which is a very small area and Israel weren't able even to occupy that small area.

Sura 59:14, "They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls.

Israel recently had built walls and protect their cities by the iron dome.

i guess if you are still young then you'll have the honor to fight against Jesus and al mahdi within 20-30 years.

Post textual evidence or links for any period in Islam's history and we will compare them to any one of histories truly great military leaders. I have to get. Have a good one. BTW where do you live?

i don't care about history,i wasn't there.
What i care is what i have in hand now.

a religion that says God has a son,and he killed his son to pay for our sins,doesn't make any sense to me.

If your historians and experts say so and you believed them then that depends on your intellectual ability

 

[1robin]

Then how come it's so easy for me to kick the butts of angel experts and historical Jesus experts?

Something about your claims just isn't making sense.

Anyway, bring your angel experts and HJ experts here. I will show you.

I have no angel experts and the only butt you kicked was your own. Exactly where do you even attempt to overturn anything anyone said about angels. Post the statement where this was even tried. I did not bring up experts on angels.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I have no angel experts and the only butt you kicked was your own.

Then why -- all around me -- is the field of battle strewn with hundreds of bruised and defeated butts?

Do you think they fell from the sky that way? How do you explain it?

 

[1robin]

I made it clear that i shouldn't believe a scholar just because he is an expert and i showed you an example for the Jews historians in denying Jesus,should you believe them because they are experts.

I never said you should believe any scholar just because he is a scholar. However only those that have adopted something that is not true need fear what the experts know.

i use my mind to fetch for the truth and not what experts had said.
The history is recorded,some are false and some others are right and i am the one to judge for myself and not the scholars.

How in the heck can your mind know what happened 1500 years ago. Your mind can and is used to decide what you want to believe. It seems you just choose to believe whatever is convenient. Your mind has no access to anything that occurred before you were born unless it gets it from someone else.

you don't like the verse,then how you trust the bible.

Because it is true. In Islam what you like may determine what you think is true (which is Muslim's biggest problem). I determine what is true based on the best evidence it is possible to get whether I like it or not. That verse does not mean what you think it does, it actually has interesting applications and is true.

Your comparison of 2+2 = 4 is a silly one.

Of course it is. Your claim was a silly one. I used a silly example from your silly claim to show how silly it was.

All of us agree that it equal 4,but do all of us agree that Jesus is the son of God and he and God is one,and do all of us agree that the cow is sacred ..etc

Well since your mind is the arbiter of al truth then why don't you just tell us all what Jesus was and see how respected your opinion is by how many believe it.

And i showed you that you were wrong.

Exactly where did that miracle occur?

i deal with the information and not the scholar,i don't care about the scholar as i care about the piece of information.

Most of those pieces of information come from experts in some field. I know Muslim's do not care about the sources competence and just believe what they wish to but most of us care about the competence of the source and what their claims are based on. That is why most of us reject Islam.

If one million scholars agreed that the cow is sacred,should i believe them just because they are scholars and experts.

That is a claim that is inaccessible to scholars and is not what I have been speaking about and you know it. There are no experts who can know if a cow is sacred. You believe pigs are not to be eaten. How do you know that? Because Muhammad told you that. I can prove you are wrong on top of where I already have many times. The next time you have to fly anywhere let me know. Throw the pilot off the plane and fly it your self. I will bet you can't figure out how to even get it to roll away from its parking place. The next time you get sick just heal your self? The next sky scraper that is built do it your self. The life saving medical device that is built should be yours. However what you actually will do is let the expert pilot fly the plane, let the doctor examine you, let the architect build the building, and let the engineer invent the device because you have no idea how to and they do, and because you do not believe what you are saying your self.

I didn't mention the trinity here but i meant that some believe that Jesus was son of God because he has no biological father then God is the one who ****** Mary,OMG

Oh come off it man. If you are biblically ignorant (same as Muhammad was) don't embarrass Islam as he did by getting it wrong. It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Mary begat Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. There was no **********ing involved. Another thing your God can't do. Allah can't do squat why do you think he will save you?

i don't believe the nonsense.

Then you are not doing what Muhammad told you to. He said to use the Bible which is where my claim came from to judge the Quran. You have not show anything was nonsense. You question backfired on you and you had no choice but to claim it was false (but not even attempt to show it was) because you had no actual answer.

For me the trinity is a stupid thing and saying God has a son is nonsense.

I do not care what you think is stupid. You must either show it is or waste our time simply claiming it was for no reason. You do not even think it is stupid. You think it defies Islam so you pretend its stupid to maintain the delusion.

You don't understand what omnipotent means but i don't blame you as you only learn from your scholars.

Are you ever going to attempt to show anything you say is true? I do not care what you like or not. Omnipotent means the capacity to do anything that is logically possible. God becoming a man is not only perfectly logical and possible it is also a grater act of love that your God has ever displayed even in myths. The Quran's concept of God is a pale shadow of the Bible's. It was only the best Muhammad could dream up.

If you say you have ability over everything,did that means that you can turn yourself to a dog if you wish to be so.

Sure does. There are two things involved here which apparently you do not understand.

There is omnipotence which means the capacity to do anything that is logically possible. He could become a dog but he can't make a square circle.
There is also will and purpose. He can do anything but he will not do everything because he has a purpose and will.

You have capacity and will. My God willed to become a man in order to save us. He had the capacity to do so. Allah apparently is too vain and proud to come to man and has never appeared to men (because he probably does not exist). My God shows up, your does not.

Don't you have a computer at home or youtube at your phone,but yes it is expensive,it seems that you have a limited downloads.

I do not debate at home very much. That is my peaceful time.

continued:

 

[1robin]

The Romans were kicked out from the region by Muslims,that fact was foretold in the quran and that confirms the quran is from God,but i don't care if you wouldn't agree.

Yes the few remaining Romans who had long before that lost their great legions that Muhammad and Islam would have been wiped of the face of the planet by, if they fought. The eastern Roman empire was a paper tiger that no longer had the capacity to fight anyone. In fact not one culture Muhammad or Islam has ever conquered has been a tough enemy. Every time they face anyone who can put up even half a fight they loose.

I will look at the prophecy if you give it.

They never conquered anyone that had a strong army.

Actually God wanted Israel to be ranked high and wanted them to be gathered in Palestine,that is already foretold in the quran.

Then why are Muslims denying the right to the land you say God gave them? Why do they loose war after war trying to force them out?

Why did Zaid say Muhammad said this: Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.
Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

Of course that is not convenient for you so it will be dismissed or ignored for no reason.

When did Muslims together attacked Israel,the recent war was between Gaza which is a very small area and Israel weren't able even to occupy that small area.

The same day they became a nation. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and troops from Iraq and maybe Saudi Arabia who outnumbered the Jews by 80 -1 attacked them as soon as the British (who would have wiped Islam out) left. Israel had 3 tanks, no air force at all, and no professional army whipped every one of them and took some of their land from them (including Gaza, Jerusalem, the Golan heights, and part of the Sinai. They gave them their land back and it was used to shoot and kidnap women and children from but Islam ever since. Islam was so mad about getting whipped some of them mutilated a bunch of unarmed people in a village on their way home. Do you really want to discuss Israel and Islam's wars?

Sura 59:14, "They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls.

Israel recently had built walls and protect their cities by the iron dome.

i guess if you are still young then you'll have the honor to fight against Jesus and al mahdi within 20-30 years.

There have been six wars and many battles between Israel and Islam. Israel has won all the wars and almost every battle and none have been fought behind walls. They have been fought in the Golan heights, Gaza, Eastern Jordan, and the Sinai. The walls are not for wars. They are to keep Islamic scumbags from shooting civilians and kidnapping children across the border.

I see you know little of Biblical or even Islamic Eschatology.

In the Bible. The Muslims attack Israel led by (maybe the Mahdi, it is not clear) they are assisted by either Russia or China and several western kingdoms. It appears they are winning until Jesus shows up and defending Israel kills everyone who is attacking them.

In Islam the Mahdi leads a bunch of nations who actually beat Israel. The claim Jesus is on you side is so ridiculous that I will not even bother with it.

i don't care about history,i wasn't there.
What i care is what i have in hand now.

No, you care a lot about history. You just do not know anything about it. You decide what happened and what did not based on preference not truth. However I will be happy to only discuss what is happening now if the past is too embarrassing for Islam.

a religion that says God has a son,and he killed his son to pay for our sins,doesn't make any sense to me.

You really have no idea what the Bible says do you. Even before man went bad Jesus said he would willingly die to save us. The greatest examples of love men know of are ones where someone gives everything to save others. We build them museums, give them medals, and call them heroes. God provided the most profound act of love in human history through Jesus. Islam is so screwed up they call the greatest expression love anyone ever knew, stupid. God did not kill Jesus, we did. Islam does not record any example of love that is even in the same ball park as this. Allah only loves those who do what he tells them to, Allah only gives you hat you earn, Allah spends far more time telling us who he does not love than who he does. That is not a loving God. That is a tyrant. I have seen entire Phd dissertation written on Allah's deficiency concerning love compared with our God. Even if I learned somehow that Allah was the only God (fat chance) I could find no reason to love him.

If your historians and experts say so and you believed them then that depends on your intellectual ability

If you get cancer or have a heart attack will you go to the experts or fix your self. I rest my case.

I notice you did not answer a single question I asked.

Do not take my comments about Islam personally. I can not figure out why but I actually like talking to you.

 

[1robin]

Then why -- all around me -- is the field of battle strewn with hundreds of bruised and defeated butts?

Do you think they fell from the sky that way? How do you explain it?

You really live in your own mind don't you. Come on, reality is not so scary, join me.

How has even your fantasies helped Muhammad at all?
If he has defenders like you it requires no critics to dismiss him.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You really live in your own mind don't you. Come on, reality is not so scary, join me.

How has even your fantasies helped Muhammad at all?
If he has defenders like you it requires no critics to dismiss him.

Um... I've got no idea what you are trying to talk about. Are you sure you've addressed this one to the right person?

 

[1robin]

Um... I've got no idea what you are trying to talk about. Are you sure you've addressed this one to the right person?

Quite sure. Is Muhammad going to be defended any time soon?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Quite sure. Is Muhammad going to be defended any time soon?

Beats me. I suspect he's a fictional character, just like Jesus, so I'm not interested in defending him.

Would you defend Robin Hood from those who speak ill of him?

 

[1robin]

Beats me. I suspect he's a fictional character, just like Jesus, so I'm not interested in defending him.

Would you defend Robin Hood from those who speak ill of him?

Then you are in the wrong thread.

 

[YmirGF]

Then you are in the wrong thread.

Now you're getting it, 1robin. It's all just deflection, oddly enough, from someone who isn't likely too supportive of Muhammad. Go figure.

 

[1robin]

Now you're getting it, 1robin. It's all just deflection, oddly enough, from someone who isn't likely too supportive of Muhammad. Go figure.

Oh I get it very well and have told them so countless times. I use them only to fill time and get a laugh. Our history and the lack of sincerity goes way back. I know it is a waste of time but that is why respond to him, to waste time.

 

[FearGod]

I never said you should believe any scholar just because he is a scholar. However only those that have adopted something that is not true need fear what the experts know.

How could you know if a scholar before hundreds of years ago was good or bad

How in the heck can your mind know what happened 1500 years ago. Your mind can and is used to decide what you want to believe. It seems you just choose to believe whatever is convenient. Your mind has no access to anything that occurred before you were born unless it gets it from someone else.

No,my mind choose what make sense and not what it likes.

Because it is true. In Islam what you like may determine what you think is true (which is Muslim's biggest problem). I determine what is true based on the best evidence it is possible to get whether I like it or not. That verse does not mean what you think it does, it actually has interesting applications and is true.

No i don't accept Islam because i just like it but because i believe it to be the truth.

For example Islam forbid me of committing adultery,so do you think men hate sex.
But your religion is much easier as you can make sins which is already paid for by the sacrifice of God's only son.

Of course it is. Your claim was a silly one. I used a silly example from your silly claim to show how silly it was.

You are defending your scholars by using a silly comparison.

Well since your mind is the arbiter of al truth then why don't you just tell us all what Jesus was and see how respected your opinion is by how many believe it.

For me Jesus is a prophet,not God and not God's child

Exactly where did that miracle occur?

which miracle

Most of those pieces of information come from experts in some field. I know Muslim's do not care about the sources competence and just believe what they wish to but most of us care about the competence of the source and what their claims are based on. That is why most of us reject Islam.

i don't talk about other Muslims,but talking about myself,yes i don't care about the sources but i care if the information makes sense to me or not.

One reason that i reject Christianity completely from my mind is that they worship a man that was a baby,defecating,urinating,is that God.

That is a claim that is inaccessible to scholars and is not what I have been speaking about and you know it. There are no experts who can know if a cow is sacred. You believe pigs are not to be eaten. How do you know that? Because Muhammad told you that. I can prove you are wrong on top of where I already have many times. The next time you have to fly anywhere let me know. Throw the pilot off the plane and fly it your self. I will bet you can't figure out how to even get it to roll away from its parking place. The next time you get sick just heal your self? The next sky scraper that is built do it your self. The life saving medical device that is built should be yours. However what you actually will do is let the expert pilot fly the plane, let the doctor examine you, let the architect build the building, and let the engineer invent the device because you have no idea how to and they do, and because you do not believe what you are saying your self.

No im completely convinced that the pork is dirty and disgusting not only because it is forbidden,why then adultery is forbidden,does that means i hate sex.

But yes adultery is dangerous and it is as dirty as eating pork,to me of course,but for you pork is a tasty food

Oh come off it man. If you are biblically ignorant (same as Muhammad was) don't embarrass Islam as he did by getting it wrong. It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Mary begat Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. There was no **********ing involved. Another thing your God can't do. Allah can't do squat why do you think he will save you?

Your God is all powerful and omnipotent,then why he needs Mary.
Can't God be a man without growing in Mary's womb.

Of course you'll try to bring silly excuses such as God wanted to suffer,God wanted to feel as a baby,feel love and care,like to taste the milk and other endless excuses that God should start as a baby and say,wa wa wa (means i need milk)

Then you are not doing what Muhammad told you to. He said to use the Bible which is where my claim came from to judge the Quran. You have not show anything was nonsense. You question backfired on you and you had no choice but to claim it was false (but not even attempt to show it was) because you had no actual answer.

Yes i used the bible to Judge the quran because i found the bible to be full of mistakes and contradictions and hence i believe the quran is telling me the truth.

I do not care what you think is stupid. You must either show it is or waste our time simply claiming it was for no reason. You do not even think it is stupid. You think it defies Islam so you pretend its stupid to maintain the delusion.

Trinity for me is a stupid concept,prove it otherwise.

Are you ever going to attempt to show anything you say is true? I do not care what you like or not. Omnipotent means the capacity to do anything that is logically possible. God becoming a man is not only perfectly logical and possible it is also a grater act of love that your God has ever displayed even in myths. The Quran's concept of God is a pale shadow of the Bible's. It was only the best Muhammad could dream up.

Why God needs to be a baby ?
Why God needs to grow slowly ?
Why God needs to die for our sins ?
Why God needs to preach for his father which is him?
Why God has to return to earth as a man not a baby ?

Sure does. There are two things involved here which apparently you do not understand.

There is omnipotence which means the capacity to do anything that is logically possible. He could become a dog but he can't make a square circle.
There is also will and purpose. He can do anything but he will not do everything because he has a purpose and will.

Your God can turn to a dog if he wishes,yes he can,sounds logic,maybe he loves dogs too.

You have capacity and will. My God willed to become a man in order to save us. He had the capacity to do so. Allah apparently is too vain and proud to come to man and has never appeared to men (because he probably does not exist). My God shows up, your does not.

Your God came as a man to save us,so what we are doing here,lets go to heaven.
What kind of love your God has,many are suffering on earth.

Is that your God doing this to us ?
Is that your God made us Atheists,Hindus,Agnostics ?
if he loves us then why we fight each others,why he keep the Satan to live among us.
Is that your lovely God ?
But no,it is only an illusion in your mind.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Now you're getting it, 1robin. It's all just deflection, oddly enough, from someone who isn't likely too supportive of Muhammad. Go figure.

Just curious... how does one 'be supportive' of Muhammad?

 

[1robin]

How could you know if a scholar before hundreds of years ago was good or bad

I compare what he claims with what has been claimed bu other scholars who are independent from him. I look at scholars who critique his works. I compare what he says to what I already know. I look at his credentials, his publication record, his standing in the community of scholars in the field. There are many ways. If your suggesting we can arrive at a reliable conclusion about stuff claimed by a person a hundred years ago then you should reject Islam because unlike Christianity it is the word of only one very suspicion man who never demonstrated his divine inspiration.

No,my mind choose what make sense and not what it likes.

Whatever. I can see what you do much clearer than you can apparently. Exactly what is it you know about anything that happened in the 8th century that you did not get from someone else.

No i don't accept Islam because i just like it but because i believe it to be the truth.

I tell you what. I will be respectful and say ok.

For example Islam forbid me of committing adultery,so do you think men hate sex.
But your religion is much easier as you can make sins which is already paid for by the sacrifice of God's only son.

Tell me which is the stricter moral system.

1.The Quran says adultery is wrong.
2. The Bible says to even look at a women with lust is to commit adultery in your mind and you are guilty of it.

The bible has far more and stricter rules in the OT than in the Quran and when Christ came he made them far more strict that than Muhammad ever thought of. Besides Muhammad canceled any moral commands he later found inconvenient or thought up a trick to get out of them (like temporary marriage for the purpose of fornication which was paid for like prostitution), or he said he was immune to them.

You are defending your scholars by using a silly comparison.

My claim had nothing to do with my scholars (who are my scholars anyway). My claim showed the insanity of what you said by using a insane example which it would have produced.

For me Jesus is a prophet,not God and not God's child

I have met him. He is far more than any prophet. In Britain darkest days in WW2. Churchill looked for some way to give his people hope. He found a legendary Christian named C.S. and what he said over the radio became one of the most important Christian works of all time.

Let him respond to you:

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
tags: faith, god, jesus

Read more quotes from C.S. Lewis

which miracle

Never mind.

i don't talk about other Muslims,but talking about myself,yes i don't care about the sources but i care if the information makes sense to me or not.

How do you know if the dates Muhammad is said to have been born on and died on are accurate without reading hat other people wrote and doing exactly what you deny you do. You were not there. Everything you know about it came from some other source. One date is not better than another. What makes sense to you has nothing to do with it.

One reason that i reject Christianity completely from my mind is that they worship a man that was a baby,defecating,urinating,is that God.

NO I worship a God so sinless, so concerned with us, and so loving that he was willing to endure my punishment for me. My God cared enough to step into reality. He came as a man so that we may identify with his example better and only as a man could he substitute for us. There exists no method for determining if that makes sense to a finite fallible mind. You were told it was not true and you just swallowed it completely. However and this proves you just adopt what you like regardless of whether it is true or not. Every single eyewitness to Jesus life, saying, death, and resurrection claim the exact same thing. 5 of them that existed at the time. Billions of us are living proof it is true. However you ignore all of that without a single reason to and adopt the word of one man who was not there and who got almost every biblical reference he ever recorded wrong. On what basis is one man who was not there better than 5 men who were there and billion who have been born again since then. No wonder you do not like experts or the best witnesses of history. None of them agree with you. There is no justification what so ever for believing Muhammad while denying everyone who was there, the billions of Christian who have met Christ, and the majority of NT scholars from all sides. You are doing so because you want to. You have no actual justification.

No im completely convinced that the pork is dirty and disgusting not only because it is forbidden,why then adultery is forbidden,does that means i hate sex.

Pork is not dirty. It is the exact same as beef or Chicken. The reason that pork was forbidden to the Jews is that at that time it could not be cooked hot enough to kill of a disease that can be gotten if undercooked. You prophet misunderstood this and prohibited it for a reason that does not exist.

Sex was not forbidden, adultery was. Your getting mixed up again. Almost every sin is the misuse of something that has a actual purpose.

But yes adultery is dangerous and it is as dirty as eating pork,to me of course,but for you pork is a tasty food

It is no dirtier than any other sex. It was forbidden because it damages the family unit and therefor causes harm. Apparently Muhammad was not close enough to God to know the purposes of things the Bible forbade and simply copied them and in his ignorance made up stuff about why they were wrong in the first place. Muhammad plagiarized at least 1/4 of the Quran from other sources that he apparently did not even understand or know what they said very well because he even screwed up what he tried to copy.

Continued:

 

[FearGod]

Yes the few remaining Romans who had long before that lost their great legions that Muhammad and Islam would have been wiped of the face of the planet by, if they fought. The eastern Roman empire was a paper tiger that no longer had the capacity to fight anyone. In fact not one culture Muhammad or Islam has ever conquered has been a tough enemy. Every time they face anyone who can put up even half a fight they loose.

I will look at the prophecy if you give it.

They never conquered anyone that had a strong army.

i said to you already i don't care if you wouldn't agree.

Yes you can believe that all armies were weak except Muslims were strong,and why i have to show you the prophecy while you believe that muslims were strong when Mohammed was prophet.

Then why are Muslims denying the right to the land you say God gave them? Why do they loose war after war trying to force them out?

Why did Zaid say Muhammad said this: Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.
Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

Of course that is not convenient for you so it will be dismissed or ignored for no reason.

Why to be ignored or dismissed ?
Didn't you say yourself that God is omnipotent.

The same day they became a nation. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and troops from Iraq and maybe Saudi Arabia who outnumbered the Jews by 80 -1 attacked them as soon as the British (who would have wiped Islam out) left. Israel had 3 tanks, no air force at all, and no professional army whipped every one of them and took some of their land from them (including Gaza, Jerusalem, the Golan heights, and part of the Sinai. They gave them their land back and it was used to shoot and kidnap women and children from but Islam ever since. Islam was so mad about getting whipped some of them mutilated a bunch of unarmed people in a village on their way home. Do you really want to discuss Israel and Islam's wars?

Why i have to discuss it,i said to you it is already mentioned in the quran that God will give them the power to be gathered in Palestine,so i won't disagree,yes they won and if you told me that they didn't win then i'll tell you that you are wrong as i believe the quran is telling the truth.

There have been six wars and many battles between Israel and Islam. Israel has won all the wars and almost every battle and none have been fought behind walls. They have been fought in the Golan heights, Gaza, Eastern Jordan, and the Sinai. The walls are not for wars. They are to keep Islamic scumbags from shooting civilians and kidnapping children across the border.

Whatever the reason for the wall,but it is as foretold in the quran there will be a wall between Muslims and Jews and their cities are fortified recently by the iron dome.

I see you know little of Biblical or even Islamic Eschatology.

Yes i ain't a scholar or an expert. :yes:

In the Bible. The Muslims attack Israel led by (maybe the Mahdi, it is not clear) they are assisted by either Russia or China and several western kingdoms. It appears they are winning until Jesus shows up and defending Israel kills everyone who is attacking them.

You are absolutely wrong,Did you hear about Saladin,still the Mahdi will be much greater than him.

China got no business for such wars.

In Islam the Mahdi leads a bunch of nations who actually beat Israel. The claim Jesus is on you side is so ridiculous that I will not even bother with it.

Do you have an evidence or proof that he won't be with the Muslim side.

No, you care a lot about history. You just do not know anything about it. You decide what happened and what did not based on preference not truth. However I will be happy to only discuss what is happening now if the past is too embarrassing for Islam.

What is happening now ?
prostitution all over the world.
infidelities
The spreading of STD.
Glopal warming.
Slavery
Crimes

You really have no idea what the Bible says do you. Even before man went bad Jesus said he would willingly die to save us. The greatest examples of love men know of are ones where someone gives everything to save others. We build them museums, give them medals, and call them heroes. God provided the most profound act of love in human history through Jesus. Islam is so screwed up they call the greatest expression love anyone ever knew, stupid. God did not kill Jesus, we did. Islam does not record any example of love that is even in the same ball park as this. Allah only loves those who do what he tells them to, Allah only gives you hat you earn, Allah spends far more time telling us who he does not love than who he does. That is not a loving God. That is a tyrant. I have seen entire Phd dissertation written on Allah's deficiency concerning love compared with our God. Even if I learned somehow that Allah was the only God (fat chance) I could find no reason to love him.

How do you love Jesus ?
Do you say "i swear i love you Jesus" or you kiss his picture

If you get cancer or have a heart attack will you go to the experts or fix your self. I rest my case.

That is irrelevant

 

[FearGod]

I compare what he claims with what has been claimed bu other scholars who are independent from him. I look at scholars who critique his works. I compare what he says to what I already know. I look at his credentials, his publication record, his standing in the community of scholars in the field. There are many ways. If your suggesting we can arrive at a reliable conclusion about stuff claimed by a person a hundred years ago then you should reject Islam because unlike Christianity it is the word of only one very suspicion man who never demonstrated his divine inspiration.

So tell me the names of your scholars that lived before hundreds of years ago and you trusted them of telling the truth.

Whatever. I can see what you do much clearer than you can apparently. Exactly what is it you know about anything that happened in the 8th century that you did not get from someone else.

But no way to know if it was the truth,a story of the past can't be proven to be correct.

As i said to you the Jews accused Marry to be a whore and Jesus as a liar,this is a fact to them,can you disprove this fact which is to them is the truth.

Tell me which is the stricter moral system.

1.The Quran says adultery is wrong.
2. The Bible says to even look at a women with lust is to commit adultery in your mind and you are guilty of it.

In Islam there is no way to look with lust to women because they are ordered to wear decent dresses,so no details for butts,chest..etc to drive your libido,but yes in other parts of the world women can wear sexy dresses that may drive you crazy,but Jesus had already paid for all your sins,am i wrong.

The bible has far more and stricter rules in the OT than in the Quran and when Christ came he made them far more strict that than Muhammad ever thought of. Besides Muhammad canceled any moral commands he later found inconvenient or thought up a trick to get out of them (like temporary marriage for the purpose of fornication which was paid for like prostitution), or he said he was immune to them.

Show me where Mohammed PBUH permitted what you call a temporary marriage,is it in the quran ?

There is no moral system in the bible as it is already cancelled by Jesus sacrifice and you need only to love him,is it hard to love him and to do whatever you want.

My claim had nothing to do with my scholars (who are my scholars anyway). My claim showed the insanity of what you said by using a insane example which it would have produced.

So you are denying now that you are the one who used a silly example to explain your irrational views.

I have met him. He is far more than any prophet. In Britain darkest days in WW2. Churchill looked for some way to give his people hope. He found a legendary Christian named C.S. and what he said over the radio became one of the most important Christian works of all time.

You met him and he was more than any prophet.

Your words means that you had already met all other prophets and he was different than them all.

What the differences which you found ?

Let him respond to you:

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
tags: faith, god, jesus

Read more quotes from C.S. Lewis

So what,
did that confirm that he is the son of God or to be God himself.

God is a creator,if i made a door,should i have a door as my only son.

That is nonsense.

 

[FearGod]

How do you know if the dates Muhammad is said to have been born on and died on are accurate without reading hat other people wrote and doing exactly what you deny you do. You were not there. Everything you know about it came from some other source. One date is not better than another. What makes sense to you has nothing to do with it.

i have repeated it many times that i am the one to judge and to investigate for the truth and not the stories of the scholars.

i showed you one effective example for the Jews stories about Jesus to be a false messiah,should i believe their stories just because they are scholars and experts.

NO I worship a God so sinless, so concerned with us, and so loving that he was willing to endure my punishment for me. My God cared enough to step into reality. He came as a man so that we may identify with his example better and only as a man could he substitute for us.

So you are a trinitarian believing that god came as a man while the father in heaven and both are one but the father is greater than the son.

What kind of logic is this ?

There exists no method for determining if that makes sense to a finite fallible mind. You were told it was not true and you just swallowed it completely. However and this proves you just adopt what you like regardless of whether it is true or not. Every single eyewitness to Jesus life, saying, death, and resurrection claim the exact same thing. 5 of them that existed at the time. Billions of us are living proof it is true. However you ignore all of that without a single reason to and adopt the word of one man who was not there and who got almost every biblical reference he ever recorded wrong. On what basis is one man who was not there better than 5 men who were there and billion who have been born again since then. No wonder you do not like experts or the best witnesses of history. None of them agree with you. There is no justification what so ever for believing Muhammad while denying everyone who was there, the billions of Christian who have met Christ, and the majority of NT scholars from all sides. You are doing so because you want to. You have no actual justification.

You believe the stories and your dreams that you saw jesus saying i am your lord,worship me or i don't know how and where did you met him,but my mind reject a man to be a God for whatever reason you may think of it.

God is different thing than us,human is human,dog is dog,stone is stone,god is god.

The fact is we couldn't see him similar to the fact that we can't see the air around us which makes us to survive,many prophets wanted to see God but it wasn't possible,his effect can be seen but not him,i saw his effect many times which makes me to believe that he does exist but will never come to me as a man or a light or whatever else.

Pork is not dirty. It is the exact same as beef or Chicken. The reason that pork was forbidden to the Jews is that at that time it could not be cooked hot enough to kill of a disease that can be gotten if undercooked. You prophet misunderstood this and prohibited it for a reason that does not exist.

i still feel it disgusting like knowing a woman having AIDS and ******* her by using a condom.

Using condom won't stop the feeling of disgusting as for cooking the pork very well won't stop my feeling and imagination of it as the a dirty animal.

Not the Jews who forbid the pork but the same God except if you believe that their holy book is written by men.

Sex was not forbidden, adultery was. Your getting mixed up again. Almost every sin is the misuse of something that has a actual purpose.

i know that sex isn't forbidden but adultery is,but adultery is forgiven already by Jesus love and sacrifice,keep on denying this shameful fact.

Your sins are already paid for,trust and love Jesus,that is your religion.

It is no dirtier than any other sex. It was forbidden because it damages the family unit and therefor causes harm. Apparently Muhammad was not close enough to God to know the purposes of things the Bible forbade and simply copied them and in his ignorance made up stuff about why they were wrong in the first place. Muhammad plagiarized at least 1/4 of the Quran from other sources that he apparently did not even understand or know what they said very well because he even screwed up what he tried to copy.

Continued:

What your proof that adultery was forbidden just because it damage the family's unity and not because it is a dirty and disgusting act by itself.

The quran is a great book which is hard for you to understand and it is hard for you to follow,many men like to have many girl friends to satisfy their Johnson and sleep with prostitutes and many men like to drunk and walk like moron and to do whatever they want of sins but they believe that all their sins are forgiven due to Jesus sacrifice.

i don't means you but the fact which i can see it nowadays all over the dirty world which you can't deny,just look around but i am in doubt that you can change anything because only great men can change a dirty community as the prophet did by changing the barbarians in the Arabia to the great Islamic Empire that reached Spain and the far east.

Cheating wives narrowing the infidelity gap: report* - NY Daily News

 

[1robin]

So tell me the names of your scholars that lived before hundreds of years ago and you trusted them of telling the truth.

What? Since I know the one reason YOU ARE NOT asking this is because you wish to learn from them I am not posting a hundred names or more. I do not even understand what your asking. Why in the world are you saying they must live hundreds of years ago, if that is what you meant? Historical evidence gets better over time if all else
is even. In what subject? There are names in hundreds of subjects. I can't list them all.

But no way to know if it was the truth,a story of the past can't be proven to be correct.

Historical claims (including every one any one in Islam ever made) are never known for a fact or proven. Historical claims are made on probability. What proposition best explains the evidence. Almost nothing that occurred before you lived can ever be known for certain to you. I use the best evidence and the best scholars to see what is the best explanation. Try it sometime.

As i said to you the Jews accused Marry to be a whore and Jesus as a liar,this is a fact to them,can you disprove this fact which is to them is the truth.

This one has an easy answer. Every thing that Jesus claimed was sealed as truth by the fact that God raised him from the dead. It was his stamp of approval on the message he gave. That was one of its primary purposes. The best explanation of the evidence is that he did in fact die and was raised.

In Islam there is no way to look with lust to women because they are ordered to wear decent dresses,so no details for butts,chest..etc to drive your libido,but yes in other parts of the world women can wear sexy dresses that may drive you crazy,but Jesus had already paid for all your sins,am i wrong.

What does any of that have to do with anything I said.

1.The Quran and the Bible both claim adultery is wrong.
2. The Bible (not the Quran) raised it to a higher level and said to even look at a women with lust is adultery.

If you think for one minute I would ever believe that lust or adultery is not common in Islam your nuts. They found porn in Asama's fortress. There are trials for it every day in Islam. If you wish to force women to cover themselves from head to foot because Islamic men are insecure that is your business but adultery and lust still occurs constantly. I was not talking about what Christians and Muslims do anyway. I was talking about what level of moral commands exist in the Quran and the Bible. IN fact that is what you were talking about and what I answered to. Quit changing the subject. Islam is anything but the paradigm of morality. Most pols show outsiders do not think Islam moral at all.

Show me where Mohammed PBUH permitted what you call a temporary marriage,is it in the quran ?

I already have. It is in this thread. I forget the Arabic name for it but just review a little. Even your own scholars agree that it was practiced by even Muhammad's companions, though it is not that widespread these days.

There is no moral system in the bible as it is already cancelled by Jesus sacrifice and you need only to love him,is it hard to love him and to do whatever you want.

The only thing Christ canceled was Hell. I can easily die if I drive drunk, a man can easily shoot me if I mess with his wife, God can even squash me like a bug. Christ cancelled eternal judgment not temporal judgments and in fact the Bible says this. God RUTHLESSLY scourges those whom he loves. He is harder on Christians than anyone.

So you are denying now that you are the one who used a silly example to explain your irrational views.

It was to explain the silliness your views not mine. Of course I deny what is not true.

You met him and he was more than any prophet.

Yes.

Your words means that you had already met all other prophets and he was different than them all.

There are no prophets it is possible to meet who are dead. No prophet who ever lived even if they could be met could ever do what Christ did in my life.

What the differences which you found ?

No prophet who ever lived was resurrected, can communicate spiritually if dead, can forgive sin in his own power, not one prophet who ever lived claimed to be able to save me or empower me to be born again. That occurred, no mere prophet has ever claimed to be able to do this. Jesus is no mere prophet. IN fact calling Jesus only a prophet is the worst possible conclusion to reach.

So what,
did that confirm that he is the son of God or to be God himself.

That was not the question asked. You are doing this yet again. You are taking an answer given in one context, stripping of the context it came in, slapping on a whole new context and crying that it does not work. Well duh.

God is a creator,if i made a door,should i have a door as my only son.

Who are you to tell God what he could or could not do? I can imagine the arrogance that requires. Christ was the most influential man in history, the only sinless man ever known, worked a hundred times as many miracles as you say Muhammad did, performed the greatest act of love in human history, is the only being who God placed at his right hand, everything that was created was created through him (not Muhammad), everything that has been created was placed under his authority, etc.... he is no door. It is disgustingly dishonest to equate the greatest being to ever walk the earth with a door. This kind of crap in my opinion will exact a heavy price when the judgment comes. If you are going to forfeit your only chance to be saved I would think you would have better reasons that this. I just can't believe this is the kind of crap you are wagering everything you have on.

That is nonsense.

What you said above certainly was.

 

[1robin]

i have repeated it many times that i am the one to judge and to investigate for the truth and not the stories of the scholars.

Then the next time you get sick sit around and investigate how to cure the disease. If you go to the experts then you are being hypocritical.

i showed you one effective example for the Jews stories about Jesus to be a false messiah,should i believe their stories just because they are scholars and experts.

No you showed me a claim made by a tiny fraction of Jews which probably not scholars to begin with. Compared to the other 95% of people and almost 100% of scholars who do not claim that. What were you even trying to do? Suggest no scholars ever know anything because you found a few Jews that said something else. The next house you build better be built by you then.

So you are a trinitarian believing that god came as a man while the father in heaven and both are one but the father is greater than the son.

I have said over and over I have no position on trinitariansim. However a council was held in Nicaea many years ago and 1800 bishops were invited. Only two claimed it was not true. There is no reason to resolve this but if there were you would be on the 1% side and me on the 99% side. Who is it that is biased and adopts what they wish to be true again?

What kind of logic is this ?

What you said (as usual) has nothing to do with the Bible, God , Christ, or the trinity. So Muhammad got it wrong and 1400 years later Muslims are still wrong. Nice work Islam.

You believe the stories and your dreams that you saw jesus saying i am your lord,worship me or i don't know how and where did you met him,but my mind reject a man to be a God for whatever reason you may think of it.

As usual what you said has nothing whatever to do with what I said either. I did not claim a single thing you said I did. Dishonesty is a bad foundation.

God is different thing than us,human is human,dog is dog,stone is stone,god is god

However God could become any one of those things. Let me change that. Any actual God could. Imaginary God's can not do any one of those things. With every claim you make Allah becomes less and less capable.

The fact is we couldn't see him similar to the fact that we can't see the air around us which makes us to survive,many prophets wanted to see God but it wasn't possible,his effect can be seen but not him,i saw his effect many times which makes me to believe that he does exist but will never come to me as a man or a light or whatever else.

The heck you say. He revealed himself as a burning bush, wrestled with Jacob in the form of a man, and became the most influential man in history. I have never claimed to know the trinity is true. However you do not even know what it is. Of course neither did Muhammad. Allah did not even know what the doctrine was so I guess he could not do what you say he can't. I never said it was fact but let me at least tell you what it is so you do not keep embarrassing yourself. 5 year old Sunday school kids know more than you about it.

1. God is one being.
2. That being is made up of three persons.
3. Beings have the same essence but can exist in different forms with individual wills.
4. God the father, God the son, and God the Holy spirit are three persons with distinct wills who make up one being with a single essence or character.

I did not defend it but if you are going to attack it. At least get it right. And any finite fallible human being telling an omnipotent and omniscient God what he can or can not do is utterly absurd.

i still feel it disgusting like knowing a woman having AIDS and ******* her by using a condom.

What you feel has little to do with anything I said and this is a disgusting example.

Using condom won't stop the feeling of disgusting as for cooking the pork very well won't stop my feeling and imagination of it as the a dirty animal.

So Allah told you not to eat pork because it would make you feel disgusting? I eat it all the time and so do most people and it produces no disgust nor can you tell me why it should or why that would mater anyway. I find English peas disgusting but that has no theological meaning.

Not the Jews who forbid the pork but the same God except if you believe that their holy book is written by men.

I believe God nailed the Levitical laws to the cross and instituted a new covenant with man called grace when Christ died as the Bible clearly teaches. Now if you still believe those laws apply to you then why are you disobeying far more of them than you obey. Again hypocritical. The Bible say the law never saved anyone anyway. If you want a standard that can't save you which you do not meet anyway then have at it. My God however gave laws that had applications. Once we got where we could pork well enough he dropped it because the need was no longer valid. There are over 600 of those laws and I would bet you do not obey a hundred of them.

i know that sex isn't forbidden but adultery is,but adultery is forgiven already by Jesus love and sacrifice,keep on denying this shameful fact.

Jesus earned what I could not. It is absurdity to suggest I can earn what I never could, or could lose what I did not gain by obedience through disobedience. It is still punishable in the temporal. God may kill me if I commit adultery (though neither he nor Allah does most of the time) but what Christ promised can't be undone by me. That is why grace can get someone to heaven but the law or obedience never put a single soul there.

Continued: